**** ... I was just going to go buy a Fram filter too! Thanks for the info. Looks like even Fram air filters may be crap these days!
Air filter service life
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i forgot who, but who ever mentioned the fibers going on the MAF sensor is right i think. i have a 98 mercury villager and ever since i used fram x2 filters for the air, my car never really idled right. i bet some is on the MAFS. i just bought fram cause i was lazy. next time its a purolator air filter =), or stp or ne thing else. i dont have any proof but it sounds right =).
"my wheel lugs require more torque than your honda makes"
jay.
"my wheel lugs require more torque than your honda makes"
jay.
Filter life depends more on where you drive than how long you do it. 3 of my vehicles have red indicators that pop out when the pressure has dropped to the point of replacement.
On those that don't have the indicator, I use a general rule of change every 18,000 km or when the engine won't run at high rpm if it occurs first. But we drive in dirt.
http://www.widman.biz/Distribucion/Tarija/Autodromo/autodromo.html
http://www.widman.biz/Aplicaciones/Lipieza/lipieza.html
(that second link is only an emergency procedure, I am not recommending cleaning filters)
On those that don't have the indicator, I use a general rule of change every 18,000 km or when the engine won't run at high rpm if it occurs first. But we drive in dirt.
http://www.widman.biz/Distribucion/Tarija/Autodromo/autodromo.html
http://www.widman.biz/Aplicaciones/Lipieza/lipieza.html
(that second link is only an emergency procedure, I am not recommending cleaning filters)
where can i buy those indiators? my unles denali has it and its pretty neat.
I came across this on the net and also saw it on Two Guys Garage on the Speed Channel. Anyone have this?
http://www.filterminder.com/air_filter_monitoring.htm
http://www.filterminder.com/air_filter_monitoring.htm
that is a VERY interesting unit. may have to try one on the miata. anyone know how much?
I registered just to reply to this one
Anyway, I would have changed that filter based on personal experience. I learned years ago that in my area with its high humidity, frequently in excess of 90%, paper filters will clog themselves even with out any apparent dirt.
Without spending money on lab tests to confirm my theory is that the moisture turns the filter media to a paste which flows a bit and then the engine heat bakes it dry until the next thermal cycle.
I learned this by having a no start condition several times and one day after finally getting the engine started it idled very low. I decided that I had time to investigate the choke and when I loosened the air cleaner the engine idled up and performed noramlly. Subsequent replacement of the air filter corrected the problem. For about a year
The filters were not showing any particular dirt. Just a light grey coloration and rust on the wire mesh. The surface of the media also just looked "too smooth" for lack of a better descriptor. Actually, the one pictured is horrifically dirty in comparison.
Now you have performed some testing which indicated that that filter was in good shape but based on personal experience for my area and only using visual clues I would've changed it.
Anyway, I would have changed that filter based on personal experience. I learned years ago that in my area with its high humidity, frequently in excess of 90%, paper filters will clog themselves even with out any apparent dirt.
Without spending money on lab tests to confirm my theory is that the moisture turns the filter media to a paste which flows a bit and then the engine heat bakes it dry until the next thermal cycle.
I learned this by having a no start condition several times and one day after finally getting the engine started it idled very low. I decided that I had time to investigate the choke and when I loosened the air cleaner the engine idled up and performed noramlly. Subsequent replacement of the air filter corrected the problem. For about a year
The filters were not showing any particular dirt. Just a light grey coloration and rust on the wire mesh. The surface of the media also just looked "too smooth" for lack of a better descriptor. Actually, the one pictured is horrifically dirty in comparison.
Now you have performed some testing which indicated that that filter was in good shape but based on personal experience for my area and only using visual clues I would've changed it.
Parker, you're the first person I've seen write what I've long suspected. Before I installed the K&N, I changed my paper air filter every 12,000 miles, substantially less than a year's time. I always suspected that here in humid sweltering NE Texas, the humidity kept the paper swelled, and during long rains got even worse. They usually didn't look *real* dirty when removed, but it always seemed to run better with a new paper air filter- for a while. Longer in fall & spring, almost no time in summer.
And by the way:
[ May 19, 2003, 01:41 AM: Message edited by: Stuart Hughes ]
And by the way:
[ May 19, 2003, 01:41 AM: Message edited by: Stuart Hughes ]
i think the onyl way to find out how much is to email them. im going to try and just call them tomrrow. since im getting a baldwin air filter i want to know when it starts getting restritive.
That's interesting about the humidity affecting the paper air filter elements. It makes sense.
A couple years ago I installed a K&N on my Bronco. The paper element that I replaced it with was clean and almost new. I immediately noticed an increase in idle speed, and had to readjust both the idle mixture and speed. This indicated that the paper filter was very restrictive, even at idle.
Maybe driving in rainstorms degrades paper filters more than we think.......
A couple years ago I installed a K&N on my Bronco. The paper element that I replaced it with was clean and almost new. I immediately noticed an increase in idle speed, and had to readjust both the idle mixture and speed. This indicated that the paper filter was very restrictive, even at idle.
Maybe driving in rainstorms degrades paper filters more than we think.......
Dude, all Fram filters have that on the box, and none of the ones I've bought had pink fibers. They are white. And I just replaced the fram on my moms olds; there was nothing on the MAF sensor. Perfectly clean
humm the ones i seen has traid technology. thats the fiber stuff. its not for every car, my 91 accord only has the white filter. i think my mom has a problem with them, before my idling problem we used white filters for her van.
I agree that a filter out of the box probably won't filter out as much as one that has a few miles on it, but taking it out too far, at least in dusty areas, gets to the point where the excess pressure (suction) from it being partially blocked lets it pull fine particles through. I can usually see more fine particles on the inlet (or silcon in the analisis) when the filter is partially clogged.
I just modified my 89 Toyota 4x4 pickup to eliminate the stock filter, installing a double (agricultural tractor type) filter with a pressure sensor. Made an adapter plate and added a few feet of hose. This time nothing is getting in.
I just modified my 89 Toyota 4x4 pickup to eliminate the stock filter, installing a double (agricultural tractor type) filter with a pressure sensor. Made an adapter plate and added a few feet of hose. This time nothing is getting in.
The humidity theory is interesting, but am frequently in a very damp coastal area with 100% humidity much of the time. I have never experienced any problems with paper filter elements. When my dad turned his Thunderbird into a "submarine" in a rainstorm years ago, the engine stopped, but no water got past the air filter. After an air filter change, the car ran fine.
My 1998 Chevrolet Tahoe (gasoline engine) has such a device.
I have three Chevrolet cars and 1 Honda. The manuals all say to change the filter every 30,000 miles. Why would you change it sooner?
My mother's 2001 Buick Century has a little indicator window that shows when the filter needs changing.
Because they put all the remaining "pop outs" on the darn Thanksgiving turkeys that go off in the oven.
I know this will sound like heresy to many, but I never will be as concerned about engine air quality as much as oil and gas quality. I use Amsoil oil filters and I feel that is more important than whatever oil I use- Amsoil or whatever. I researched oil filters for a long time on the internet. Amsoil seems far and away the best, which is important since so many oil filters are plain garbage internally.
So long as the air filter is passing air and looks recognizable, the total potential weight of air impurities seems much less than that of oil and gas impurities to me (I could be wrong about this), and the exposure to the engine seems very limited by comparison. I would not expect dry air impurities to come into contact with and be retained by engine oil or parts in significant amounts (again, I could be wrong).
For air filters I replace based on visual inspection, and I'm conservative about replacements. So long as at least half the filter is not saturated it's fine by me.
Some people over-react at the first sign of saturation in the valleys and peeks. Look- if the narrow valleys and peeks are not passing air, the airflow will have already taken the next most efficient course one millimeter down or up the fold. The only caveat is that a filter MUST of course use an element which will not pass dust when saturated. If a filter passes dust when saturated it is a serious problem. Filter size and the normal dust level and type of your region is also a consideration. Dust in Nevada must be the worst. It is salty and alkaline. Some large engines also seem to have small filters which would need replacing more often, and be effected by filter efficiency more.
That said, I WOULD pay more for a filter which uses Gore's "clearstream" filter material. After nursing a paper wet/dry vacuum filter after multiple cleanings and wet cleanings (now a wet/dry vac MUST be the most demanding filter application, right?), I jumped at this filter when I saw it at Sears, and it was some of the best money I have spent. It is a white, teflon impregnated plastic sheet fan-folded like paper. It passes air amazingly freely but supposedly filters down to a few microns (the exhaust certainly smells and seems super clean- I would not take issue with the claim). The main advantage besides air capacity and effectiveness is LONGEVITY and DURABILITY. I have cleaned it MANY times. It is plastic, so it is totally unaffected by wet cleaning (or vacuuming water). The cleaning instructions are very specific. DO NOT USE A BRUSH. A brush will normaly permanently embed dust into the filter. Use water and water back flushing only, and only at moderate pressures. This filter becomes TOTALLY saturated and buried with dust so fine it is probably an environmental hazard, but the filter is always as good as new after cleaning. Prefilters are also a good idea, but keep in mind that prefilters have much less surface area than the main filter, and if they are really needed they will saturate far sooner.
I don't yet know if any auto air filters are using a material like this, but I would gladly pay a premium for it if I found it.
[ June 13, 2003, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: Fieldlab ]
So long as the air filter is passing air and looks recognizable, the total potential weight of air impurities seems much less than that of oil and gas impurities to me (I could be wrong about this), and the exposure to the engine seems very limited by comparison. I would not expect dry air impurities to come into contact with and be retained by engine oil or parts in significant amounts (again, I could be wrong).
For air filters I replace based on visual inspection, and I'm conservative about replacements. So long as at least half the filter is not saturated it's fine by me.
Some people over-react at the first sign of saturation in the valleys and peeks. Look- if the narrow valleys and peeks are not passing air, the airflow will have already taken the next most efficient course one millimeter down or up the fold. The only caveat is that a filter MUST of course use an element which will not pass dust when saturated. If a filter passes dust when saturated it is a serious problem. Filter size and the normal dust level and type of your region is also a consideration. Dust in Nevada must be the worst. It is salty and alkaline. Some large engines also seem to have small filters which would need replacing more often, and be effected by filter efficiency more.
That said, I WOULD pay more for a filter which uses Gore's "clearstream" filter material. After nursing a paper wet/dry vacuum filter after multiple cleanings and wet cleanings (now a wet/dry vac MUST be the most demanding filter application, right?), I jumped at this filter when I saw it at Sears, and it was some of the best money I have spent. It is a white, teflon impregnated plastic sheet fan-folded like paper. It passes air amazingly freely but supposedly filters down to a few microns (the exhaust certainly smells and seems super clean- I would not take issue with the claim). The main advantage besides air capacity and effectiveness is LONGEVITY and DURABILITY. I have cleaned it MANY times. It is plastic, so it is totally unaffected by wet cleaning (or vacuuming water). The cleaning instructions are very specific. DO NOT USE A BRUSH. A brush will normaly permanently embed dust into the filter. Use water and water back flushing only, and only at moderate pressures. This filter becomes TOTALLY saturated and buried with dust so fine it is probably an environmental hazard, but the filter is always as good as new after cleaning. Prefilters are also a good idea, but keep in mind that prefilters have much less surface area than the main filter, and if they are really needed they will saturate far sooner.
I don't yet know if any auto air filters are using a material like this, but I would gladly pay a premium for it if I found it.
[ June 13, 2003, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: Fieldlab ]
Make that "CleanStream" by Gore.
Al Gore is making filters now?
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