Changing oil less often is better for your engine - SAE
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Originally Posted by Brigadier
Well, if you want to take on the deep pockets of an auto manufacturer because you did it your way, then be my guest. The amount of $$ spent on lawyers and missed work and such will far outweigh the $$ spent following the recommended OCI.
This is the "headache" part I referred to in my post above. However one would argue if you are in the clear then the lawyer can sue them for your costs for having to defend your claim. But is this all a headache that creates delays getting your vehicle back on the road in this type of case? Sure.
Well, if you want to take on the deep pockets of an auto manufacturer because you did it your way, then be my guest. The amount of $$ spent on lawyers and missed work and such will far outweigh the $$ spent following the recommended OCI.
This is the "headache" part I referred to in my post above. However one would argue if you are in the clear then the lawyer can sue them for your costs for having to defend your claim. But is this all a headache that creates delays getting your vehicle back on the road in this type of case? Sure.
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by StevieC
That's where the conservative factory OCI's and OLM's kick in. But this is BITOG.
Maybe so but I've never gotten an analysis and I have no plans to ever get one.
Your maintenance practices and the high quality oil you use is most likely the reason nothing has resulted from you not doing a UOA. If it were my vehicle I would run at least one to verify. Especially with the newer technology out today stressing oils in all sorts of ways.
I'm sure you are fine though. If you had a Honda 1.5T or a GM timing chain eating monster probably not.
Originally Posted by StevieC
That's where the conservative factory OCI's and OLM's kick in. But this is BITOG.
Maybe so but I've never gotten an analysis and I have no plans to ever get one.
Your maintenance practices and the high quality oil you use is most likely the reason nothing has resulted from you not doing a UOA. If it were my vehicle I would run at least one to verify. Especially with the newer technology out today stressing oils in all sorts of ways.
I'm sure you are fine though. If you had a Honda 1.5T or a GM timing chain eating monster probably not.
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Originally Posted by Brigadier
Well, if you want to take on the deep pockets of an auto manufacturer because you did it your way, then be my guest. The amount of $$ spent on lawyers and missed work and such will far outweigh the $$ spent following the recommended OCI.
Well Tiger you obviously have not delt with a manufacturer for a warranty claim or are really bad with talking to a representative.
Well, if you want to take on the deep pockets of an auto manufacturer because you did it your way, then be my guest. The amount of $$ spent on lawyers and missed work and such will far outweigh the $$ spent following the recommended OCI.
Well Tiger you obviously have not delt with a manufacturer for a warranty claim or are really bad with talking to a representative.
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by Brigadier
Well, if you want to take on the deep pockets of an auto manufacturer because you did it your way, then be my guest. The amount of $$ spent on lawyers and missed work and such will far outweigh the $$ spent following the recommended OCI.
Well Tiger you obviously have not delt with a manufacturer for a warranty claim or are really bad with talking to a representative.
Fortunately, I have not had too. And I hope to never have too. But given the way some manufacturers are treating warranty these days, I will do what I can to not give them the opportunity to deny one.
And again, oil is cheap. I guess some on here wish to be penny wise and pound foolish.
Originally Posted by Brigadier
Well, if you want to take on the deep pockets of an auto manufacturer because you did it your way, then be my guest. The amount of $$ spent on lawyers and missed work and such will far outweigh the $$ spent following the recommended OCI.
Well Tiger you obviously have not delt with a manufacturer for a warranty claim or are really bad with talking to a representative.
Fortunately, I have not had too. And I hope to never have too. But given the way some manufacturers are treating warranty these days, I will do what I can to not give them the opportunity to deny one.
And again, oil is cheap. I guess some on here wish to be penny wise and pound foolish.
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by Brigadier
Well, if you want to take on the deep pockets of an auto manufacturer because you did it your way, then be my guest. The amount of $$ spent on lawyers and missed work and such will far outweigh the $$ spent following the recommended OCI.
Well Tiger you obviously have not delt with a manufacturer for a warranty claim or are really bad with talking to a representative.
It has been our experience that the dealer only asks for receipts for oil used when there is sludge or heavy varnish in the engine when they go to repair it under warranty. (Family members have had to make claims while under warranty).
Think about it for a minute. Do you honestly think that the average Joe keeps their receipts for oil changes? Let alone dates and where they had it changed and what was put in? I've yet to see an article in the news advocating for consumers where they have stern warnings about keeping receipts and good documentation or else sort of thing. We all know how much fear the media likes to induce.
Heck it's not even mentioned in any of the owners manuals I have read. What is mentions is what type and grade of oil to use and how frequently to change it.
Originally Posted by Brigadier
Well, if you want to take on the deep pockets of an auto manufacturer because you did it your way, then be my guest. The amount of $$ spent on lawyers and missed work and such will far outweigh the $$ spent following the recommended OCI.
Well Tiger you obviously have not delt with a manufacturer for a warranty claim or are really bad with talking to a representative.
It has been our experience that the dealer only asks for receipts for oil used when there is sludge or heavy varnish in the engine when they go to repair it under warranty. (Family members have had to make claims while under warranty).
Think about it for a minute. Do you honestly think that the average Joe keeps their receipts for oil changes? Let alone dates and where they had it changed and what was put in? I've yet to see an article in the news advocating for consumers where they have stern warnings about keeping receipts and good documentation or else sort of thing. We all know how much fear the media likes to induce.
Heck it's not even mentioned in any of the owners manuals I have read. What is mentions is what type and grade of oil to use and how frequently to change it.
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Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by Brigadier
Well, if you want to take on the deep pockets of an auto manufacturer because you did it your way, then be my guest. The amount of $$ spent on lawyers and missed work and such will far outweigh the $$ spent following the recommended OCI.
Well Tiger you obviously have not delt with a manufacturer for a warranty claim or are really bad with talking to a representative.
It has been our experience that the dealer only asks for receipts for oil used when there is sludge or heavy varnish in the engine when they go to repair it under warranty. (Family members have had to make claims while under warranty).
Think about it for a minute. Do you honestly think that the average Joe keeps their receipts for oil changes? Let alone dates and where they had it changed and what was put in? I've yet to see an article in the news advocating for consumers where they have stern warnings about keeping receipts and good documentation or else sort of thing. We all know how much fear the media likes to induce.
Heck it's not even mentioned in any of the owners manuals I have read. What is mentions is what type and grade of oil to use and how frequently to change it.
You won't find it in the owner's manual. There is a separate warranty manual in most cases.
Quote
Your NEW VEHICLE LIMITED WARRANTY gives you specific legal
rights. You may have other rights that vary from state to state. Under
your New Vehicle Limited Warranty if:
- your Ford vehicle is properly operated and maintained, and
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by Brigadier
Well, if you want to take on the deep pockets of an auto manufacturer because you did it your way, then be my guest. The amount of $$ spent on lawyers and missed work and such will far outweigh the $$ spent following the recommended OCI.
Well Tiger you obviously have not delt with a manufacturer for a warranty claim or are really bad with talking to a representative.
It has been our experience that the dealer only asks for receipts for oil used when there is sludge or heavy varnish in the engine when they go to repair it under warranty. (Family members have had to make claims while under warranty).
Think about it for a minute. Do you honestly think that the average Joe keeps their receipts for oil changes? Let alone dates and where they had it changed and what was put in? I've yet to see an article in the news advocating for consumers where they have stern warnings about keeping receipts and good documentation or else sort of thing. We all know how much fear the media likes to induce.
Heck it's not even mentioned in any of the owners manuals I have read. What is mentions is what type and grade of oil to use and how frequently to change it.
You won't find it in the owner's manual. There is a separate warranty manual in most cases.
Quote
Your NEW VEHICLE LIMITED WARRANTY gives you specific legal
rights. You may have other rights that vary from state to state. Under
your New Vehicle Limited Warranty if:
- your Ford vehicle is properly operated and maintained, and
Originally Posted by Brigadier
You won't find it in the owner's manual. There is a separate warranty manual in most cases.
Quote
Your NEW VEHICLE LIMITED WARRANTY gives you specific legal
rights. You may have other rights that vary from state to state. Under
your New Vehicle Limited Warranty if:
- your Ford vehicle is properly operated and maintained, and
And where does it say about keeping receipts for oil changes or oil/filters that you buy and marking down the mileage "OR ELSE" ?
Example of a warranty booklet: http://www.fcacanada.ca/owners/en/m...eep_Ram_SRT-SV18CDJPM-B-001A-WML-1st.pdf
Quote
You should (ADVICE, NOT MANDATORY) keep any receipts for maintenance service and pass them on to the next owner of your vehicle, in case questions arise concerning maintenance. FCA Canada Inc. has the right to deny warranty coverage if your vehicle has not been properly maintained, or if repairs are needed because parts other than FCA parts were used; however, denial will not be based on the lack of maintenance records alone.
You won't find it in the owner's manual. There is a separate warranty manual in most cases.
Quote
Your NEW VEHICLE LIMITED WARRANTY gives you specific legal
rights. You may have other rights that vary from state to state. Under
your New Vehicle Limited Warranty if:
- your Ford vehicle is properly operated and maintained, and
And where does it say about keeping receipts for oil changes or oil/filters that you buy and marking down the mileage "OR ELSE" ?
Example of a warranty booklet: http://www.fcacanada.ca/owners/en/m...eep_Ram_SRT-SV18CDJPM-B-001A-WML-1st.pdf
Quote
You should (ADVICE, NOT MANDATORY) keep any receipts for maintenance service and pass them on to the next owner of your vehicle, in case questions arise concerning maintenance. FCA Canada Inc. has the right to deny warranty coverage if your vehicle has not been properly maintained, or if repairs are needed because parts other than FCA parts were used; however, denial will not be based on the lack of maintenance records alone.
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Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by Brigadier
You won't find it in the owner's manual. There is a separate warranty manual in most cases.
Quote
Your NEW VEHICLE LIMITED WARRANTY gives you specific legal
rights. You may have other rights that vary from state to state. Under
your New Vehicle Limited Warranty if:
- your Ford vehicle is properly operated and maintained, and
And where does it say about keeping receipts for oil changes or oil/filters that you buy and marking down the mileage "OR ELSE" ?
Example of a warranty booklet: http://www.fcacanada.ca/owners/en/m...eep_Ram_SRT-SV18CDJPM-B-001A-WML-1st.pdf
Quote
You should keep any receipts for maintenance service and pass them on to the next owner of your
vehicle, in case questions arise concerning maintenance. FCA Canada Inc. has the right to deny
warranty coverage if your vehicle has not been properly maintained, or if repairs are needed because
parts other than FCA parts were used; however, denial will not be based on the lack of maintenance
records
Well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to use common sense that from what is written in the warranty manual and owner's manual pretty much lays out that if you need a warranty repair on something that proper maintenance can affect, you had better have proof to prove the maintenance was done. Now, the fact that you never thought of it is not the manufacturer's problem. It is yours. But then again, it is 2018 and most people need to be spoonfed everything. No one can use deductive reasoning and common sense anymore. That is too much to ask, and no one wants to take responsibility for anything anymore. YMMV.
BTW, most manuals recommend taking your vehicle to the dealer for scheduled maintenance, no? Ergo, the records are being kept automatically. Think about it. I am not advocating the dealer do all the maintenance, but if you don't wish to keep your own records, weeeelllll............................thereyago.
If warranty cannot be denied due to lack of records, then how can they determine if it has been done at all? Seems silly to have that statement.
Originally Posted by Brigadier
You won't find it in the owner's manual. There is a separate warranty manual in most cases.
Quote
Your NEW VEHICLE LIMITED WARRANTY gives you specific legal
rights. You may have other rights that vary from state to state. Under
your New Vehicle Limited Warranty if:
- your Ford vehicle is properly operated and maintained, and
And where does it say about keeping receipts for oil changes or oil/filters that you buy and marking down the mileage "OR ELSE" ?
Example of a warranty booklet: http://www.fcacanada.ca/owners/en/m...eep_Ram_SRT-SV18CDJPM-B-001A-WML-1st.pdf
Quote
You should keep any receipts for maintenance service and pass them on to the next owner of your
vehicle, in case questions arise concerning maintenance. FCA Canada Inc. has the right to deny
warranty coverage if your vehicle has not been properly maintained, or if repairs are needed because
parts other than FCA parts were used; however, denial will not be based on the lack of maintenance
records
Well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to use common sense that from what is written in the warranty manual and owner's manual pretty much lays out that if you need a warranty repair on something that proper maintenance can affect, you had better have proof to prove the maintenance was done. Now, the fact that you never thought of it is not the manufacturer's problem. It is yours. But then again, it is 2018 and most people need to be spoonfed everything. No one can use deductive reasoning and common sense anymore. That is too much to ask, and no one wants to take responsibility for anything anymore. YMMV.
BTW, most manuals recommend taking your vehicle to the dealer for scheduled maintenance, no? Ergo, the records are being kept automatically. Think about it. I am not advocating the dealer do all the maintenance, but if you don't wish to keep your own records, weeeelllll............................thereyago.
If warranty cannot be denied due to lack of records, then how can they determine if it has been done at all? Seems silly to have that statement.
If you read my post above I talked about avoiding this headache. But I was making a distinction between fact and what people to do avoid the headache all together.
Originally Posted by xtell
Thank you all for your reply's to my question about oil prices in Canada. A 200% to 300% markup on oil? Man, that's harsh...
Yes, it's high. If you talk to post people who run parts stores that happen to sell oil, they like to go at around 10% markup, give or take. It's kind of strange, but here, if you want to use Chevron PCMO, the best place to get it at an attractive price (i.e. matching what a sale price at CT or Walmart would be on a competing Shell, Mobil, or Valvoline product), is just to go to a trucking outfit that uses Delo, and you'll often find cases of Chevron PCMO at a great price, too.
Thank you all for your reply's to my question about oil prices in Canada. A 200% to 300% markup on oil? Man, that's harsh...
Yes, it's high. If you talk to post people who run parts stores that happen to sell oil, they like to go at around 10% markup, give or take. It's kind of strange, but here, if you want to use Chevron PCMO, the best place to get it at an attractive price (i.e. matching what a sale price at CT or Walmart would be on a competing Shell, Mobil, or Valvoline product), is just to go to a trucking outfit that uses Delo, and you'll often find cases of Chevron PCMO at a great price, too.
This is just like many other things in the world. Balance changing a modern PCMO is not beneficial every 2K nor is it changing every 20K.
Originally Posted by Brigadier
What is your average speed? If it is under 45MPH, IMO it falls under severe service category. GDI and TGDI engines put a halt to extended OCIs for the most part. Plenty of evidence to back this up.
UOA's don't show the concentration of GDI soot particles in your oil. It is said that these particles are the biggest cause of timing chain wear and failure.
Quite to the contrary, GDI and TGDI engines have increased the necessity of long drain intervals to reduce the volatilized compounds that get thrown off the oil and end up contaminating the intakes. Long-drains are more important than ever. The clogged intakes appear disproportionately in vehicles that have had either overly frequent oil changes (ie: manufacturer's recommendations were dramatically exceeded), or were serviced with the wrong oil (a common theme, even at dealerships and quickie lubes).
I personally did a meta-analysis a few years back of a series of complaints concerning VW/Audi engines on a popular Internet forum relating to such, and the intake problems experienced. Almost 100% of those with clogged intakes had significantly exceeded the manufacturer's recommendations. A substantial number even used dealers for the entirety of their services, with a misguided belief that the dealers or quick lubes would use the manufacturer's usually quite expensive "spec" oil rather than bulk 5W-30 conventional oil that can be purchased in large quantities inexpensively.
BTW, up to 57k miles / 91.5k km's since my last oil change. Esso XD-3 0W-30. I have not done an oil change since 2008.
What is your average speed? If it is under 45MPH, IMO it falls under severe service category. GDI and TGDI engines put a halt to extended OCIs for the most part. Plenty of evidence to back this up.
UOA's don't show the concentration of GDI soot particles in your oil. It is said that these particles are the biggest cause of timing chain wear and failure.
Quite to the contrary, GDI and TGDI engines have increased the necessity of long drain intervals to reduce the volatilized compounds that get thrown off the oil and end up contaminating the intakes. Long-drains are more important than ever. The clogged intakes appear disproportionately in vehicles that have had either overly frequent oil changes (ie: manufacturer's recommendations were dramatically exceeded), or were serviced with the wrong oil (a common theme, even at dealerships and quickie lubes).
I personally did a meta-analysis a few years back of a series of complaints concerning VW/Audi engines on a popular Internet forum relating to such, and the intake problems experienced. Almost 100% of those with clogged intakes had significantly exceeded the manufacturer's recommendations. A substantial number even used dealers for the entirety of their services, with a misguided belief that the dealers or quick lubes would use the manufacturer's usually quite expensive "spec" oil rather than bulk 5W-30 conventional oil that can be purchased in large quantities inexpensively.
BTW, up to 57k miles / 91.5k km's since my last oil change. Esso XD-3 0W-30. I have not done an oil change since 2008.
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