Formula Shell Conventional 5w-30, 1500 miles on oil, 2004 GM 5.3 engine.
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Is that a lot of Lead or does it just seem like a lot of Lead??
Me thinks it's a lot of Lead....
Me thinks it's a lot of Lead....
That's a LOT of lead.
However the Iron and Aluminum looks nice and low for only 4660 miles on the engine. If the lead doesn't settle down I'd be concerned of a developing bearing issue.
However the Iron and Aluminum looks nice and low for only 4660 miles on the engine. If the lead doesn't settle down I'd be concerned of a developing bearing issue.
dnewton3
Staff member
Yup - that's a whopper of lead!
3rd Jasper engine in less than a year? They are a quality outfit and do good work. What in Hades is eating engines?
Something is crazy wrong!
3rd Jasper engine in less than a year? They are a quality outfit and do good work. What in Hades is eating engines?
Something is crazy wrong!
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Originally Posted by PimTac
For 1500 miles, that is a lot of lead. This is a rebuild?
It's my third Jasper in the same truck. The first two had to be swapped out because they developed serious issues within a few thousand miles.
This is the lowest lead reading I've had yet. The first UOA at 1800 miles (1400 miles on oil) had lead at 94, the second UOA at 3100 miles (1300 miles on oil) had lead at 69.
I guess I should post all three UOA's side by side.
The only good thing is that it is steadily trending downwards, and I still have over a year and a half of warranty from Jasper left.
For 1500 miles, that is a lot of lead. This is a rebuild?
It's my third Jasper in the same truck. The first two had to be swapped out because they developed serious issues within a few thousand miles.
This is the lowest lead reading I've had yet. The first UOA at 1800 miles (1400 miles on oil) had lead at 94, the second UOA at 3100 miles (1300 miles on oil) had lead at 69.
I guess I should post all three UOA's side by side.
The only good thing is that it is steadily trending downwards, and I still have over a year and a half of warranty from Jasper left.
That is a lot of lead. Regarding the third Jasper engine in less than a year. I've heard from a few people Jasper's quality has been declining.
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I never like seeing double digit were metals.
Are you using fuel system cleaners?
dnewton3
Staff member
This would cause me to really think of Jasper in a different light. Generally they've enjoyed a good reputation for decades. But three bad engines in a row? (being on the 3rd replacement seeming destined to fail)
Do you have UOAs from the other two Jasper engines?
Perhaps they are not machining/assembling some portion of this Vortec correctly? Are you sharing this info with them as well? Have you asked them if they use any Pb paste as assembly aid? (not generally common today ...)
Also, as noted above, don't use ANY additives in the fuel or lube; that only confounds trying to ascertain the origin of the Pb.
Do you have UOAs from the other two Jasper engines?
Perhaps they are not machining/assembling some portion of this Vortec correctly? Are you sharing this info with them as well? Have you asked them if they use any Pb paste as assembly aid? (not generally common today ...)
Also, as noted above, don't use ANY additives in the fuel or lube; that only confounds trying to ascertain the origin of the Pb.
Originally Posted by demarpaint
That is a lot of lead. Regarding the third Jasper engine in less than a year. I've heard from a few people Jasper's quality has been declining.
Jasper is garbage now... No where near what they used to be.... My mom and step father already had to replace one of their garbage transmissions in their Expedition. Now the 2nd one is acting up already..
That is a lot of lead. Regarding the third Jasper engine in less than a year. I've heard from a few people Jasper's quality has been declining.
Jasper is garbage now... No where near what they used to be.... My mom and step father already had to replace one of their garbage transmissions in their Expedition. Now the 2nd one is acting up already..
Originally Posted by dnewton3
This would cause me to really think of Jasper in a different light. Generally they've enjoyed a good reputation for decades. But three bad engines in a row? (being on the 3rd replacement seeming destined to fail)
Do you have UOAs from the other two Jasper engines?
Perhaps they are not machining/assembling some portion of this Vortec correctly? Are you sharing this info with them as well? Have you asked them if they use any Pb paste as assembly aid? (not generally common today ...)
Also, as noted above, don't use ANY additives in the fuel or lube; that only confounds trying to ascertain the origin of the Pb.
Engine #1: I don't believe that I had any UOA's from engine #1. It knocked like an old diesel, and there wasn't much debate as to if there was an issue with it or not. If it was running, it was obvious to anyone who wasn't deaf, that something wasn't right.
Engine #2: I have two UOA's from engine #2. It had coolant in the oil, and I used the UOA's to help strengthen my case for a warranty replacement.
On engine #2, with 1,500 miles on the engine (1,000 on the oil), it was only showing lead at 4 ppm. With 3.000 miles on the engine (1,500 on the oil), lead was at 9 ppm. Again, these numbers were with oil that was contaminated by coolant.
I'm thinking that your point, is to see what the lead looked like on a previous engine, and compare it to this one. If that is the goal, you're spot on. The lead in this Jasper engine, compared to a past Jasper engine... is off the chart.
Engine #3: Here's the details:
#1 - 1800 miles on engine, 1400 miles on oil = 94 ppm lead
#2 - 3200 on engine, 1400 on oil = 69 ppm lead
#3 - 4700 on engine, 1500 on oil = 47 ppm lead
So, yes. Compared to engine #2, the amount of lead that is showing up in the UOA's for engine #3 is significantly higher.
No, I am not using any sort of additives in the oil or gasoline.
This would cause me to really think of Jasper in a different light. Generally they've enjoyed a good reputation for decades. But three bad engines in a row? (being on the 3rd replacement seeming destined to fail)
Do you have UOAs from the other two Jasper engines?
Perhaps they are not machining/assembling some portion of this Vortec correctly? Are you sharing this info with them as well? Have you asked them if they use any Pb paste as assembly aid? (not generally common today ...)
Also, as noted above, don't use ANY additives in the fuel or lube; that only confounds trying to ascertain the origin of the Pb.
Engine #1: I don't believe that I had any UOA's from engine #1. It knocked like an old diesel, and there wasn't much debate as to if there was an issue with it or not. If it was running, it was obvious to anyone who wasn't deaf, that something wasn't right.
Engine #2: I have two UOA's from engine #2. It had coolant in the oil, and I used the UOA's to help strengthen my case for a warranty replacement.
On engine #2, with 1,500 miles on the engine (1,000 on the oil), it was only showing lead at 4 ppm. With 3.000 miles on the engine (1,500 on the oil), lead was at 9 ppm. Again, these numbers were with oil that was contaminated by coolant.
I'm thinking that your point, is to see what the lead looked like on a previous engine, and compare it to this one. If that is the goal, you're spot on. The lead in this Jasper engine, compared to a past Jasper engine... is off the chart.
Engine #3: Here's the details:
#1 - 1800 miles on engine, 1400 miles on oil = 94 ppm lead
#2 - 3200 on engine, 1400 on oil = 69 ppm lead
#3 - 4700 on engine, 1500 on oil = 47 ppm lead
So, yes. Compared to engine #2, the amount of lead that is showing up in the UOA's for engine #3 is significantly higher.
No, I am not using any sort of additives in the oil or gasoline.
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Well it appears your lead bearings will be shot soon and you will need a replacement. There is a bit of potassium and sodium but not at alarming levels.
dnewton3
Staff member
This is just supposition on my part, but I suspect there's something wrong systemically in Jaspers reman program. I would call them and ask to speak to a tech agent whom can talk intelligently to the issue, and be willing to review the repeated results of failure from an open mind.
My point is that perhaps Jasper has some dimension or spec wrong in their reman program process for that 5.3L engine series. Perhaps they are using the wrong bearings, wrong clearances, wrong torque, wrong parts, etc. Three engines having a similar failure mode is not your fault; it's clearly something they can't get right. They may not be sloppy; they may have copied over a dimension incorrectly into a machining center program, or used an old spec that is no longer valid, etc. Although many of us consider the Vortec engines all the same, there were a lot of minor changes as those engines went through evolutionary refinement over the years. Perhaps they have some outdated data for one or more parameters?
Case in point as my personal example ... I have three CV/GM cars; all span 2005 - 2007 in MY. I take them into the same place to get tires and alignment; always had good service. But we recently took one car to a different place for closer convenience. After alignment, car just didn't drive right; it seemed twitchy at steering inputs. I returned and complained, and was told it's "normal". Took it to our favorite shop, paid to have alignment, and then magically all is well. Went back to the "wrong" shop and asked for service manager. He was willing to sit down and look at the specs. Turns out they had the wrong chassis spec loaded into their program for our model cars! He was embarrassed and offered a free alignment, which I applied to another one of our cars. After the corrections were made, all was well. Think of all the customers they had blown off and yet it was actually their own arrogance that was the issue.
First you have to convince Jasper that they actually have something wrong; you'll have to bang around on the phone to get someone who's actually willing to listen. Don't get mad at them, just be persistent. You've got all the evidence you need to show that it's likely something in their reman process for that engine series that is not correct. It would be to their benefit to actually listen to you, as it will help reduce their warranty costs! In fact, if I were them, I'd want to track this engine all the way back to the employees who machined and assembled it. And, it would get a detailed tear-down with me in the room, so I can ascertain the specific failure (bearing likely, given the Pb but is it cam, main, rods?)
My point is that perhaps Jasper has some dimension or spec wrong in their reman program process for that 5.3L engine series. Perhaps they are using the wrong bearings, wrong clearances, wrong torque, wrong parts, etc. Three engines having a similar failure mode is not your fault; it's clearly something they can't get right. They may not be sloppy; they may have copied over a dimension incorrectly into a machining center program, or used an old spec that is no longer valid, etc. Although many of us consider the Vortec engines all the same, there were a lot of minor changes as those engines went through evolutionary refinement over the years. Perhaps they have some outdated data for one or more parameters?
Case in point as my personal example ... I have three CV/GM cars; all span 2005 - 2007 in MY. I take them into the same place to get tires and alignment; always had good service. But we recently took one car to a different place for closer convenience. After alignment, car just didn't drive right; it seemed twitchy at steering inputs. I returned and complained, and was told it's "normal". Took it to our favorite shop, paid to have alignment, and then magically all is well. Went back to the "wrong" shop and asked for service manager. He was willing to sit down and look at the specs. Turns out they had the wrong chassis spec loaded into their program for our model cars! He was embarrassed and offered a free alignment, which I applied to another one of our cars. After the corrections were made, all was well. Think of all the customers they had blown off and yet it was actually their own arrogance that was the issue.
First you have to convince Jasper that they actually have something wrong; you'll have to bang around on the phone to get someone who's actually willing to listen. Don't get mad at them, just be persistent. You've got all the evidence you need to show that it's likely something in their reman process for that engine series that is not correct. It would be to their benefit to actually listen to you, as it will help reduce their warranty costs! In fact, if I were them, I'd want to track this engine all the way back to the employees who machined and assembled it. And, it would get a detailed tear-down with me in the room, so I can ascertain the specific failure (bearing likely, given the Pb but is it cam, main, rods?)
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dnewton3
Staff member
Originally Posted by DONWATERS
Jasper started hiring illegal immigrants to rebuild engines several years ago. They probably can't read english and don't get the specs right.
That sounds specious ... and your proof of this claim is ?????
BTW - if you're going to pick on a class of people regarding their inability to communicate in the written form, you might check your spelling first .... It's English, not "english".
Jasper started hiring illegal immigrants to rebuild engines several years ago. They probably can't read english and don't get the specs right.
That sounds specious ... and your proof of this claim is ?????
BTW - if you're going to pick on a class of people regarding their inability to communicate in the written form, you might check your spelling first .... It's English, not "english".
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The results are in from oil change #4, and the lead appears to have leveled out at 47 ppm and 46 ppm for the last two changes. This is using Formula Shell conventional 5w-30, with an an AC Delco oil filter. I'm not using any additives in the oil or gas. Around 90% of the gas that I use is Mobil Top Tier 87 octane.
However, I'm changing the oil at an interval of only 1,500 miles. The engine had around 6,200 miles on it, when it went in for oil change #4.
I am going to request that the shop have a chat with their Jasper rep about this... and see if someone at the home office can look into what we're seeing here.
The amount of lead in the oil appears to have levelled out, but is still much too high, especially for only 1500 miles on the oil.
I have some UOA's from Jasper engine #2 (it was replaced due to coolant in the oil), Even with a significant amount of coolant in the oil, the amount of lead was still in the single digits.
However, I'm changing the oil at an interval of only 1,500 miles. The engine had around 6,200 miles on it, when it went in for oil change #4.
I am going to request that the shop have a chat with their Jasper rep about this... and see if someone at the home office can look into what we're seeing here.
The amount of lead in the oil appears to have levelled out, but is still much too high, especially for only 1500 miles on the oil.
I have some UOA's from Jasper engine #2 (it was replaced due to coolant in the oil), Even with a significant amount of coolant in the oil, the amount of lead was still in the single digits.
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