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Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters #492920
08/05/04 09:26 AM
08/05/04 09:26 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 97
OH
steiner43511 Offline
steiner43511  Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 97
OH
how come a fram filter wasn't tested?

Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters #492921
08/05/04 07:26 PM
08/05/04 07:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 335
Owego, NY
Bill Plock Offline OP
Bill Plock  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 335
Owego, NY
00 scrub,

Individual members at the TheDieselplace.com forum provided popular brands of filters for the Duramax. The basic conclusion I draw form this study is that paper filters catch the most dirt but oiled foam or gauze filters flow better. Also, (IMHO) for stock engine configurations, paper filters provide more than enough air flow. Some will also debate that paper provides enough flow in performance applications (see the DieselPlace thread).
--------------------------

quote:
Originally posted by Mike:
The correct filter number is A1518C, NOT A1618C . The Duramax does not use a special filter

Mike,

I respectfully disagree... The Duramax does require the A1618C which is a different filter than what's in the gasoline powered GM trucks. You are correct that the A1518C will fit the Duramax air box but the A1618C is specified for the Duramax. Also, the Duramax comes with a separate Diesel Users Manual that details the unique filter requirements for the Duramax.

See the following ACDelco.com links for more info.

A1A1618C filter usage
A1A1518C filter usage
---------------------------

steiner43511,
Teststand, the company who performed the test, was unable to test FRAM filters due to a conflict of interest (see the link to the first post for more info).

[Smile]

[ August 06, 2004, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: Bill Plock ]

Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters #492922
08/05/04 08:29 PM
08/05/04 08:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,872
MN
T-Keith Offline
T-Keith  Offline
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,872
MN
Usually for the trucks ACdelco has two filters available. On the box it lists both with one as the "for dusty conditions" filter. The only difference is pleat numbers.

-T

Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters #492923
08/06/04 02:50 AM
08/06/04 02:50 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 243
NY
RedWolf4000 Offline
RedWolf4000  Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 243
NY
[Roll Eyes]

I must say this test seems a little off, why was a defective puralator used? That gives us false results.

The dirt that passes through the filter gets flushed out with the oil, and lets say you change your oil 4 times before the air filter meets its capacity for replacement/cleaning, well then there is not much difference at all is there. I dont see why you wouldnt want to let your engine breathe easier, when the capcity tests are irrelivant due to oil changes through the filters life. Even the worst efficent filter, the K&N, is at a >3% chance of contamination, thats hardly anything, and you gain air flow, which would be a better trade off in MPG and engine life.

There are way to many variables to call the results of this test facts.

Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters #492924
08/06/04 04:04 AM
08/06/04 04:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 12,385
Northern CA
XS650 Offline
XS650  Offline
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 12,385
Northern CA
quote:
Originally posted by RedWolf4000:
[Roll Eyes]

The dirt that passes through the filter gets flushed out with the oil, and lets say you change your oil 4 times before the air filter meets its capacity for replacement/cleaning, well then there is not much difference at all is there. I dont see why you wouldnt want to let your engine breathe easier, when the capcity tests are irrelivant due to oil changes through the filters life. Even the worst efficency filter, the K&N, is at a >3% chance of contamination, thats hardly anything, and you gain air flow, which would be a better trade off in MPG and engine life.

The AC stopped 99.93% of the crud, in other words it let 0.07% of the crud through. The K&N stopped 96.8% of the crud, in other words it let 3.2% of the crud through.

3.2/.07 = 45.7 timers as much crud was let through the K&N. The percentages aren't probablities... they show what percentage of the dirt that gets to the filter gets through it. 3.2% of a lot of dust is still a lot of dust.

The Amsoil, UNI, K&N filters had the most restriction of any of the filters when they got dirty. They were only low flow filters as long as they were clean! So much for K$N's claim to fame that they have more dirt capacity than a paper filter. K$N didn't even come close to the AC in dirt capacity, they weren't even in the same county [LOL!]

Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters #492925
08/06/04 05:32 AM
08/06/04 05:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,117
Coastal South Carolina
edwardh1 Offline
edwardh1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,117
Coastal South Carolina
If there ever was a test that should have included a Fram, and a purolater with a good seal, this was it

Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters #492926
08/06/04 08:55 AM
08/06/04 08:55 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 243
NY
RedWolf4000 Offline
RedWolf4000  Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 243
NY
Isnt it true that these small particles that may get by your air filter are burnt off in the combustion chamber?? When the air/fuel mix occurs?? How is it possible for any of these small percentages of dirt to harm your engine?

Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters #492927
08/06/04 03:08 PM
08/06/04 03:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,117
Coastal South Carolina
edwardh1 Offline
edwardh1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,117
Coastal South Carolina
Dirt (small rocks), burn?

Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters #492928
08/06/04 06:34 PM
08/06/04 06:34 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 243
NY
RedWolf4000 Offline
RedWolf4000  Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 243
NY
Who says dirt is small rocks though? Dirt is a number of things, mainly Wood.

Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters #492929
08/07/04 04:42 AM
08/07/04 04:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,852
the antipodes
tdi-rick Offline
tdi-rick  Offline
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,852
the antipodes
interesting comment by the K&N employee very late in the thread where he questioned the feed rate of dust.

It appears that, to speed the test up, the feed rate of dust has been accelerated.
In this test they used a feed rate of 9.5g/hr, and the K&N guy reckons they (K&N) only use 0.04g/hr.
Another supposed lab tech chimmed in that it isn't uncommon to see dust tests lasting for days, and this test seemed a little accelerated. Another K&N stooge [I dont know]

Any thoughts on whether the feed rate would change overall efficiencies ? although rankings probably wouldn't alter.

Rick.
who uses a Donaldson element.

Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters #492930
08/07/04 06:56 PM
08/07/04 06:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,013
USA-Michigan
Mike_dup1 Offline
Mike_dup1  Offline
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,013
USA-Michigan
What I find interesting is that with one test people will jump on the bandwagon, believe hook line and sinker. Why would someone give away $15,000 in testing for this? Maybe the K&N guy is on to something, that is being pushed by a competitor. What about all those tests for Prolong, Volcano. Slick 50 etc, they all showed the results the tester wanted people to see.


I have used one of those filters some condemn for over 20 yrs and guess what? Not one problem with anything, so its much ado about nothing with all the testing. Sometimes all they are comparing is a thimble full of dust over 100,000 miles of use. Also notice how some posters get po'd over this. Its just flys in the face of reason. They have been using something for a long time and now someone posts this test and they throw it out and get rilled up? Unbelievable.


Also, I get the impression that SPICER has a personal vendetta against K&N. Thats the feeling I get.

Thens there the guy complaining that his foam filter is clogged in 7-8000 miles. wtf-That proof that it keeping the dirt out but he sees it as a negative? He is going back to paper so his filter stays cleaner? Say what?

[ August 08, 2004, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: Mike ]

Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters #492931
08/07/04 07:33 PM
08/07/04 07:33 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 243
NY
RedWolf4000 Offline
RedWolf4000  Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 243
NY
Well put Mike. You cannot go believing every "Test" result you hear. The results on the back of the box/case oft he product you are buying are probablly more accurate. Anyone remember Motor-Up?? The stuff you could use in your engine with no motor oil in it!! Those test results were pretty inacurate i must say.

I also cannot understand why people switch back to paper after using there cotton or foam filter for a couple of years. They seal much better for starters, and i believe that they filter much better. So many people complain about there Cotton or Foam fitler needing service too soon. Sounds to me like a job is being done in the air box. Even if they marginal test results prooved anything, they are so marginal, they have no effect on engine life What So Ever, period.

So then why would you want to be using the paper filter, with the cheap seals that can leak, rip, tear, or break off into your engine? why not use a cotton or foam with a great seal and build quality? If you have already purchased a Cotton or Foam filter, my advice would to be continue to use it because your using a much higher quality piece, and I am sure because of seal quality and build quality, it is filtering much better over a long period of time.

Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters #492932
08/08/04 09:15 AM
08/08/04 09:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,117
Coastal South Carolina
edwardh1 Offline
edwardh1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,117
Coastal South Carolina
My only thoughts

1. - I thought it was almost a given on these forums that the K&N filters flowed more air but filtered much less well. I want better filtering myself - keep the dirt out.

2. All these companies are afraid to sumit or pay for a 3rd party test - all the tests are done "in our labs". Dam glad electrical equipment in our house has independant testing( UL etc)

Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters #492933
08/07/04 10:30 PM
08/07/04 10:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,013
USA-Michigan
Mike_dup1 Offline
Mike_dup1  Offline
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,013
USA-Michigan
3rd party test for what. Are we talking about something that is live and death like electricity? No, its a part for a piece of machinery. They same people who praise OEM air filters are probably the first one to replace the brand of tires that came on their vehicle, or use the cheapest gas they can find but will go thru all this trouble and argue on and on over a air filter. Seems they need to get a life. I just find it unbelievable someone would go thru all this trouble for what purpose? If not to try and discredit some other product.

3rd party testing, OK they why doesn't the guy who started this test go out and do it?? Let him get 3 independent tests done to industry specs and then maybe it will have some credibility. Where is this data published and where does it say that is was independent? It was done on the QT was it not, and they guy did not pay for something he claims costs over $15,000 to do. How many of you in business would do this? Sorry but I don't care what they did, the results are useless IMO.

Re: ISO 5011/SAE J726 test of Duramax Air Filters #492934
08/08/04 12:37 AM
08/08/04 12:37 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 9,448
USA
JohnBrowning Offline
JohnBrowning  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 9,448
USA
I have been warning people for years about the virtues of a nice OEM paper filter or what ever OEM spec. is! K&N and other oil guaze filter are great for very specific uses and daily drivers are not them! Even with a prefilter you can not beat good old papern for daily drivers!

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