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Re: New Surround A/V Receiver - Brand/model suggestions? [Re: 92saturnsl2] #4937561
11/28/18 10:31 AM
11/28/18 10:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,417
Middle of Iowa
DriveHard Offline
DriveHard  Offline

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,417
Middle of Iowa
Been an audiophile for years, and tried all sorts of receivers...Marantz, Denon, Sony, Pioneer, Onkyo...and every single time I turn back to Yamaha. Currently running a 9.2 setup with Yamaha's flagship...when I invite my "audiophile" friends over, they are blown away, and can't believe the imaging I can achieve in even 2.2 listening. Before this, I had both the Marantz flagship and the Onkyo flagship, and preferred using a mid-range Yamaha from ~2006 (although tests showed it punched well above its class for power).


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Re: New Surround A/V Receiver - Brand/model suggestions? [Re: OVERKILL] #4938139
11/28/18 07:46 PM
11/28/18 07:46 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,406
Georgia
AVB Offline
AVB  Offline

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,406
Georgia
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by AVB
I wasn't happy with the last Marantz receiver I had. It was great with movies but I didn't like it for music it was just too flat sounding. I replaced my speakers and gave the old ones to my dad with a 50x2 Onkyo stereo receiver that was way better with music than my 60w per channel Marantz. When my Marantz died I replaced it with a Onkyo and am happy, the first night I had it I blew one of the protection fuses in my old Cerwin Vega AT-12s.


That sounds like distortion. My DENON is rated at 120W/channel but it does nothing but feed the centre channel at this juncture. I have it paired to a Bryston 4B power amp which feeds ~280W/channel (and weighs about 75lbs) into my Paradigms. It can hit concert-level volumes and nothing goes thermal. Back when I had a set of CV's I made a similar discovery to you (protection circuit) but it ended up being distortion. Hooked up a more powerful amp, problem went away. FWIW.

That is possible, I was pushing it hard that day just to see what it would do. I don't remember hearing any audible distortion though. I bought that receiver used on ebay and it made me sick for a minute when I thought I had just blown a channel in the amp. I also have a old Yamaha M-60 power amp rated at 160w/channel @ 8 ohms and >0.003% distortion but have never used it on the CV's.

Re: New Surround A/V Receiver - Brand/model suggestions? [Re: DriveHard] #4938346
11/28/18 11:57 PM
11/28/18 11:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,206
Scottsdale, AZ
Toy4x4 Offline
Toy4x4  Offline

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,206
Scottsdale, AZ
Originally Posted by DriveHard
Been an audiophile for years, and tried all sorts of receivers...Marantz, Denon, Sony, Pioneer, Onkyo...and every single time I turn back to Yamaha. Currently running a 9.2 setup with Yamaha's flagship...when I invite my "audiophile" friends over, they are blown away, and can't believe the imaging I can achieve in even 2.2 listening. Before this, I had both the Marantz flagship and the Onkyo flagship, and preferred using a mid-range Yamaha from ~2006 (although tests showed it punched well above its class for power).


I've had two Yamahas: An RX-V590 and now an RX-V2095 that's almost 20 years old. Old, yes but still is amazing through my Paradigm 9SEs (Monitor 9s). I compared it to Sony's ES line and Pioneer, Denon, Onkyo and my ears still took me back to Yamaha.


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Re: New Surround A/V Receiver - Brand/model suggestions? [Re: Cardiobuck] #4938498
11/29/18 07:22 AM
11/29/18 07:22 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,003
South Carolina
alarmguy Offline
alarmguy  Offline

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,003
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Cardiobuck
OP,

The x.2 thing just means that you can plug 2 subs directly into the receiver. I don't like referring to it as .2 since no matter how many subs you use it is the same single discrete channel of sound.

Ignore the guy saying there is no reason to go from 5.1 to 7.1. In a home theater there is absolutely a reason. Many movies made in the last few years can take advantage of 7.1 and many more (Atmos and DTS:X). I run a 7.1.2 (or 7.3.2 if you follow the false nomenclature scheme of individually counting subs) system and I'll bring that fool over and show what two dedicated 20amp circuits of power sounds/feels like!

For $400 I would go to crutchfield.com and get the Denon AVR-X4200H they currently have for 400 off MSRP. Similar to the Denon 1500 people have recommended but with a few more HDMI inputs/outputs. It's a great buy at $400.

For my money at that price range, stick with Denon/Marantz, or Yamaha. Be forewarned however that in the last 10ish years ALL of the companies have started playing the game of being able to check off feature boxes and have cheapened out on the amp sections.



Maybe you can provide links with your post, as the OP wants to spend under $400 or so, many of the replies in here do not reflect that. Mine does.
He will be perfectly happy with a well made 5.1 but I have nothing against a 7.1 except these posts get out of control by some who buy higher end systems, yet a well put together and positioned lower end system can actually be and sound better then people who throw money at "Specs" and ignore common sense.

Click for a quick example

Another

I just pulled up the above two links for the heck of it, not endorsing anything and rushing off to work but 5the OP would be thrilled with the above and maybe have some money for some good low cost speakers which are available by the boat load...

As an example I just upgraded my center channel with this - its awesome... I paid direct from JBL $179.00 with free shipping and no tax ... off sale now, but there are deals out there when people watch.
At the same time we were happy with our $79 center channel Sony from best buy that we bought on sale last year ... this JBL rocks though.
Its now back to full price.
Click


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Re: New Surround A/V Receiver - Brand/model suggestions? [Re: alarmguy] #4938516
11/29/18 08:02 AM
11/29/18 08:02 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,417
Middle of Iowa
DriveHard Offline
DriveHard  Offline

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,417
Middle of Iowa
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by Cardiobuck
OP,

The x.2 thing just means that you can plug 2 subs directly into the receiver. I don't like referring to it as .2 since no matter how many subs you use it is the same single discrete channel of sound.

Ignore the guy saying there is no reason to go from 5.1 to 7.1. In a home theater there is absolutely a reason. Many movies made in the last few years can take advantage of 7.1 and many more (Atmos and DTS:X). I run a 7.1.2 (or 7.3.2 if you follow the false nomenclature scheme of individually counting subs) system and I'll bring that fool over and show what two dedicated 20amp circuits of power sounds/feels like!

For $400 I would go to crutchfield.com and get the Denon AVR-X4200H they currently have for 400 off MSRP. Similar to the Denon 1500 people have recommended but with a few more HDMI inputs/outputs. It's a great buy at $400.

For my money at that price range, stick with Denon/Marantz, or Yamaha. Be forewarned however that in the last 10ish years ALL of the companies have started playing the game of being able to check off feature boxes and have cheapened out on the amp sections.



Maybe you can provide links with your post, as the OP wants to spend under $400 or so, many of the replies in here do not reflect that. Mine does.
He will be perfectly happy with a well made 5.1 but I have nothing against a 7.1 except these posts get out of control by some who buy higher end systems, yet a well put together and positioned lower end system can actually be and sound better then people who throw money at "Specs" and ignore common sense.

Click for a quick example

Another

I just pulled up the above two links for the heck of it, not endorsing anything and rushing off to work but 5the OP would be thrilled with the above and maybe have some money for some good low cost speakers which are available by the boat load...

As an example I just upgraded my center channel with this - its awesome... I paid direct from JBL $179.00 with free shipping and no tax ... off sale now, but there are deals out there when people watch.
At the same time we were happy with our $79 center channel Sony from best buy that we bought on sale last year ... this JBL rocks though.
Its now back to full price.
Click






You make a very good point. I was not trying to direct the OP to buy something out of his price range, but instead just steer him toward the Yamaha brand. If you had $XXX to spend for a budget, the best thing to do is spend the majority of it on quality speakers...with emphasis on the mains/center and SUB! Then carefully placing them in your listening space and calibrating them can go a LOOOOONG way to a great experience.

For instance, my speakers were over ten times the cost of my receiver. When I "upgraded" from my older Yamaha to the newer model with the same speakers, there was almost ZERO audible difference...I would be stretching it if I said I could do a blind test back to back, and that is over 12 years of tech. difference between them. Once you find a receiver brand you like, its all in the speakers and setup.


Smile, it increases your face value
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Re: New Surround A/V Receiver - Brand/model suggestions? [Re: Toy4x4] #4938519
11/29/18 08:12 AM
11/29/18 08:12 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,417
Middle of Iowa
DriveHard Offline
DriveHard  Offline

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,417
Middle of Iowa
To further understand, in this day of age it is important to know the source content he is listening to
Originally Posted by Toy4x4
Originally Posted by DriveHard
Been an audiophile for years, and tried all sorts of receivers...Marantz, Denon, Sony, Pioneer, Onkyo...and every single time I turn back to Yamaha. Currently running a 9.2 setup with Yamaha's flagship...when I invite my "audiophile" friends over, they are blown away, and can't believe the imaging I can achieve in even 2.2 listening. Before this, I had both the Marantz flagship and the Onkyo flagship, and preferred using a mid-range Yamaha from ~2006 (although tests showed it punched well above its class for power).


I've had two Yamahas: An RX-V590 and now an RX-V2095 that's almost 20 years old. Old, yes but still is amazing through my Paradigm 9SEs (Monitor 9s). I compared it to Sony's ES line and Pioneer, Denon, Onkyo and my ears still took me back to Yamaha.



My receiver of choice up until this year was my RXV-659. What a beast!
https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/yamaha-rx-v659
If you don't need wifi, and fancy connections this is still one sweet sounding receiver! You can still see them pop up as refurbished units, or buy used. Mine was driven hard, and put away wet, and still doing duty in my bedroom setup.

If I had a strict $400 budget, I would go with this...
https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...-95-watts-networking-a/v-receiver/1.html

If I could stretch just a bit, this is a steal, a huge upgrade, and will keep you satisfied another 10+ years!
https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...110-watts-networking-a/v-receiver/1.html


Smile, it increases your face value
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Re: New Surround A/V Receiver - Brand/model suggestions? [Re: alarmguy] #4938609
11/29/18 09:58 AM
11/29/18 09:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,631
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,631
Great Lakes
Originally Posted by alarmguy
As an example I just upgraded my center channel with this - its awesome... I paid direct from JBL $179.00 with free shipping and no tax
Nice find! What speakers do you have as your mains?

I've got a DefTech ProCenter 1000 on my Christmas wish list. I already have ProMonitor 800 as my L/R speakers, so hopefully this center channel should blend in nicely.


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Re: New Surround A/V Receiver - Brand/model suggestions? [Re: AVB] #4938631
11/29/18 10:27 AM
11/29/18 10:27 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,167
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,167
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by AVB
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by AVB
I wasn't happy with the last Marantz receiver I had. It was great with movies but I didn't like it for music it was just too flat sounding. I replaced my speakers and gave the old ones to my dad with a 50x2 Onkyo stereo receiver that was way better with music than my 60w per channel Marantz. When my Marantz died I replaced it with a Onkyo and am happy, the first night I had it I blew one of the protection fuses in my old Cerwin Vega AT-12s.


That sounds like distortion. My DENON is rated at 120W/channel but it does nothing but feed the centre channel at this juncture. I have it paired to a Bryston 4B power amp which feeds ~280W/channel (and weighs about 75lbs) into my Paradigms. It can hit concert-level volumes and nothing goes thermal. Back when I had a set of CV's I made a similar discovery to you (protection circuit) but it ended up being distortion. Hooked up a more powerful amp, problem went away. FWIW.

That is possible, I was pushing it hard that day just to see what it would do. I don't remember hearing any audible distortion though. I bought that receiver used on ebay and it made me sick for a minute when I thought I had just blown a channel in the amp. I also have a old Yamaha M-60 power amp rated at 160w/channel @ 8 ohms and >0.003% distortion but have never used it on the CV's.


Sounds like you have the makings for an experiment wink


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Re: New Surround A/V Receiver - Brand/model suggestions? [Re: DriveHard] #4939002
11/29/18 06:51 PM
11/29/18 06:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,003
South Carolina
alarmguy Offline
alarmguy  Offline

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,003
South Carolina
Originally Posted by DriveHard
Originally Posted by alarmguy
[quote=Cardiobuck]OP,

The x.2...






You make a very good point. I was not trying to direct the OP to buy something out of his price range, but instead just steer him toward the Yamaha brand. If you had $XXX to spend for a budget, the best thing to do is spend the majority of it on quality speakers...with emphasis on the mains/center and SUB! Then carefully placing them in your listening space and calibrating them can go a LOOOOONG way to a great experience.

For instance, my speakers were over ten times the cost of my receiver. When I "upgraded" from my older Yamaha to the newer model with the same speakers, there was almost ZERO audible difference...I would be stretching it if I said I could do a blind test back to back, and that is over 12 years of tech. difference between them. Once you find a receiver brand you like, its all in the speakers and setup.


Well said and I agree. though of course if you truly go the exotic speaker route just make sure the amp is of good quality if your in the 2 to 4 Ohm range..
We agree on Yamaha too, though honestly, there are a number of other brands out there as well right now offering good discounts, such as Pioneer Elite and some Sony Models.

As well as Onyko and the others, only thing that bothers me a little now, some of the "others' have been bought, sold and traded so your not sure what the brand is delivering anymore.
Its why I still like the Yamaha name, but not stuck on it, if a good Sony or Pioneer or any others with super good reviews and specs came along, I would consider. We are happy with our Yami though, surpassed all expectations.



Last edited by alarmguy; 11/29/18 06:52 PM.

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Re: New Surround A/V Receiver - Brand/model suggestions? [Re: Quattro Pete] #4939018
11/29/18 07:05 PM
11/29/18 07:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,003
South Carolina
alarmguy Offline
alarmguy  Offline

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,003
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by alarmguy
As an example I just upgraded my center channel with this - its awesome... I paid direct from JBL $179.00 with free shipping and no tax
Nice find! What speakers do you have as your mains?

I've got a DefTech ProCenter 1000 on my Christmas wish list. I already have ProMonitor 800 as my L/R speakers, so hopefully this center channel should blend in nicely.


Yes, happy with our find on the JBL and very impressed the last couple days of using it, we like crisp clear sound and the biggest surprise is the tight clean bass from such little speakers. In addition our Yami system does have a separate powered sub and yami rear surrounds.
It was a no brainer at that price, no tax, free ship and get this, free return shipping too, you have 60 days to try them out. I was just about to drop $336 on a Klipsch center channel and I am glad I didnt.

My mains are Paradigm, I have had them for up to two decades? They were in storage for about 10 years after moving south, for the heck of it I removed our Main Yamaha speakers from our Mid to low priced Yami A/V receiver and hooked them up about a year ago.
I (and my wife) were blown away all over again by their sound. I was at the point of getting rid of them, not even knowing if they would work, woofer rubber surrounds still seem like new, glad I didnt and quite honestly I dont know but, if the day ever comes to give me an excuse ... well, then out they will go and possibly check out more of the JBLs for mains.
We like the JBL sound, not people who like overly warm sound, realistic vocals/ make and female along with crisp sharp sound is what we enjoy.

Ok, so the Paradigm Mains, only frustrating thing is I do not know the model number, some time ago the label came off the back of the speaker and not sure where I saved it.
The reason I bought them a long time ago was that Stereo Review Magazine and some others had glowing reviews on them, they were blow away by the sound, comparing them to speakers far more expensive, if I remember at the time they were around $440.00. I consider myself a "value" buyer, I look for value. Anyway, between the Paradigm mains, JBL Center and Yami rear surrounds, our great room lights up with sound/music soundtracks/movies.
Its a rather large room but not overly so, yet our ceilings in this room are 16 feet high and we are in awe sometimes at the sound when watching blu ray ect. plus we just replaced our 58 inch Samaung with a 65 inch Sony X900F, we are blown away by the images this TV delivers.

For others reading this, our system is very modest in cost and good sound quality can be done with research and shopping and patience. Though its not as easy as it used to be, so many brands are just brand names now owned by some huge company only interested in returns for their stockholders but research is the key.

Ps, only reason they are on the floor is we just bought the 65 inch Sony TV, speakers were previously ear level with our 58 inch Samsung which is now gone, the 65 Sony makes them look a bit crowded and have ordered lower stands.
If the Paradigm didnt sound so good and in such good shape we MIGHT have been tempted to watch sales for small towers, possibly even JBLs at this point.

IMG_20181129_191326.jpgIMG_20181129_191307.jpg
Last edited by alarmguy; 11/29/18 07:34 PM.

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Re: New Surround A/V Receiver - Brand/model suggestions? [Re: alarmguy] #4939042
11/29/18 07:32 PM
11/29/18 07:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,631
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline

Joined: Oct 2002
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Great Lakes
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Ok, so the Paradigm Mains, only frustrating thing is I do not know the model number
Post a picture and I'm sure someone will be able to identify them.

I always wanted to try Paradigms, but stars just never aligned and despite owning a lot of speakers, I always ended up with something else for one reason or another... Monitor Audio, Jamo, PSB, DefTech, Polk, Mission... maybe one of these days it'll be Paradigm's turn. smile

There are some nice Polk S20 bookshelves at a good price on Amazon right now, but I have too many speakers as it is. Majority of my listening is in front of a computer these days, and my PSB Alpha B speakers already look huge on my desk, and these Polks are even bigger.


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Re: New Surround A/V Receiver - Brand/model suggestions? [Re: alarmguy] #4939047
11/29/18 07:38 PM
11/29/18 07:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,631
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline

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Great Lakes
Originally Posted by alarmguy

[Linked Image]

OK, these look like Monitor 3se MkIII:
http://stereonomono.blogspot.com/2010/09/paradigm-3se-mkiii.html




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Re: New Surround A/V Receiver - Brand/model suggestions? [Re: Quattro Pete] #4939050
11/29/18 07:40 PM
11/29/18 07:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,003
South Carolina
alarmguy Offline
alarmguy  Offline

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South Carolina
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Ok, so the Paradigm Mains, only frustrating thing is I do not know the model number
Post a picture and I'm sure someone will be able to identify them.

I always wanted to try Paradigms, but stars just never aligned and despite owning a lot of speakers, I always ended up with something else for one reason or another... Monitor Audio, Jamo, PSB, DefTech, Polk, Mission... maybe one of these days it'll be Paradigm's turn. smile

There are some nice Polk S20 bookshelves at a good price on Amazon right now, but I have too many speakers as it is. Majority of my listening is in front of a computer these days, and my PSB Alpha B speakers already look huge on my desk, and these Polks are even bigger.


ahh ... yes, I also had Missions tweeter was in the middle, below the woofer and above the passive woofer, before the Paradigms, now that I think of it, maybe these arent as old as I thought, I forgot about the Missions and before those were Boston Acoustics.

BTW the first line in my other post should have been = "biggest surprise is the tight clean bass from a center channel speaker"

and sure you saw the photo above as I posted it after your reply, just in time before the edit option timed out.


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Re: New Surround A/V Receiver - Brand/model suggestions? [Re: Quattro Pete] #4939053
11/29/18 07:47 PM
11/29/18 07:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,003
South Carolina
alarmguy Offline
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South Carolina
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by alarmguy


OK, these look like Monitor 5se v2:

https://www.usedvictoria.com/classi...phile-Stereo-834-2-Way-Canadian_29387317




Yes, looks like you found them, as far as the exact model, I cant be sure, there were two identical speakers that year, one was just a little bit less money and the ones I bought were one model number up for maybe $50 more, I cant remember exactly the difference, drivers may have been the same but maybe the one model up that I bought had binding posts and removable grills? Looks like those might be the ones though. Actually I am sure, thanks!

Last edited by alarmguy; 11/29/18 07:50 PM.

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Re: New Surround A/V Receiver - Brand/model suggestions? [Re: alarmguy] #4939063
11/29/18 08:08 PM
11/29/18 08:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,631
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline

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Great Lakes
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by alarmguy


OK, these look like Monitor 5se v2:

https://www.usedvictoria.com/classi...phile-Stereo-834-2-Way-Canadian_29387317




Yes, looks like you found them, as far as the exact model, I cant be sure, there were two identical speakers that year, one was just a little bit less money and the ones I bought were one model number up for maybe $50 more, I cant remember exactly the difference, drivers may have been the same but maybe the one model up that I bought had binding posts and removable grills? Looks like those might be the ones though. Actually I am sure, thanks!

I edited my post. I believe they are actually Monitor 3se MkIII:
http://stereonomono.blogspot.com/2010/09/paradigm-3se-mkiii.html


Quote
ahh ... yes, I also had Missions tweeter was in the middle, below the woofer and above the passive woofer,
Something like that. I still have these little ones in storage somewhere. They used to be my surround speakers at one point in time.

[Linked Image]


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