Europe's GM oil req Now Like the U.S.

[oil_film_movies]

Europe's GM oil requirements now look like the U.S.-Canada. Except for SAE viscosity rating that is. dexos1 Gen2 is still thinner (HTHS) than dexos2 though.
First is the 2016 Opel Astra (Chevy Cruze), second is the 2018 same car, see the comparison.
--- dexos1 Gen2 is now recommended for gasoline (petrol?) engines, where it all was dexos2 (thick stuff) before. In fact they have banned use of dexos2 in petrol engines!
---Notice for the weights they recommend, in reality there is no 0w-40 or 5w-40 in the dexos1 Gen2 spec. So that part just refers to dexos2.

 

[Trav]

One spec is from GM the other from PSA. GM no longer has any part in Opel. Its possible PSA is using a Nissan sourced or designed engine.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by Trav
One spec is from GM the other from PSA. GM no longer has any part in Opel. Its possible PSA is using a Nissan sourced or designed engine.
No, ....the sale only completed in August 2017. So the 2018 models were already engineered and the manuals printed. In the future, we'll see what changes (2019+). For right now Opel Astra in Ireland is all GM, as the supply chain is continuous.

Also, I just checked Mobil1's website for an Opel Astra with the 1.4T in Germany, and they recommend a dexos1 Gen2 oil, not the old recommendation for dexos2.

 

[Trav]

I stand corrected. Lets see what 2019 brings. I have a feeling it will change once they start replacing engines under warranty running that, they wont be the first.

 

[oil_film_movies]

True, and I can't imagine Ireland or the rest of Europe denying warranty claims because a dealership or owner or "Le Quickie Lube" (France) just keeps putting in dexos2 because they are unaware of the change to dexos1 Gen2 or don't even stock it.
Peugeot (PSA) has always just used ACEA specs of course, and also their own proprietary approvals, yet now they own a bunch of GM-German engines. Whats funny is that the 2018 Opel Astra (Ireland) owners manual, and preceding ones, had this statement completely slamming ACEA oil:
"Use of engine oils for all petrol
engines with only ACEA quality is
prohibited, since it can cause engine
damage under certain operating
conditions."
.... which seems silly, as ACEA rated oils have a lot of performance tests which make them about the same as dexos1 overall. They could be referring to the LSPI danger though.

 

[Crobinson16]

My question is where is a person going to find a d1g2 certified oil that has a hths higher than 3.1-3.2 , that's the highest I can find even though the limit is I believe 3.5?

 

[oil_film_movies]

Crobinson16, the limit on dexos1 Gen2 0w30 or 5w30 is really about 3.2, since it has to pass the Sequence VID FEI fuel economy test, and more visc won't work for that.
Note the Opel Astra (Chevy Cruze) in Europe says to use 0w30 or 5w30 dexos1 Gen2, and the HTHS is where it is. The diesels stick with the dexos2 spec, which is the one with HTHS 3.5.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted by Crobinson16
My question is where is a person going to find a d1g2 certified oil that has a hths higher than 3.1-3.2 , that's the highest I can find even though the limit is I believe 3.5?

The highest HTHS d1G2 oil that I am aware of is Valvoline AFS 5W30 at 3.2, which matches the highest you have seen.
Can't really think of any oils in the 3.3-3.4 range at all, but that doesn't mean they don't exist!

 

[Crobinson16]

I'm pretty sure the hths limit for d1g2 is more than 3.2 , I believe it's 3.4 or 3.5, I'm not sure, I didn't bother to look it up. Funny thing is gm does spec a dexos 2 oil in at least one gasoline engine the US. So this whole d1g2 and dexos 2 , gasoline vs Diesel perplexing.

 

[Pelican]

Originally Posted by Trav
One spec is from GM the other from PSA. GM no longer has any part in Opel. Its possible PSA is using a Nissan sourced or designed engine.


+1

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by Trav
One spec is from GM the other from PSA. GM no longer has any part in Opel. Its possible PSA is using a Nissan sourced or designed engine.
+1

No, ....the sale only completed in August 2017. So the 2018 models were already engineered and the manuals printed. In the future, we'll see what changes (2019+). For right now Opel Astra in Ireland is all GM, as the supply chain is continuous. .... And, if and when PSA frees itself from GM specs, you will no longer see dexos1 or dexos2 being mentioned in their owners manuals. They might wait for an engine & chassis change in their model lineup. Right now, and for maybe another few years, they are stuck with the legacy Opel-GM engineers & specs. Assimilation will happen later, is the point.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by Crobinson16
I'm pretty sure the hths limit for d1g2 is more than 3.2 , I believe it's 3.4 or 3.5, I'm not sure, I didn't bother to look it up. Funny thing is gm does spec a dexos 2 oil in at least one gasoline engine the US. So this whole d1g2 and dexos 2 , gasoline vs Diesel perplexing.
No upper limit exists in the SN, GF-5, nor dexos1 specs. Those have a lower limit per grade. The lower limit is 2.9, and the Sequence VID FEI fuel economy tests nix anything above a 3.2 apparently & naturally since more viscosity means it becomes hard to pass the fuel economy tests. Also, KV100 would rise to the next grade in many cases, so there is another reason there is no upper limit on HTHS, only a lower limit.
Currently in North America, and apparently now in Europe (subject of this thread), the Corvette is going with a dexos2 oil, the only gasoline petrol engine I know of that is, and that happened just recently. They can do that now in North America because sulfur levels in gasoline have been dropping recently.

 

[Garak]

If they oil happens to also have A5/B5, that will give them a maximum HTHS, though, as usual, they'll not be that close to it anyhow.

 

[OilUzer]

I've seen the Lubrizol specification compassion figure from time to time but I can never understand how significant those lines are!

For example wear being on line 6 vs. 8. What does that mean? It can't translate to %20 (8 minus 6 divided by 10) more wear! Does it? because fuel economy is almost that far apart (7 vs. 9) and I don't think we get %20 better fuel economy with dexos1?
also soot thickening with dexos 1 is on the center! Is that really 0 that can't be possible!

There is a question there somewhere

can someone explain the graph please!

 

[SonofJoe]

As an aside, since PSA bought out GM Europe sales of Vauxhalls & Opels have dropped like the proverbial lead balloon (40%-ish?).

One telling comment, from some industry bigwig, that I heard in the press, was that 'No one actually buys a Vauxhall (or Opel), they just get given it!'. This reflects the fact that a large number of these cars tended to be 'company car' perks & rep-mobiles. This meant GM Europe would shift an awful lot of metal each year but make naff all by way of margin.

The drop in sales reflects PSA putting an end to this suicidal business strategy. Despite what PSA might be saying in public, I suspect Opel & especially Vauxhall might be going the same way as Saab. Unlike Saab, I doubt that many will mourn their passing.

Might Ford be next I wonder?

 

[Crobinson16]

And that was the gasoline engine I was referring to, however they use that engine in several different platforms. The 1500 trucks and the suvs.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted by Crobinson16
I'm pretty sure the hths limit for d1g2 is more than 3.2 , I believe it's 3.4 or 3.5, I'm not sure, I didn't bother to look it up. Funny thing is gm does spec a dexos 2 oil in at least one gasoline engine the US. So this whole d1g2 and dexos 2 , gasoline vs Diesel perplexing.

GM included an LSPI test (which would only apply to gasoline engines, direct injection turbos in particular) in the dexos2 standard because they wanted to spec that across the board for gas and diesel in Europe.
Guess they changed their minds and are now rotating d1G2 into Europe!

 

[Crobinson16]

Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted by Crobinson16
I'm pretty sure the hths limit for d1g2 is more than 3.2 , I believe it's 3.4 or 3.5, I'm not sure, I didn't bother to look it up. Funny thing is gm does spec a dexos 2 oil in at least one gasoline engine the US. So this whole d1g2 and dexos 2 , gasoline vs Diesel perplexing.

GM included an LSPI test (which would only apply to gasoline engines, direct injection turbos in particular) in the dexos2 standard because they wanted to spec that across the board for gas and diesel in Europe.
Guess they changed their minds and are now rotating d1G2 into Europe!


I get the d1g2 spec and the lpsi test along with the timing chain wear test. I guess what I'm getting at is that gm had a gas motor the 6.2 in particular, specd at a D1G2 and the Dexos 2 oil spec for the same engine. So does that mean that the Dexos 2 meets everything the D1G2 meets , just a higher hths rating. I've see it posted many times on here that Dexos 2 is for diesel only ( true or not true I don't know) yet it's specd for a gas engines., Other than the Corvette , which used to spec 5w30 d1g2 , now specs a Dexos 2 0w40 the same 6.2 in the trucks and SUVs they call for a 0w20 possibly to meet CAFE standards. So if Dexos 2 is okay in one platform what is to say it's not just as good or possibly better in the others as well.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Guess they changed their minds and are now rotating d1G2 into Europe!

It's a Jedi mind trick by GM. They've started to get people conditioned to high HTHS 5w-30 options, like BMW LL-01, dexos2, and so forth. Now, they're using 5w-30 to slide in ILSAC 5w-30 options under the radar.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Like CAFE in the U.S., there is some pressure from EU governments to push fuel economy upward. https://www.theicct.org/sites/default/files/ICCT_comparison Euro v US.pdf
Going from HTHS 3.5 (dexos2) to HTHS 3.0 (dexos1) is going to help, and engine durability won't suffer since many engines that spec 0w20 in the U.S. are doing fine and the same engine in Europe gets 5w30.

Originally Posted by SonofJoe
As an aside, since PSA bought out GM Europe sales of Vauxhalls & Opels have dropped like the proverbial lead balloon (40%-ish?).One telling comment, from some industry bigwig, that I heard in the press, was that 'No one actually buys a Vauxhall (or Opel), they just get given it!'. This reflects the fact that a large number of these cars tended to be 'company car' perks & rep-mobiles. This meant GM Europe would shift an awful lot of metal each year but make naff all by way of margin. The drop in sales reflects PSA putting an end to this suicidal business strategy. Despite what PSA might be saying in public, I suspect Opel & especially Vauxhall might be going the same way as Saab. Unlike Saab, I doubt that many will mourn their passing.Might Ford be next I wonder?


Wow, I thought the Ford Focus, etc. and Astra, etc. from American car makers were good for the Euro market, right sized, decent cars. Its competitive for sure. .... I have a Ford Focus Electric sedan & it handles great, almost as good as the VW GTI handling, and that was verified by a lot of expert testers as well. Same chassis on my Ford C-Max Hybrid, and it is known to handle better than hybrids from Toyota, decent stuff. Both those seem perfect for Europe.