High or Low HTHS in same weight - Redline vs Amsoil

[JohnnyJohnson]

Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by burla
that uoa wont travel, I will see if he can give direct link.

That run 3 runs ago was PUP, and the redline uoa at almost 10k miles had less wear then PUP at 2100 miles, all 5 of his other runs were redline. This is what we have been seeing, long term use of redline looks real good. These guys keep running uoa's, stay tuned.



Why are you cherry picking Redline UOA'S? There are ones were Redline does not look favorable.


In fact it actually looks questionable for a fifty dollar oil I believe its good but arguably its not above a lot of other oils looking at some UOA.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by AzFireGuy79
Really? Get a 5 gallon pale to recycle your oil and stop crying ...‚. You are really going to pass up a quality product because you can't use the oil containers for an opposite purpose. You crack me up man

It's $6 here for a 5 gallon pail with lid when I have Amsoil gallons for free. No thanks.

I get the same results on my UOA's and it's shipped to my door with Amsoil for free if I order $100 which is easy for me.
With redline I have to drive to a dealer and pay their higher prices and then worry about a disposal container it doesn't make sense.

Redline is a good product but it's no better than the Amsoil I have been using so until they fix this nonsense I see no reason to use their product. I was interested to see how their C+ works in my new Caravan compared to the Amsoil I used in the past in my dad's Caravan and my Journey but it isn't going to happen because of these same reasons. Their loss.

Shoot even the Amsoil quarts have wide mouths on the bottles. So even if I was buying the quart size it would be easy to fill back up for disposal. Stupid on Redline's part.

 

[AzFireGuy79]

Any UOA unless implemented and executed by Doug Hilary, which also includes tear downs, is about useless beyond extending drain intervals IMO

Oils are so good these days, most of our obsessive compulsive servicing and sampling only serves that mental fixation. The engine doesn't care unless it's really beating the oil up under said OCI. Mentarily I see value in UOA. Little else

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by AzFireGuy79
Any UOA unless implemented and executed by Doug Hilary, which also includes tear downs, is about useless beyond extending drain intervals IMO


While UOA's only have a certain observable spectrum you can see trends with them because increases and decreases of wear don't just happen only outside the observable spectrum the UOA can see, they will increase wear throughout the spectrum so with an established trend you can determine what's going on wear wise in an engine if you have before/after to compare to and change one variable at at time.

Outside of that UOA's are valuable to telling the current capabilities of the fluid in use and whether it is contaminated and whether or not it is suitable for continued use because the TBN is still high enough, fuel is low, viscosity is in check etc.

 

[AzFireGuy79]

Yes and that brings us to the Mobil 1 dilemma regarding elevated FE. I just see UOA's as a limited tool by themselves. Without further data....those are some cool numbers higher or lower. Tell me how you ever correlate that with actual wear in an engine? Can't be done by itself

Stevie I understand what UOA's are for. I don't believe by themselves they can accurately show or predict wear. Plain and simple. But thanks for the oil 101... my sole argument is UOA's showing wear differences between oil. But for the sake of this thread and preserving it let's save this discussion for another time ðŸ‘ðŸ»

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by burla
that uoa wont travel, I will see if he can give direct link.

That run 3 runs ago was PUP, and the redline uoa at almost 10k miles had less wear then PUP at 2100 miles, all 5 of his other runs were redline. This is what we have been seeing, long term use of redline looks real good. These guys keep running uoa's, stay tuned.



Why are you cherry picking Redline UOA'S? There are ones were Redline does not look favorable.


In fact it actually looks questionable for a fifty dollar oil I believe its good but arguably its not above a lot of other oils looking at some UOA.



Don't look at the Hemi UOA's with Redline. There are a couple with 4x the wear universal wear averages. Of course someone won't post the bad ones.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by AzFireGuy79
Yes and that brings us to the Mobil 1 dilemma regarding elevated FE. I just see UOA's as a limited tool by themselves. Without further data....those are some cool numbers higher or lower. Tell me how you ever correlate that with actual wear in an engine? Can't be done by itself

Stevie I understand what UOA's are for. I don't believe by themselves they can accurately show or predict wear. Plain and simple. But thanks for the oil 101... my sole argument is UOA's showing wear differences between oil. But for the sake of this thread and preserving it let's save this discussion for another time ðŸ‘ðŸ»


Changing oils for the sake of a few ppm is ridiculous. Now changing and seeing 100ppm drop to say 20ppm, ok but we never see that happen. I'll leave it there.

 

[burla]

Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by burla
that uoa wont travel, I will see if he can give direct link.

That run 3 runs ago was PUP, and the redline uoa at almost 10k miles had less wear then PUP at 2100 miles, all 5 of his other runs were redline. This is what we have been seeing, long term use of redline looks real good. These guys keep running uoa's, stay tuned.



Why are you cherry picking Redline UOA'S? There are ones were Redline does not look favorable.


In fact it actually looks questionable for a fifty dollar oil I believe its good but arguably its not above a lot of other oils looking at some UOA.



Don't look at the Hemi UOA's with Redline. There are a couple with 4x the wear universal wear averages. Of course someone won't post the bad ones.


How many guys do you think are running multiple uoa's over there, lol. Wow. We posted what we have in our forum, sorry they don't look bad. There is a group here regardless what proof you bring, they throw shade. Really miserable people, True "oil guys", lmao. Kind of doubt it, maybe marketeers or key board warriors. Here's the correct response from an "oil guy" forum. Hey those uoa's are good work, thanks for going to the expense and trouble posting them, we will consider that, great. LMAO, not here at boobs, man you are for real Davy? cherry picking? This is the reason more guys aren't posting here, this is an ish show for sure, Good day

 

[burla]

Hey Davev the oil guy, TAKE A CLOSER LOOK! Those are the uoa's that show more wear, apparently you didn't even look. Like I said long term use of redline leads the wear numbers to drop like a rock, meaning? Try looking at the earlier uoa's, 3x as much as the third or 4th uoa. Try looking at the PUP run 2100 miles and his redline run only 2 runs later, less wear using redline at 10k miles. If someone wont bother to actually read the uoa and listen to the argument, then obviously they are just tossing shade for the sport of it. I'm sure you will have something fancy to say, but for other members here who actually care about this stuff, we went to the trouble to bring it here. Redline is a tick killer and long term use looks good on the sheet.

 

[burla]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Next time someone is talking to Dave tell him that all the dealers should be forced to carry the gallon size containers as well as the quart containers and tell him that the quart containers have ridiculously small openings so you can't even use them to take waste oil back to the recycler unless you want to spend all day filling them using a tiny funnel.

I refused to use Redline any longer because of this despite having good results with their product in the applications I tried it in.

Example:

First time ever heard that, everyone loves redline qrt bottles are rarely throw then away, they make great funnels for everything.

 

[StevieC]

How is using them for a funnel relevant to what I was talking about regarding waste oil and it being a PITA to put back in these bottles with their small openings and that dealers aren't carrying the gallon sizes? All quart containers can be used for funnels with the exception of Amsoil quarts because they are wide mouthed and don't fit most oil fill areas.

 

[PimTac]

"It's $6 here for a 5 gallon pail with lid when I have Amsoil gallons for free. No thanks."






Nothing is free. If you are getting free oil then you are getting a favor.

$6.00 is not much compared to the big bucks you just spent for the Fiat.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by PimTac
"It's $6 here for a 5 gallon pail with lid when I have Amsoil gallons for free. No thanks."






Nothing is free. If you are getting free oil then you are getting a favor.

$6.00 is not much compared to the big bucks you just spent for the Fiat.


The Amsoil gallon containers that empty out when I pour the fresh oil into the engine are free to take the waste oil. As I can't get gallon size containers of Redline because none of the dealers here seem to carry them doesn't mean I'm going to go out of my way and spend $6 on a pail for the used oil when that extra expense is not needed just so I can use quart sized containers from Redline.

Further there is no benefit in cost or performance using the Redline over the Amsoil so that is another reason I wouldn't bother.

Also I didn't buy the van, my job pays for that.

 

[burla]

Standard, I bring great oil info and we are taking containers, I have nothing else to add. OP I hope that was helpful to YOU. Look at those uoa's closely, read Corey's hemi tick thread. His video's are of interest and which oils he recorded are relevant to your question.

hemi tick thread

 

[PimTac]

"Also I didn't buy the van, my job pays for that"




You are in a unique and envious position. You didnt pay for your vehicle nor do you pay for fuel as I caught in another thread. I suppose maintenance is paid for as well?

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by PimTac
"Also I didn't buy the van, my job pays for that"




You are in a unique and envious position. You didnt pay for your vehicle nor do you pay for fuel as I caught in another thread. I suppose maintenance is paid for as well?

Yes, yes, and yes. Part of the compensation package. So while the vehicle is in my name and the payment comes out of my account it's paid for by my employer with my regular pay along with a gas card and any maintenance I expense. They were fine with my buying Amsoil and Fram Ultra cartridges for the van etc. and I'm using Petro Canada 91 octane because they don't care about the extra cost so I figured no ethanol and extra cleaning detergents is a good thing when it's not costing me.

 

[Cipriano]

Originally Posted by burla
Standard, I bring great oil info and we are taking containers, I have nothing else to add. OP I hope that was helpful to YOU. Look at those uoa's closely, read Corey's hemi tick thread. His video's are of interest and which oils he recorded are relevant to your question.

hemi tick thread


Yes, thanks the info was helpful.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted by burla
How many guys do you think are running multiple uoa's over there, lol. Wow.

If they don't, they've wasted their time and money. What is one UOA going to tell you? You don't compare brand to brand and viscosity to viscosity.

 

[burla]

There was two guys that posted their uoa's over here, Corey posted another members with his permission, to be honest most of those guys don't post here. I think they would rather talk about oil then containers, go figure. Helped the OP, goal accomplished. Same stuff from the "oil guys". More not addressing the science that was provided while asking for it, lol. I don't get this place, we used to discuss oil.

 

[Garak]

Helped how, though? Yes, you've explained to us countless times that you've solved the Hemi tick. That's not what I'm talking about, though. I'm talking about doing UOAs, posting UOAs, and interpreting UOAs. I'm not interested in the brand of oil used. I'm talking about how to use UOAs effectively, and one UOA, whether you're running Red Line, any other boutique, or the cheapest oil you find that meets the specification, is meaningless. A lot of times, when looking at the UOA, I don't even look at the brand, unless something specifically draws my attention to it, such as odd viscosity, weird nitration or TBN level, or the appearance of sodium, particularly without a VOA of the same batch being available.

UOAs are about trended analysis, not about comparing parts per million of iron from one brand to another from two snapshot UOAs. If one is hopping from brand to brand, there is very little to look at it in UOA, aside from viscosity, fuel dilution (and that's iffy, too, depending upon the lab), TBN, and coolant intrusion. Most else becomes massive guesswork.

We see it time and time again in the analysis section, where there's residual sodium from a different additive package, or a weird nitration number because we don't have a VOA, and other such things just causing confusion.

Incidentally, who is the one here talking about oil and not containers? There's only one container you're interested in. I have zero problem with that, but don't characterize that as a defect in others while at the same time characterizing it as a virtue in yourself.