This could be the perfect vehicle to finally put the "do oils actually clean" debate to rest. I'd say run the house favorite, with regards to best so called cleaning abilities, about 3-5 oil changes and then pop the valve cover off and see if anything changes. I'd love to see the outcome and honestly wish I had an old sludgy car to test it on myself. Now to answer your question if you can get it try using Amsoil's engine flush, it should be gentle enough to not break off chunks of stuff but still remove it
Help my Maxima... Badly sludged up
- Thread starter dexterbb
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted by PimTac
Another thing to think about, we are not sure what oil was used in the previous changes. A lot of suspect brands and products are in the Philippines. I know because I've spent considerable time there.
I would get oil from reliable sources like Petron for example.
As to the traffic, yes it is bad in pretty much any metro area on the planet but unless you have been in Manila or Bangkok for example, it's hard to envision how bad it can get. These mega cities do not have the road infrastructure that most places enjoy. Add to that the willful disregard for traffic rules and courtesy and you end up with gridlock.
Just a trip from the Newport City complex to the airport which is right next door can take up to one hour. I have been through LA and the Bay Area and live in the Seattle metro but Manila is the worst by far.
LOL! On the days that he would use it, he'd drive from the north of Manila, to the airport! Every day (his job at the airline)! Traffic is horrendous. Add the constant 36C temps its no wonder engines here die brutal deaths.
I actually did a few fast oil changes using Petron conventional the day I got it. Took a peek down the oil fill, and, while it did look dirty, it didn't look that bad. It was only when I replaced the VC gaskets that I saw the full extent (the rear valvetrain looks a little bit worse). But the problem with Petron is that their oils bust seals. Once I put it in any of my previous cars, they start leaking.
Right now I've noted and will do 500 mile OICs using the cheapest fully synthetic I can find just like what most everyone has said. In about 6 months I'll then switch to M1 and be done with it.
Another thing to think about, we are not sure what oil was used in the previous changes. A lot of suspect brands and products are in the Philippines. I know because I've spent considerable time there.
I would get oil from reliable sources like Petron for example.
As to the traffic, yes it is bad in pretty much any metro area on the planet but unless you have been in Manila or Bangkok for example, it's hard to envision how bad it can get. These mega cities do not have the road infrastructure that most places enjoy. Add to that the willful disregard for traffic rules and courtesy and you end up with gridlock.
Just a trip from the Newport City complex to the airport which is right next door can take up to one hour. I have been through LA and the Bay Area and live in the Seattle metro but Manila is the worst by far.
LOL! On the days that he would use it, he'd drive from the north of Manila, to the airport! Every day (his job at the airline)! Traffic is horrendous. Add the constant 36C temps its no wonder engines here die brutal deaths.
I actually did a few fast oil changes using Petron conventional the day I got it. Took a peek down the oil fill, and, while it did look dirty, it didn't look that bad. It was only when I replaced the VC gaskets that I saw the full extent (the rear valvetrain looks a little bit worse). But the problem with Petron is that their oils bust seals. Once I put it in any of my previous cars, they start leaking.
Right now I've noted and will do 500 mile OICs using the cheapest fully synthetic I can find just like what most everyone has said. In about 6 months I'll then switch to M1 and be done with it.
Originally Posted by novadude
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Back in the day ALL engines looked like this...
Yes, sir! Seems like people forget that this was normal at 100k miles for a 3000 mile OCI on a carbureted car 40 years ago.
Yes, for the few back then that actually reached 100k miles. I was working as a mechanic all thru the 70's. At 40,000 miles, a car was considered mid-life. 60,000 miles is when things needed a lot of work. Most cars were heading to the scrap yard when they had 80,000.
Sludge like that would have been considered pretty bad but, it was not uncommon.
If that car were my project to work on, I would not manually clean the VCs. The grunge in there is representative of all the places you can't see easily. I'd buy a whole bunch of conventional oil, cheap oil filters and change oil with 1/2 qt of ATF mixed in. I'd put 45 minutes of low speed driving time on it then pull the VCs to check on progress. I'd do oil/ATF/filter changes as necessary, possibly tweaking the amount of ATF and length of driving time, until it seemed safe to use a proper motor flush product.
EDIT: You might want to check the transmission to see if any surprises await you.
Ray
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Back in the day ALL engines looked like this...
Yes, sir! Seems like people forget that this was normal at 100k miles for a 3000 mile OCI on a carbureted car 40 years ago.
Yes, for the few back then that actually reached 100k miles. I was working as a mechanic all thru the 70's. At 40,000 miles, a car was considered mid-life. 60,000 miles is when things needed a lot of work. Most cars were heading to the scrap yard when they had 80,000.
Sludge like that would have been considered pretty bad but, it was not uncommon.
If that car were my project to work on, I would not manually clean the VCs. The grunge in there is representative of all the places you can't see easily. I'd buy a whole bunch of conventional oil, cheap oil filters and change oil with 1/2 qt of ATF mixed in. I'd put 45 minutes of low speed driving time on it then pull the VCs to check on progress. I'd do oil/ATF/filter changes as necessary, possibly tweaking the amount of ATF and length of driving time, until it seemed safe to use a proper motor flush product.
EDIT: You might want to check the transmission to see if any surprises await you.
Ray
Last edited:
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
Do very frequent oil changes, try changing it once a month, and in about half a year open it up again and see what it looks like.
Chemical flushes on sludged engines can be dangerous, you could dislodge a large chunk of sludge that blocks your oil pickup, starving the whole engine of oil.
^^^ This. Don't try cleaning it. You might dislodge junk that will circulate in your engine. I might drop the pan to see if the pickup screen needs cleaning (clean the bottom of the oil pan while at it.
Free car. Just run it until it dies. Or do the work. Back in the day ALL engines looked like this...
This^^^ as well.
...and i highly doubt the Maxima's oil was changed every 3500 miles with any modern (API SL or higher) oil. The dealership is fibbing or your uncle may be mistaken?
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
Do very frequent oil changes, try changing it once a month, and in about half a year open it up again and see what it looks like.
Chemical flushes on sludged engines can be dangerous, you could dislodge a large chunk of sludge that blocks your oil pickup, starving the whole engine of oil.
^^^ This. Don't try cleaning it. You might dislodge junk that will circulate in your engine. I might drop the pan to see if the pickup screen needs cleaning (clean the bottom of the oil pan while at it.
Free car. Just run it until it dies. Or do the work. Back in the day ALL engines looked like this...
This^^^ as well.
...and i highly doubt the Maxima's oil was changed every 3500 miles with any modern (API SL or higher) oil. The dealership is fibbing or your uncle may be mistaken?
If it were mine, I would use a mix of Shell Rotella and MaxLife for a 1,000 to 1,200 miles.
Of course, manually clean what you can.
Then MaxLife for awhile.
Sounds like a good project/experiment.
By the way, that pic hurts my eyes...
Of course, manually clean what you can.
Then MaxLife for awhile.
Sounds like a good project/experiment.
By the way, that pic hurts my eyes...
Originally Posted by gathermewool
I'm not quite understanding all of the recommendations to change the oil SUPER frequently. The oils aren't going to run out of detergents. He's got some baked-on oil, not actual sludge, from what the picture shows. If anything, use a good oil and change the filter out early, at least the first time.
The acid neutralization ability of the detergents do not get stressed in short OCIs in a filthy engine. The dispersing ability of the dispersants and detergents do get stressed early on. By the way, dispersants can disperse more contaminants and bigger ones than detergents can. When dispersing ability is shot, contaminants can settle out, redeposit, and conglomerate. Further cleaning is very hindered and any dislodging that may occur is more dangerous and undesirable.
I'm not quite understanding all of the recommendations to change the oil SUPER frequently. The oils aren't going to run out of detergents. He's got some baked-on oil, not actual sludge, from what the picture shows. If anything, use a good oil and change the filter out early, at least the first time.
The acid neutralization ability of the detergents do not get stressed in short OCIs in a filthy engine. The dispersing ability of the dispersants and detergents do get stressed early on. By the way, dispersants can disperse more contaminants and bigger ones than detergents can. When dispersing ability is shot, contaminants can settle out, redeposit, and conglomerate. Further cleaning is very hindered and any dislodging that may occur is more dangerous and undesirable.
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
If it were mine, I would use a mix of Shell Rotella and MaxLife for a 1,000 to 1,200 miles.
Of course, manually clean what you can.
Then MaxLife for awhile.
Sounds like a good project/experiment.
By the way, that pic hurts my eyes...
IKR.. the tech had to stop me from taking his flathead and scraping it off!
If it were mine, I would use a mix of Shell Rotella and MaxLife for a 1,000 to 1,200 miles.
Of course, manually clean what you can.
Then MaxLife for awhile.
Sounds like a good project/experiment.
By the way, that pic hurts my eyes...
IKR.. the tech had to stop me from taking his flathead and scraping it off!
Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
Do very frequent oil changes, try changing it once a month, and in about half a year open it up again and see what it looks like.
Chemical flushes on sludged engines can be dangerous, you could dislodge a large chunk of sludge that blocks your oil pickup, starving the whole engine of oil.
^^^ This. Don't try cleaning it. You might dislodge junk that will circulate in your engine. I might drop the pan to see if the pickup screen needs cleaning (clean the bottom of the oil pan while at it.
Free car. Just run it until it dies. Or do the work. Back in the day ALL engines looked like this...
This^^^ as well.
...and i highly doubt the Maxima's oil was changed every 3500 miles with any modern (API SL or higher) oil. The dealership is fibbing or your uncle may be mistaken?
Not beyond the local dealership to be dodgy this way... Nissan Manila had a rep for putting used parts from chop shops into vehicles, instead of new parts. Big scandal back in 2012 I think.
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
Do very frequent oil changes, try changing it once a month, and in about half a year open it up again and see what it looks like.
Chemical flushes on sludged engines can be dangerous, you could dislodge a large chunk of sludge that blocks your oil pickup, starving the whole engine of oil.
^^^ This. Don't try cleaning it. You might dislodge junk that will circulate in your engine. I might drop the pan to see if the pickup screen needs cleaning (clean the bottom of the oil pan while at it.
Free car. Just run it until it dies. Or do the work. Back in the day ALL engines looked like this...
This^^^ as well.
...and i highly doubt the Maxima's oil was changed every 3500 miles with any modern (API SL or higher) oil. The dealership is fibbing or your uncle may be mistaken?
Not beyond the local dealership to be dodgy this way... Nissan Manila had a rep for putting used parts from chop shops into vehicles, instead of new parts. Big scandal back in 2012 I think.
Can you get oil from Australia in the PI? I know Caltex should be in Southeast Asia. If it was me, Marvel Mystery oil, about 500mL of the stuff to the entire engine oil full. I'd run Caltex Delo: https://www.caltex.com/ph/motorists...elo-trucks-buses.diesel-engine-oils.html
Nissan also had issues with the oil gallery gaskets in the VQ-series engine too. If those leak, the VTC system will lose function and the risk of the engine losing oil pressure and seizing increases.
Nissan also had issues with the oil gallery gaskets in the VQ-series engine too. If those leak, the VTC system will lose function and the risk of the engine losing oil pressure and seizing increases.
Originally Posted by JAG
Originally Posted by gathermewool
I'm not quite understanding all of the recommendations to change the oil SUPER frequently. The oils aren't going to run out of detergents. He's got some baked-on oil, not actual sludge, from what the picture shows. If anything, use a good oil and change the filter out early, at least the first time.
The acid neutralization ability of the detergents do not get stressed in short OCIs in a filthy engine. The dispersing ability of the dispersants and detergents do get stressed early on. By the way, dispersants can disperse more contaminants and bigger ones than detergents can. When dispersing ability is shot, contaminants can settle out, redeposit, and conglomerate. Further cleaning is very hindered and any dislodging that may occur is more dangerous and undesirable.
^^^^^^
Another very, very good post by JAG...
Originally Posted by gathermewool
I'm not quite understanding all of the recommendations to change the oil SUPER frequently. The oils aren't going to run out of detergents. He's got some baked-on oil, not actual sludge, from what the picture shows. If anything, use a good oil and change the filter out early, at least the first time.
The acid neutralization ability of the detergents do not get stressed in short OCIs in a filthy engine. The dispersing ability of the dispersants and detergents do get stressed early on. By the way, dispersants can disperse more contaminants and bigger ones than detergents can. When dispersing ability is shot, contaminants can settle out, redeposit, and conglomerate. Further cleaning is very hindered and any dislodging that may occur is more dangerous and undesirable.
^^^^^^
Another very, very good post by JAG...
Originally Posted by dexterbb
Right now I've noted and will do 500 mile OICs using the cheapest fully synthetic I can find just like what most everyone has said. In about 6 months I'll then switch to M1 and be done with it.
While I don't believe in the cleaning power of cheap synthetic, I see no point in changing the oil every 500 miles unless it turns tar black.
Right now I've noted and will do 500 mile OICs using the cheapest fully synthetic I can find just like what most everyone has said. In about 6 months I'll then switch to M1 and be done with it.
While I don't believe in the cleaning power of cheap synthetic, I see no point in changing the oil every 500 miles unless it turns tar black.
Originally Posted by zorobabel
Originally Posted by dexterbb
Right now I've noted and will do 500 mile OICs using the cheapest fully synthetic I can find just like what most everyone has said. In about 6 months I'll then switch to M1 and be done with it.
While I don't believe in the cleaning power of cheap synthetic, I see no point in changing the oil every 500 miles unless it turns tar black.
Agreed, 500 mile intervals will be excessive and wouldn't really give the oil anytime to work
Originally Posted by dexterbb
Right now I've noted and will do 500 mile OICs using the cheapest fully synthetic I can find just like what most everyone has said. In about 6 months I'll then switch to M1 and be done with it.
While I don't believe in the cleaning power of cheap synthetic, I see no point in changing the oil every 500 miles unless it turns tar black.
Agreed, 500 mile intervals will be excessive and wouldn't really give the oil anytime to work
Originally Posted by Trav
Just regular oil changes unless you are willing to pull the pan. If you want to go that rout its a fairly easy manual clean up job. I did this one some years ago.
What the flick? Wow. Nice.
Better put a watermark on those pics before they turn up in someone's flush chemical advertising.
Just regular oil changes unless you are willing to pull the pan. If you want to go that rout its a fairly easy manual clean up job. I did this one some years ago.
What the flick? Wow. Nice.
Better put a watermark on those pics before they turn up in someone's flush chemical advertising.
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Originally Posted by Trav
Just regular oil changes unless you are willing to pull the pan. If you want to go that rout its a fairly easy manual clean up job. I did this one some years ago.
What the flick? Wow. Nice.
Better put a watermark on those pics before they turn up in someone's flush chemical advertising.
Id take Trav word as the way to go. He is extremely knowledgeable and has a whole bunch of real world experience.
And I believe you do too Doublewasp. I learn a lot from you too.
Originally Posted by Trav
Just regular oil changes unless you are willing to pull the pan. If you want to go that rout its a fairly easy manual clean up job. I did this one some years ago.
What the flick? Wow. Nice.
Better put a watermark on those pics before they turn up in someone's flush chemical advertising.
Id take Trav word as the way to go. He is extremely knowledgeable and has a whole bunch of real world experience.
And I believe you do too Doublewasp. I learn a lot from you too.
Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Originally Posted by Trav
Just regular oil changes unless you are willing to pull the pan. If you want to go that rout its a fairly easy manual clean up job. I did this one some years ago.
What the flick? Wow. Nice.
Better put a watermark on those pics before they turn up in someone's flush chemical advertising.
Id take Trav word as the way to go. He is extremely knowledgeable and has a whole bunch of real world experience.
And I believe you do too Doublewasp. I learn a lot from you too.
Been thinking about this, and I may bite the bullet and just have a couple techs do this. I don't have a lift and not enough strength to crawl under the car lol.
But this will be AFTER I run a good quality HDEO through the engine for, I guess, 1000 miles? Then again after 2000 miles. I've made up my mind and will be using this : Caltex Delo Gold 400 MGX HDEO.
It's API SN from what I could see. Will be posting new pics in a thousand miles!
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Originally Posted by Trav
Just regular oil changes unless you are willing to pull the pan. If you want to go that rout its a fairly easy manual clean up job. I did this one some years ago.
What the flick? Wow. Nice.
Better put a watermark on those pics before they turn up in someone's flush chemical advertising.
Id take Trav word as the way to go. He is extremely knowledgeable and has a whole bunch of real world experience.
And I believe you do too Doublewasp. I learn a lot from you too.
Been thinking about this, and I may bite the bullet and just have a couple techs do this. I don't have a lift and not enough strength to crawl under the car lol.
But this will be AFTER I run a good quality HDEO through the engine for, I guess, 1000 miles? Then again after 2000 miles. I've made up my mind and will be using this : Caltex Delo Gold 400 MGX HDEO.
It's API SN from what I could see. Will be posting new pics in a thousand miles!
Don't over think it. It's a $2,000 car after all. Just change the oil and filter on schedule from now on and it will go another 100,000 miles. That doesn't look bad at all. THIS is bad, before and after.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.fototime.com/81B9B095C8360DD/large.jpg "[Linked Image]")
![[Linked Image]](http://www.fototime.com/A4E15121D3D35E5/large.jpg "[Linked Image]")
But it was a $20,000 Cadillac so it was worth cleaning up.
But it was a $20,000 Cadillac so it was worth cleaning up.
^^ Wow. That looks so much worse. How'd you get those out? I imagine you disassembled the whole motor?
Last edited:
- Status
