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Delo SDE 15W-40 45k miles Detroit Diesel DD13 #4939076 11/29/18 07:17 PM
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dustyroads Offline OP
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I already have a thread with 5 or 6 UOAs using Delo XLE 10W-30 but I'm putting this one up for Delo SDE since nobody else has done so. Maybe someone will be interested... I don't know.

The truck is a 2016 Freightliner Cascadia used mostly in OTR trucking. The two UOAs here are a mix of OTR and short haul driving. The previous OCI was ~ 58k miles with the last 11k being short haul. This new one is 45k miles with the first 25k being short haul and the last 20k being OTR. When running OTR, I pull for just a few companies, all of which require that I can haul near 50k lbs. That's all this truck has ever done, other than ~5% deadhead miles.

Specifically, the short haul business was based in western PA and included western NY and eastern Ohio. Primarily on two lane roads and loaded to the 80k pound limit. My truck is set up for cruising the interstates at low RPM, so climbing the crazy steep hills put a whoopin' on my truck. If not crawling up a steep hill, it was crawling down (common sense and by law). Many places in PA and some in NY where you make a required stop to read the warning signs and then maintain the (truck) speed limit of 10-30 mph going down. Those same hills are tough climbing when going the other way, especially since most of the time you're coming out of a town; already moving slowly.

Some general info for my particular engine:
Set at 450 HP (available 1450-1625 rpm)
1650 lb-ft torque (available 975-1500 rpm)
Makes 31 PSI max boost, 22 PSI at 975 rpm
When going down hill at 1600-1700 rpm with the Jake Brake on, it makes about 29 PSI boost.
Climbing hills at 1450-1600 uses 20-21 gallons per hour, at 975 rpm uses 13 gallons per hour.

This OCI:
340910 miles on engine
45296 miles
1885 hours (889 driving / 996 idling) (idle speed when parked is 900 rpm)
7090 gallons of fuel burned = 6.3887 mpg

No make-up oil, still full.

Milton Cat was the lab for these two samples. I'm sorry to the BITOG crowd that I didn't ask for TBN/TAN this time. I wasn't concerned about it for myself but I know it would have been preferred here for entertainment purposes.

Code
 
Odometer:       340910           295614
Oil miles:       45296            57964
Oil hours:        1885             1596
Oil brand:    Delo SDE         Delo XLE
Grade:          15W-40           10W-30
API:           CK-4/SN          CK-4/SN

Copper             10               12
Iron               29               43
Chromium            0                2
Aluminum           11               19
Lead                0                0
Tin                 0                0

Silicon             8                6
Sodium              4                5
Potassium          14               29

Boron              42               18
Moly              115                2

Nickel              0                0
Silver              0                0
Titanium            0                0

Calcium          1547             1436
Magnesium         711              828
Zinc              897              848
Phosphorus        706              711
Barium              0                0

Soot            0.61%            0.58%
Oxidation          31               25
Nitration          14               12
Sulfation          33               30

Water               N                N
Antifreeze          N                N
Fuel                N                N

PFC              0.34             0.38
(percent fuel content)

Visc @100C       14.5             12.4

TAN               N/A             6.09
TBN               N/A              1.9

PQI                7                6
(particle quantifying index)








Last edited by dustyroads; 11/29/18 07:46 PM.

2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 122k miles
Re: Delo SDE 15W-40 45k miles Detroit Diesel DD13 [Re: dustyroads] #4939097 11/29/18 07:35 PM
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dustyroads Offline OP
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I don't know how I managed to put the smiley face in the thread title, but... blush

In my other thread, dnewton3 said that "severe use" doesn't necessarily mean higher wear patterns (or something to that effect). As it turns out, he is right. I was expecting a considerable amount of extra metal in the last two reports, but nothing really changed. This run of 15W-40 has me wanting to try it again next time. I'm currently running Delo XLE (as I had for quite some time before this).

The reason for the shortened oci was a need for other maintenance on the truck. The light came on saying that it was time to get the DPF cleaned, so I headed to my preferred shop in Dallas. I got the DPF cleaned, replaced all 8 shocks, air dryer cartridge, DEF pump filter, new windshields, and while there....got new oil and filters. One stop shopping grin


2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 122k miles
Re: Delo SDE 15W-40 45k miles Detroit Diesel DD13 [Re: dustyroads] #4939105 11/29/18 07:40 PM
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Interesting. If you apply the factor for the shorter miles your iron wear was a tad worse per mile, but expected with the higher loads and, your aluminum reading was actually lower per mile. I have seen a few 10w30 fleets switch back to 15w40, and some the other way...and none could give me a scientific reason for it. Your oxidation was up but, again due to the increased loads (ie. your turbo likely spinning faster and turning its oil into super froth) it makes sense.

Thanks for posting!!


HDEO in Diesel Engines. No spark plugs here.
Re: Delo SDE 15W-40 45k miles Detroit Diesel DD13 [Re: dustyroads] #4939106 11/29/18 07:42 PM
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PiperOne Offline
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also....a little surprised the DPF needed a bake and blow at ~350,000 miles.


HDEO in Diesel Engines. No spark plugs here.
Re: Delo SDE 15W-40 45k miles Detroit Diesel DD13 [Re: PiperOne] #4939135 11/29/18 08:09 PM
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dustyroads Offline OP
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Originally Posted by PiperOne
Interesting. If you apply the factor for the shorter miles your iron wear was a tad worse per mile, but expected with the higher loads and, your aluminum reading was actually lower per mile. I have seen a few 10w30 fleets switch back to 15w40, and some the other way...and none could give me a scientific reason for it. Your oxidation was up but, again due to the increased loads (ie. your turbo likely spinning faster and turning its oil into super froth) it makes sense.

Thanks for posting!!


You're welcome! The truck has always been loaded to the legal limit (or very close), but yes it was run at 300-400 rpm higher than the usual during the short haul time. I rarely got into overdrive (only on the interstate). As you know, the winds on the high plains can make otherwise easy running seem like a never ending hill, so even in OTR use, the turbo can get a similar workout. It's just that out on the plains, I can cruise at low rpm while running high boost.

The DPF cleaning came due at 335k miles. Going from memory, I believe the book says that 350k miles is a good figure to expect the light. (?). I ran until 340k to get to Dallas. I think the newer ones are able to go farther before the cleaning is needed.


2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 122k miles
Re: Delo SDE 15W-40 45k miles Detroit Diesel DD13 [Re: dustyroads] #4939159 11/29/18 08:36 PM
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Linctex Offline
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Originally Posted by dustyroads

The reason for the shortened oci was a need for other maintenance on the truck. The light came on saying that it was time to get the DPF cleaned, so I headed to my preferred shop in Dallas. I got the DPF cleaned, replaced all 8 shocks, air dryer cartridge, DEF pump filter, new windshields, and while there....got new oil and filters. One stop shopping grin


YES, BUT THAT BILL........ frown duh shocked2


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Delo SDE 15W-40 45k miles Detroit Diesel DD13 [Re: Linctex] #4939186 11/29/18 08:56 PM
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dustyroads Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by dustyroads

The reason for the shortened oci was a need for other maintenance on the truck. The light came on saying that it was time to get the DPF cleaned, so I headed to my preferred shop in Dallas. I got the DPF cleaned, replaced all 8 shocks, air dryer cartridge, DEF pump filter, new windshields, and while there....got new oil and filters. One stop shopping grin


YES, BUT THAT BILL........ frown duh shocked2


Yeah..... frown. But it's the cost of drive

The truck has been very good to me, so I can't complain.


2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 122k miles
Re: Delo SDE 15W-40 45k miles Detroit Diesel DD13 [Re: dustyroads] #4939408 11/30/18 06:25 AM
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dnewton3 Offline
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Originally Posted by PiperOne
Interesting. If you apply the factor for the shorter miles your iron wear was a tad worse per mile, ...

NO! I totally disagree with you.


The Fe wear rates at completely expected, totally fine and actually very desirable! Wear rates are never "flat"; there is always some small amount of variation (hence, my UOA study, if you haven't read it by now ..... and if you haven't, then you should.)
The point Dusty is making is that despite the really hard work done, the "severe" service didn't alter his wear rates at all, essentially. Go back and look at his other UOAs; you'll see what I mean.
Any rig that can average around 1ppm/1k miles is going to last nearly forever! It's totally normal to expect some minor changes in wear; that's the variation of typical life. But the severe use here (backroads with heavy hill climbs at max loading) didn't affect the wear rates!

Go back and look at his former UOAs
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4786186/1
Now lets look at the Fe wear: (measured as ppm/1k miles, at the veh use mileage)
.63 @ 340k (severe factor)
.74 @ 295k (severe factor)
.69 @ 182k
.82 @ 127k
1.2 @ 67k
1.0 @ 29k
So, despite the heaving loading in this most recent use, the engine actually had the least wear rate! Although there are not enough samples to get an accurate stdev, it's perfectly clear that his average Fe wear is a tad under 1ppm/1k miles. I have not gone back to review all the verbiage with all the former UOAs, but it's clear to me that the engine went through a break in, and now it has settled.

The same goes for the Cu and Al; they tend to rise and fall a bit with use, but there's "normal variation" here, and no clear use factor rising to the top in this data either. These all saw a spike early in the lifecycle; likely just break-in wear occurring. They seem to have settled and are of little significance now.

Most any engine essentially has a preferred rate of wear and not much you can do (except for true neglect) will alter that rate. Despite all the heretical warning from OEMs about "severe service factors", I have yet to see any data that shows there's any reason to panic or even pay heed to such gibberish. Modern, well designed, decently manufactured equipment today simply does not need anything special to live a long, healthy life.

Dusty runs loaded 95% of the time; typically 50,000 pounds or more. These two UOAs posted here represent more WOT time that what he would see just cruising the interstate. His throttle factor was probably higher over these two UOAs than anytime he's been on the super-slabs. And yet, did the wear change for the worse? Obviously not.

Did grade matter here? Nope.
Did service factor matter here? Nope.
Geeze ..... how much better can some of you expect this to be??????? shrug

Last edited by dnewton3; 11/30/18 07:48 AM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Delo SDE 15W-40 45k miles Detroit Diesel DD13 [Re: dustyroads] #4939583 11/30/18 09:52 AM
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PiperOne Offline
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You read waaaaaaay too much into my comment. It's BITOG...I wasn't penning an SAE paper.


HDEO in Diesel Engines. No spark plugs here.
Re: Delo SDE 15W-40 45k miles Detroit Diesel DD13 [Re: PiperOne] #4940688 12/01/18 12:24 PM
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dustyroads Offline OP
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Originally Posted by PiperOne
You read waaaaaaay too much into my comment. It's BITOG...I wasn't penning an SAE paper.


It's all good. thumbsup It's just that Dave has lots of data that shows that there's little difference between normal use and so called severe, and has tried to convey that on this site. Despite Dave's comments, I was truly expecting an increase in iron and aluminum. Between the much higher average engine speeds and the constant swings throughout the operating range as I grabbed gears or down-shifted and the heavy use of the Jake Brake, I was certain of an uptick in wear metals. I was wrong, everything was as good as ever. Thanks Dave, I'm convinced.

I wanted to point out that the oil is in fantastic condition despite the full summer of heavy use (as well as the total hours in use). I'm still thrilled with the performance of the CK-4 oils. The engine manufacturer's tests go way beyond the API's tests, so I guess that is where the credit should go. I'm just so impressed with what we have available these days.

For the curious: I paid $880 for the DPF cleaning this time. I try to get as much as possible done in Dallas at my home terminal as they save me some money in most cases and they do quality work. They sent the DPF to the Volvo (truck) dealer there in Dallas for the cleaning. When I had a Volvo, I took my truck to the Volvo dealer in Vestal, NY. They pulled the DPF off and I took the filter up to Stadium International in Syracuse. That time it cost me $1200. In both cases, the cost I listed was for the entire job, including new clamps, gaskets or whatever else is needed.


Last edited by dustyroads; 12/01/18 12:28 PM.

2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 122k miles
Re: Delo SDE 15W-40 45k miles Detroit Diesel DD13 [Re: dustyroads] #4941905 12/02/18 06:28 PM
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dnewton3 Offline
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Originally Posted by dustyroads
....I wanted to point out that the oil is in fantastic condition despite the full summer of heavy use (as well as the total hours in use). I'm still thrilled with the performance of the CK-4 oils. The engine manufacturer's tests go way beyond the API's tests, so I guess that is where the credit should go. I'm just so impressed with what we have available these days.

What? You say CK-4 does as well as all other previous formulas? And the API isn't blowing phos-flavored smoke up our skirts?
Perhaps all the hysteria about the CK-4 is overblown?
Say, didn't we hear something like that about a decade ago? About how CJ-4 was going to be junk because of the loss of additives contrasted to CI-4+?
Sound familiar?????

Someday, perhaps way in the future, people will learn to trust the API, and then confirm performance with the reality of wear data, rather than listening to pundits ... Just maybe ...

Motor on, Dusty! That engine will outlast you at this rate! grin

Last edited by dnewton3; 12/02/18 06:28 PM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Delo SDE 15W-40 45k miles Detroit Diesel DD13 [Re: dustyroads] #4942196 12/02/18 11:20 PM
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Dusty, do you notice any fuel mileage change or other changes after the DPF clean? (real or anecdotal). And do they ever indicate how many cleaning cyles (off truck) a DPF can withstand?


HDEO in Diesel Engines. No spark plugs here.
Re: Delo SDE 15W-40 45k miles Detroit Diesel DD13 [Re: PiperOne] #4942618 12/03/18 02:49 PM
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dustyroads Offline OP
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Originally Posted by dnewton3
Originally Posted by dustyroads
....I wanted to point out that the oil is in fantastic condition despite the full summer of heavy use (as well as the total hours in use). I'm still thrilled with the performance of the CK-4 oils. The engine manufacturer's tests go way beyond the API's tests, so I guess that is where the credit should go. I'm just so impressed with what we have available these days.

What? You say CK-4 does as well as all other previous formulas? And the API isn't blowing phos-flavored smoke up our skirts?
Perhaps all the hysteria about the CK-4 is overblown?
Say, didn't we hear something like that about a decade ago? About how CJ-4 was going to be junk because of the loss of additives contrasted to CI-4+?
Sound familiar?????

Someday, perhaps way in the future, people will learn to trust the API, and then confirm performance with the reality of wear data, rather than listening to pundits ... Just maybe ...

Motor on, Dusty! That engine will outlast you at this rate! grin


Thanks Dave!

Originally Posted by PiperOne
Dusty, do you notice any fuel mileage change or other changes after the DPF clean? (real or anecdotal). And do they ever indicate how many cleaning cyles (off truck) a DPF can withstand?


I can't tell any difference in performance or fuel economy since the DPF was cleaned. I got horrendous fuel mileage over the summer (5.2 mpg) doing the short haul and extra idling, but as soon as I got back"on the road", everything was fine again. As the DPF cleaning was approaching, I noted that the performance and economy were doing great and nothing has changed since getting it done.

I don't know how many times a DPF can be cleaned. As far as I know, if it doesn't crack/break apart, it can be cleaned over and over. My understanding is that going too long before cleaning can somehow cause cracking but I'm not educated on the subject. The only thing I can think of is maybe over time, that there is more and more build up that is left behind after cleaning. Maybe eventually becoming too restrictive for continued use.

When I got my Volvo DPF cleaned, the Volvo dealer removed it and I dropped it off at an International dealer in Syracuse. The Volvo book said to clean it at 250k miles and that's what I did. When I picked up the DPF I was able to talk to the tech who took care of it and he said it was in great shape (not too much build up) before he cleaned it. I guess they can measure flow before and after? I can't recall everything from the brief conversation, but he said he liked to see a DPF come in early and often for easier and better cleaning.


2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 122k miles
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