Race oil with OE approvals. Why?

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As the link states:

RAVENOL REP Racing Extra Performance SAE 5W-30 is also suitable for an extremely sporty driving style.
RAVENOL REP Racing Extra Performance SAE 5W-30 utilizes the positive properties of molybdenum and tungsten to smooth the surface structure of the motor, reducing friction and wear, and significantly improving mechanical efficiency.

So you increase your market base and sales. There are people out there that run the SNOT out of their street cars, and want the added the protection of a heavily fortified oil. Seems pretty logical to me. You'd even have some folks who might want to run this oil in their Honda because they feel that there could be benefits of running this type of oil, rather than $25/gallon "synthetic" oil you buy at Walmart.
 
Originally Posted by Phishin
As the link states:

RAVENOL REP Racing Extra Performance SAE 5W-30 is also suitable for an extremely sporty driving style.
RAVENOL REP Racing Extra Performance SAE 5W-30 utilizes the positive properties of molybdenum and tungsten to smooth the surface structure of the motor, reducing friction and wear, and significantly improving mechanical efficiency.

So you increase your market base and sales. There are people out there that run the SNOT out of their street cars, and want the added the protection of a heavily fortified oil. Seems pretty logical to me. You'd even have some folks who might want to run this oil in their Honda because they feel that there could be benefits of running this type of oil, rather than $25/gallon "synthetic" oil you buy at Walmart.


Perhaps but I think many would argue that ACEA C3 oils wouldn't qualify as "heavily fortified". *shrug*
 
Race oils with OE approvals, why? Great question. Marketing to high performance vehicle owners who also don't want to void their warranty and/or want some assurance they can leave it in the sump after their SCCA event or other amateur (budget) race day and expect it to hold up for a few months on the street.

A professional racer who can't afford a gang of Pennzoil or Mobil1 engineers giving them a special formulation for his race engine can take official approvals as a stamp of quality.

Of course, part of what you're seeing with the Ravenol is the strength of the German spec oils to be racing oils. For example, in the past, M1 0w40 & Pennzoil 0w40 has been used off the shelf in racing many times, including at Indy.

A similar discussion came up the other day concerning Mobil1 Racing 0w50 (& 0w30), one that has no approvals. Mobil is standing behind it, and it did have detergents (VOA) along with the expected massive moly-ZDDP, & all PAO, that we know of (MSDS, VOA). Its a "Universal" race oil, being used in endurance races to drag races, and therefore needs to be generalized to the point where it could be used in a non-oil-burning engine. Still, if Mobil came out and said "It passes all the SN tests, just too much P." we could get some assurance it would work in a sump for the street.
 
Originally Posted by SirTanon
Well, what does the person who goes out and buys one of the upcoming 2019 Ford Mustang Shelby GT 500s do when he wants to do an oil change? I'd say a race oil with an OE certification would be a great place to start.
For something like that you would want to go with warranty-qualified oil only. We'll see if Ford updates the WSS-M2C931-B spec for future Shelby engines. Castrol Supercar 5w50 or Motorcraft 5w50 are about the only choices that carry it now.
 
For certain series, race specific oils are prohibited, and off the shelf, OEM approved products must be used. I believe that's the case with Indycar and it certainly is with some European GT series.

I suspect Ravenol will be pushing their racing ties heavily, given they are scheduled to be a full fledged F1 lubricant supplier next year.
 
To me, OEM approval for racing Oils is a gurantee that the Catalyst / Diesel Filters in a (street) car last as long as possible and dont get contaminated by overdosed zinc additive for example, but i still get the extra performance of a racing oil.
 
One good example of what seems a ridiculous spec rating for a race oil is http://www.eneos.us/product/Eneos-Racing-Street-0w-50/ which is API-certified SN. That's all. And it has only 700 ppm P. it is 100% PAO base oil though, something to really like about it. .... They market it for street engines that race occasionally. With ZDDP that low, I can't imagine serious racers using it much.
 
Here's something for StevieC, with his mention of Ravenol not being available in Canada yet. Assuming that Ravenol remains as the lubricant partner for whatever Force India F1 will be called next year, perhaps with that team now having a Canadian owner, maybe Ravenol will come to the Canadian market.
wink.gif
 
Some synthetic diesel oils are very good for racing:
Originally Posted by MolaKule
I think this oil would provide plenty of wear protection and film strength without consuming HP to move a 50 weight.
https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-prod...e-30-heavy-duty-motor-oil/?code=ACD1G-EA
It has a High-Temperature/High-Shear Viscosity of 3.6 cP.

Street ratings there, and a shear-stable oil at 3.6 HTHS is about right for a lot of tracked-raced engines.
 
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
One good example of what seems a ridiculous spec rating for a race oil is http://www.eneos.us/product/Eneos-Racing-Street-0w-50/ which is API-certified SN. That's all. And it has only 700 ppm P. it is 100% PAO base oil though, something to really like about it. .... They market it for street engines that race occasionally. With ZDDP that low, I can't imagine serious racers using it much.


Higher concentrations of ZDDP in race oils are mainly for flat tappet V8s... Not exactly ENEOS' target market. 700ppm is plenty for modern high performance street (race-ish) engines that use roller or cam-over-bucket valvetrain.
 
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Higher concentrations of ZDDP in race oils are mainly for flat tappet V8s... Not exactly ENEOS' target market. 700ppm is plenty for modern high performance street (race-ish) engines that use roller or cam-over-bucket valvetrain.
Basically true, but I'd like to know how high the cam-over-bucket spring rates are for those high-reving small engines like the Focus RS. Some sliding there. Not so sure they couldn't use a full 1,000 ppm of P (in zddp).
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
It also illustrates that the cost of the certifications and approvals isn't "the problem" it is often made out to be.

I am telling that here all the time, but Redline fans always like to make a lot of assumptions.
 
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Basically true, but I'd like to know how high the cam-over-bucket spring rates are for those high-reving small engines like the Focus RS. Some sliding there. Not so sure they couldn't use a full 1,000 ppm of P (in zddp).

Ford is very careful that the specified 5w-50 is a low phosphorus lube. We all know how Ford gets nervous about phosphorus. I'm sure the catalytic converter warranty claims on the Focus RS and the Shelby must just be bankrupting Ford. They're the only manufacturer I know that has totally forbidden (North American anyhow) lubes that have between 800 and 1000 ppm phosphorus. If it's between those, it's way too high for a gasser but too low for a diesel, even if it has the approval.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
One good example of what seems a ridiculous spec rating for a race oil is http://www.eneos.us/product/Eneos-Racing-Street-0w-50/ which is API-certified SN. That's all. And it has only 700 ppm P. it is 100% PAO base oil though, something to really like about it. .... They market it for street engines that race occasionally. With ZDDP that low, I can't imagine serious racers using it much.


Keep in mind that with modern roller cam designs and other anti-wear additives you don't need the bulk Zn/P of yesteryear. Most likely contains Mo and B, in addition they may use Ti as well. without a VOA we'll never know.

As others have mentioned, Indy requirers that teams use 'off-the-shelf' commercially available oils that are available to the public (it reduces development costs, as there is no 'oil-gap' that teams can try and exploit.) In Australia most Touring cars run off the shelf oils as well, as it's good for marketing for their sponsors. Given the industrial process and quantities that engine lubricants are made in, producing small batches of 'trick-race-oils' is incredibly expensive for little if any gain. Modern consumer oils are so much better than 'back-in-the-day.'

Providing OEM and Industry specs is a way to say to consumers that it's good enough to race and good enough to use everyday.

Jordan
 
Redline has a variety of SERIOUS race oils off the shelf, but surely NO approvals. looked at Ravenol products several times but Redlines high performance street oil works well, as my modified 300 hp + TQ 1.8T engine in my 2001 TT only has a 4.25 qt sump!! i have recently been adding redlines 15-50 when needed in summer only driving, yes it uses oil + noticed better vacuum on the boost-vac gauge as well as less consumption!!
 
Originally Posted by Garak
Here's something for StevieC, with his mention of Ravenol not being available in Canada yet. Assuming that Ravenol remains as the lubricant partner for whatever Force India F1 will be called next year, perhaps with that team now having a Canadian owner, maybe Ravenol will come to the Canadian market.
wink.gif



Blauparts is not allowed (by either Ravenol distributor rules, OR Canadian laws) to just ship it over the border?
confused2.gif


I've actually run this 5W-30 REP in my previous OCI, before they had their 5W-30 DXG (D1G2 formulation) available in the U.S., which is in the sump now, (yes, neither of them carry the Ford 945-A 5W-20 spec, before anyone is compelled to mention that, but I don't care), and the only drawback for me, was the 0.6 higher HTHSV (but not bad, since it was only in for a summer OCI, and I had a skid plate mounted then, sending the coolant and oil temps higher), and the 0.03 higher
 
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