Renewable Lubricants
- Thread starter Phishin
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Originally Posted by Phishin
With a dose Archoil 9300, I hope to give my RLI a boost in TBN retention, some low temperature friction/wear protection (boron), and perhaps increase it's cleaning ability a touch, if that's possible with this already polar Group V oil.
RLI doesn't need any help in those respects. Don't bother with the Archoil.
With a dose Archoil 9300, I hope to give my RLI a boost in TBN retention, some low temperature friction/wear protection (boron), and perhaps increase it's cleaning ability a touch, if that's possible with this already polar Group V oil.
RLI doesn't need any help in those respects. Don't bother with the Archoil.
Originally Posted by Dallas69
You are just wasting your money.
To get excited and all worked up over what brand of oil you are using is way beyond weird.
But it's your money.
Enjoy your new truck and maybe take better care of it in the future.
You realize this is an oil forum right? Are you lost?
You are just wasting your money.
To get excited and all worked up over what brand of oil you are using is way beyond weird.
But it's your money.
Enjoy your new truck and maybe take better care of it in the future.
You realize this is an oil forum right? Are you lost?
Originally Posted by Dallas69
Enjoy your new truck and maybe take better care of it in the future.
This is BITOG. Yeah, people here actually enjoy engine oil. Somehow, we find that possible.
But I'm not what you mean by the "take better care of it in the future" comment....you care to explain??
Originally Posted by d00df00d
RLI doesn't need any help in those respects. Don't bother with the Archoil.
I haven't seen much promising info about longer drain intervals, except in their HDEO's...which I am not using. I'd like to go 8-10k miles per OCI if I could. I figured the boost in TBN from Archoil was just buying me some additional insurance.
Enjoy your new truck and maybe take better care of it in the future.
This is BITOG. Yeah, people here actually enjoy engine oil. Somehow, we find that possible.
But I'm not what you mean by the "take better care of it in the future" comment....you care to explain??
Originally Posted by d00df00d
RLI doesn't need any help in those respects. Don't bother with the Archoil.
I haven't seen much promising info about longer drain intervals, except in their HDEO's...which I am not using. I'd like to go 8-10k miles per OCI if I could. I figured the boost in TBN from Archoil was just buying me some additional insurance.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Phishin
I haven't seen much promising info about longer drain intervals, except in their HDEO's...which I am not using. I'd like to go 8-10k miles per OCI if I could. I figured the boost in TBN from Archoil was just buying me some additional insurance.
Have you seen my UOA history? If the non-HD 0W-30 and "low ash" 15W-40 could work that well in that engine with my lead foot for 4k-7k+, I don't think you have anything to worry about unless something's seriously wrong with your car.
Also, I wonder if there's a sampling bias in the UOAs you've seen. I have to imagine RLI users are more likely than average to have something uniquely tough about their applications.
Unless RLI has drastically changed their formulations in the last few years, even the non-HD ones are LOADED with additives. Tons of ZDDP and Ca. Enough to scare me off, for whatever that's worth; that's one of the reasons I don't use or recommend them any more. On top of that, their chemistry is so new and so unique that I'm not even sure they understand it fully, let alone I or Archoil or anyone else. Adding more additive would be the very last thing on my mind with these oils.
I haven't seen much promising info about longer drain intervals, except in their HDEO's...which I am not using. I'd like to go 8-10k miles per OCI if I could. I figured the boost in TBN from Archoil was just buying me some additional insurance.
Have you seen my UOA history? If the non-HD 0W-30 and "low ash" 15W-40 could work that well in that engine with my lead foot for 4k-7k+, I don't think you have anything to worry about unless something's seriously wrong with your car.
Also, I wonder if there's a sampling bias in the UOAs you've seen. I have to imagine RLI users are more likely than average to have something uniquely tough about their applications.
Unless RLI has drastically changed their formulations in the last few years, even the non-HD ones are LOADED with additives. Tons of ZDDP and Ca. Enough to scare me off, for whatever that's worth; that's one of the reasons I don't use or recommend them any more. On top of that, their chemistry is so new and so unique that I'm not even sure they understand it fully, let alone I or Archoil or anyone else. Adding more additive would be the very last thing on my mind with these oils.
Below you can see a VOA from Bio-SynXtra HD Plus SHP Motor Oil SAE 5W40 Low Ash.
This is the lubricant I am using in my Corvette LS 3 based engine 418 CiD 664HP NA revving 7500rpm everytime it takes the road, and that makes my engine happy...and me to.
This one is "Boosted" with 5% of Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack in agreement with Bill Garmier RLI President.
The reasons why in a part of the numerous email he was not hesitating to exchange with me.
"Hi Christian,
After reviewing the above VOA of the blended Redline, it will improve this Group V formula.
The Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack will improve antiwear, extreme pressure, and anti-oxidation in this formulation.
One of the patented additives that will improve the performance is called antimony tris (dalkyldthiocarbamate) in a combination of esters. This is viewed as one of the most versatile dithiocarbamate additives.
It will provide excellent antiwear, extreme pressure, and antioxidant properties.
It is also used as a bearing corrosion inhibitor for motor oils, including gasoline and diesel engines.
It can be used with molybdenum type additives in gasoline engines, but not diesel engines.
The problem is not the antimony, it is the molybdenum is a corrosive to copper and would be detrimental to some diesels.
With the horsepower you're running, I would add Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack at 10% to the Redline product. This will give you 840 ppm of antimony, or you could buy one of our Bio-SynXtra motor oils that contains approximately 420 ppm and added 5% for the total of 840 ppm of antimony.
Keep in mind that the antimony is not the only enhancement additive in the Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack (see datasheet for explanation).
In addition, the Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack VI is typically 179. I accomplished this without using any VI improvers.
This allows the Booster Pack to increase the chemistry and maintain the viscosity index, while maintaining high temperature shear stability, but most important, the Booster Pack is free of mechanical shear.
It will reduce mechanical shear in the formulation by reducing the VI improver.
This is accomplished using base oils with 220-240 VI.
The Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack was not designed to take away from the formula. It was designed to boost the formula.
Bill
William Garmier, Vice President
Renewable Lubricants, Inc.
PO Box 474, 476 Griggy Rd. NE
Hartville, Ohio 44632-0474
Phone: 330-877-9982
Cell: 330-418-3215
Fax: 330-877-2266
Email: [email protected]
Web: www.renewablelube.com"
That is the quick way I found to post the image of this VOA, any member able to receive it by email will be welcome to post it in a better format.
Christian
This is the lubricant I am using in my Corvette LS 3 based engine 418 CiD 664HP NA revving 7500rpm everytime it takes the road, and that makes my engine happy...and me to.
This one is "Boosted" with 5% of Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack in agreement with Bill Garmier RLI President.
The reasons why in a part of the numerous email he was not hesitating to exchange with me.
"Hi Christian,
After reviewing the above VOA of the blended Redline, it will improve this Group V formula.
The Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack will improve antiwear, extreme pressure, and anti-oxidation in this formulation.
One of the patented additives that will improve the performance is called antimony tris (dalkyldthiocarbamate) in a combination of esters. This is viewed as one of the most versatile dithiocarbamate additives.
It will provide excellent antiwear, extreme pressure, and antioxidant properties.
It is also used as a bearing corrosion inhibitor for motor oils, including gasoline and diesel engines.
It can be used with molybdenum type additives in gasoline engines, but not diesel engines.
The problem is not the antimony, it is the molybdenum is a corrosive to copper and would be detrimental to some diesels.
With the horsepower you're running, I would add Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack at 10% to the Redline product. This will give you 840 ppm of antimony, or you could buy one of our Bio-SynXtra motor oils that contains approximately 420 ppm and added 5% for the total of 840 ppm of antimony.
Keep in mind that the antimony is not the only enhancement additive in the Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack (see datasheet for explanation).
In addition, the Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack VI is typically 179. I accomplished this without using any VI improvers.
This allows the Booster Pack to increase the chemistry and maintain the viscosity index, while maintaining high temperature shear stability, but most important, the Booster Pack is free of mechanical shear.
It will reduce mechanical shear in the formulation by reducing the VI improver.
This is accomplished using base oils with 220-240 VI.
The Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack was not designed to take away from the formula. It was designed to boost the formula.
Bill
William Garmier, Vice President
Renewable Lubricants, Inc.
PO Box 474, 476 Griggy Rd. NE
Hartville, Ohio 44632-0474
Phone: 330-877-9982
Cell: 330-418-3215
Fax: 330-877-2266
Email: [email protected]
Web: www.renewablelube.com"
That is the quick way I found to post the image of this VOA, any member able to receive it by email will be welcome to post it in a better format.
Christian
What kind of base oil does this oil have? Like gtl, group 1-3, pao, ester ...
are there any other base oils besides the above?
Can you make a biodegradable oil with one of the above base oils?
I also thought that all oils are kind of biodegradable (in soil?) even though they are nasty in water! Is that true?
Their web site didn't talk much about it.
are there any other base oils besides the above?
Can you make a biodegradable oil with one of the above base oils?
I also thought that all oils are kind of biodegradable (in soil?) even though they are nasty in water! Is that true?
Their web site didn't talk much about it.
Originally Posted by Phishin
...
When I first came to BITOG, Redline was my "dream" oil that I wanted to run. Then it was Motul. ...
Just curious. This oil according to @miami993 voa has 0 moly! I didn't think that was even possible or an option to have 0 moly! what compensates for that?
also Redline (never used it but my new favorite for only one of my cars
) has the highest amount of moly compared to other oils. Why such a disparity between the two and have you considered that since Redline used to be your dream oil?
...
When I first came to BITOG, Redline was my "dream" oil that I wanted to run. Then it was Motul. ...
Just curious. This oil according to @miami993 voa has 0 moly! I didn't think that was even possible or an option to have 0 moly! what compensates for that?
also Redline (never used it but my new favorite for only one of my cars
Originally Posted by Phishin
Originally Posted by CleverUserName
Lower cold oil pressure. I'm guessing due to higher VI and lower 40c viscosity compared to D1.
Eliminated top end noise I had during cold startup with D1. Seems to flow better or stick to the top end better than D1 did.
What is this D1 oil that you speak of? I don't recall ever hearing of it.
Thanks for the info about your diesel application.
With a dose Archoil 9300, I hope to give my RLI a boost in TBN retention, some low temperature friction/wear protection (boron), and perhaps increase it's cleaning ability a touch, if that's possible with this already polar Group V oil.
D1 is a colloquialism for Mobil 1 Delvac ESP 5w40. I'm referring to the older PAO based CJ-4 formula which had an advertised 100c viscosity of 14.7 cSt..
Archoil 9300 has dubios benefits, none of which have ever been proven. Save your money.
If you want to "boost" RLI use thier booster pak. 2-5% by volume. https://renewablelube.com/files/7514/4777/2597/89000_Bio-SynXtra_Engine_Booster_Pak.pdf
Originally Posted by Phishin
Originally Posted by Dallas69
Enjoy your new truck and maybe take better care of it in the future.
This is BITOG. Yeah, people here actually enjoy engine oil. Somehow, we find that possible.
But I'm not what you mean by the "take better care of it in the future" comment....you care to explain??
Originally Posted by d00df00d
RLI doesn't need any help in those respects. Don't bother with the Archoil.
I haven't seen much promising info about longer drain intervals, except in their HDEO's...which I am not using. I'd like to go 8-10k miles per OCI if I could. I figured the boost in TBN from Archoil was just buying me some additional insurance.
The RLI 10w30 you purchased is an HDEO formula.
Originally Posted by CleverUserName
Lower cold oil pressure. I'm guessing due to higher VI and lower 40c viscosity compared to D1.
Eliminated top end noise I had during cold startup with D1. Seems to flow better or stick to the top end better than D1 did.
What is this D1 oil that you speak of? I don't recall ever hearing of it.
Thanks for the info about your diesel application.
With a dose Archoil 9300, I hope to give my RLI a boost in TBN retention, some low temperature friction/wear protection (boron), and perhaps increase it's cleaning ability a touch, if that's possible with this already polar Group V oil.
D1 is a colloquialism for Mobil 1 Delvac ESP 5w40. I'm referring to the older PAO based CJ-4 formula which had an advertised 100c viscosity of 14.7 cSt..
Archoil 9300 has dubios benefits, none of which have ever been proven. Save your money.
If you want to "boost" RLI use thier booster pak. 2-5% by volume. https://renewablelube.com/files/7514/4777/2597/89000_Bio-SynXtra_Engine_Booster_Pak.pdf
Originally Posted by Phishin
Originally Posted by Dallas69
Enjoy your new truck and maybe take better care of it in the future.
This is BITOG. Yeah, people here actually enjoy engine oil. Somehow, we find that possible.
But I'm not what you mean by the "take better care of it in the future" comment....you care to explain??
Originally Posted by d00df00d
RLI doesn't need any help in those respects. Don't bother with the Archoil.
I haven't seen much promising info about longer drain intervals, except in their HDEO's...which I am not using. I'd like to go 8-10k miles per OCI if I could. I figured the boost in TBN from Archoil was just buying me some additional insurance.
The RLI 10w30 you purchased is an HDEO formula.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
I've never understood the concept of buying a premium oil, at a premium price, and then having to "dose it" to get some perceived performance improvement
At that juncture, what are you paying the premium for then if the oil needs "boosting"?
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I've never understood the concept of buying a premium oil, at a premium price, and then having to "dose it" to get some perceived performance improvement
At that juncture, what are you paying the premium for then if the oil needs "boosting"?
Some of the formulas, specifically the CJ-4 HDEOs are limited to 1% SA.
If they weren't limited by the spec, I suppose you would have a higher dose of AW. It allows you to increase AW if you wish. The booster pak also allows you to add Sb and Veggie Esters to other oils which may also provide a benefit. The PDF shows an increase in AW performance when mixed with conventional 10w30 @ 500 PPM.
I've never understood the concept of buying a premium oil, at a premium price, and then having to "dose it" to get some perceived performance improvement
Some of the formulas, specifically the CJ-4 HDEOs are limited to 1% SA.
If they weren't limited by the spec, I suppose you would have a higher dose of AW. It allows you to increase AW if you wish. The booster pak also allows you to add Sb and Veggie Esters to other oils which may also provide a benefit. The PDF shows an increase in AW performance when mixed with conventional 10w30 @ 500 PPM.
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I've never understood the concept of buying a premium oil, at a premium price, and then having to "dose it" to get some perceived performance improvement
At that juncture, what are you paying the premium for then if the oil needs "boosting"?
Hi OVERKILL,
I just asked for a safety margin...~100hp/liter, 6.8 liter, 7500rpm, high speed run with sustained high speed high revs, is that common territory?
The engine is 6500 miles on this lub and stronger than ever...and by my usage it doesn't see a lot of cruising time!!!
Mr. Garmier was really confident the std formula will do more than good...I intent to have this engine driven the way it is still go for some years.
Results are what matters, and the ones delivered by this RLI are above anything else I used before.
On a side note, the oil price versus the amount of money this engine cost is not even to consider...sorry if it looks OVERKILL formula for you.
Christian
I've never understood the concept of buying a premium oil, at a premium price, and then having to "dose it" to get some perceived performance improvement
Hi OVERKILL,
I just asked for a safety margin...~100hp/liter, 6.8 liter, 7500rpm, high speed run with sustained high speed high revs, is that common territory?
The engine is 6500 miles on this lub and stronger than ever...and by my usage it doesn't see a lot of cruising time!!!
Mr. Garmier was really confident the std formula will do more than good...I intent to have this engine driven the way it is still go for some years.
Results are what matters, and the ones delivered by this RLI are above anything else I used before.
On a side note, the oil price versus the amount of money this engine cost is not even to consider...sorry if it looks OVERKILL formula for you.
Christian
Originally Posted by miami993
Below you can see a VOA from Bio-SynXtra HD Plus SHP Motor Oil SAE 5W40 Low Ash.
This is the lubricant I am using in my Corvette LS 3 based engine 418 CiD 664HP NA revving 7500rpm everytime it takes the road, and that makes my engine happy...and me to.
This one is "Boosted" with 5% of Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack in agreement with Bill Garmier RLI President.
The reasons why in a part of the numerous email he was not hesitating to exchange with me.
"Hi Christian,
After reviewing the above VOA of the blended Redline, it will improve this Group V formula.
The Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack will improve antiwear, extreme pressure, and anti-oxidation in this formulation.
One of the patented additives that will improve the performance is called antimony tris (dalkyldthiocarbamate) in a combination of esters. This is viewed as one of the most versatile dithiocarbamate additives.
It will provide excellent antiwear, extreme pressure, and antioxidant properties.
It is also used as a bearing corrosion inhibitor for motor oils, including gasoline and diesel engines.
It can be used with molybdenum type additives in gasoline engines, but not diesel engines.
The problem is not the antimony, it is the molybdenum is a corrosive to copper and would be detrimental to some diesels.
With the horsepower you're running, I would add Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack at 10% to the Redline product. This will give you 840 ppm of antimony, or you could buy one of our Bio-SynXtra motor oils that contains approximately 420 ppm and added 5% for the total of 840 ppm of antimony.
Keep in mind that the antimony is not the only enhancement additive in the Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack (see datasheet for explanation).
In addition, the Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack VI is typically 179. I accomplished this without using any VI improvers.
This allows the Booster Pack to increase the chemistry and maintain the viscosity index, while maintaining high temperature shear stability, but most important, the Booster Pack is free of mechanical shear.
It will reduce mechanical shear in the formulation by reducing the VI improver.
This is accomplished using base oils with 220-240 VI.
The Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack was not designed to take away from the formula. It was designed to boost the formula.
Bill
William Garmier, Vice President
Renewable Lubricants, Inc.
PO Box 474, 476 Griggy Rd. NE
Hartville, Ohio 44632-0474
Phone: 330-877-9982
Cell: 330-418-3215
Fax: 330-877-2266
Email: [email protected]
Web: www.renewablelube.com"
That is the quick way I found to post the image of this VOA, any member able to receive it by email will be welcome to post it in a better format.
Christian
You say the VOA is for a BioSyn product with the booster pack, but the email from Mr. Garmier is about using the booster pack with a Red Line product. What am I missing?
Below you can see a VOA from Bio-SynXtra HD Plus SHP Motor Oil SAE 5W40 Low Ash.
This is the lubricant I am using in my Corvette LS 3 based engine 418 CiD 664HP NA revving 7500rpm everytime it takes the road, and that makes my engine happy...and me to.
This one is "Boosted" with 5% of Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack in agreement with Bill Garmier RLI President.
The reasons why in a part of the numerous email he was not hesitating to exchange with me.
"Hi Christian,
After reviewing the above VOA of the blended Redline, it will improve this Group V formula.
The Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack will improve antiwear, extreme pressure, and anti-oxidation in this formulation.
One of the patented additives that will improve the performance is called antimony tris (dalkyldthiocarbamate) in a combination of esters. This is viewed as one of the most versatile dithiocarbamate additives.
It will provide excellent antiwear, extreme pressure, and antioxidant properties.
It is also used as a bearing corrosion inhibitor for motor oils, including gasoline and diesel engines.
It can be used with molybdenum type additives in gasoline engines, but not diesel engines.
The problem is not the antimony, it is the molybdenum is a corrosive to copper and would be detrimental to some diesels.
With the horsepower you're running, I would add Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack at 10% to the Redline product. This will give you 840 ppm of antimony, or you could buy one of our Bio-SynXtra motor oils that contains approximately 420 ppm and added 5% for the total of 840 ppm of antimony.
Keep in mind that the antimony is not the only enhancement additive in the Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack (see datasheet for explanation).
In addition, the Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack VI is typically 179. I accomplished this without using any VI improvers.
This allows the Booster Pack to increase the chemistry and maintain the viscosity index, while maintaining high temperature shear stability, but most important, the Booster Pack is free of mechanical shear.
It will reduce mechanical shear in the formulation by reducing the VI improver.
This is accomplished using base oils with 220-240 VI.
The Bio-SynXtra Booster Pack was not designed to take away from the formula. It was designed to boost the formula.
Bill
William Garmier, Vice President
Renewable Lubricants, Inc.
PO Box 474, 476 Griggy Rd. NE
Hartville, Ohio 44632-0474
Phone: 330-877-9982
Cell: 330-418-3215
Fax: 330-877-2266
Email: [email protected]
Web: www.renewablelube.com"
That is the quick way I found to post the image of this VOA, any member able to receive it by email will be welcome to post it in a better format.
Christian
You say the VOA is for a BioSyn product with the booster pack, but the email from Mr. Garmier is about using the booster pack with a Red Line product. What am I missing?
Originally Posted by d00df00d
You say the VOA is for a BioSyn product with the booster pack, but the email from Mr. Garmier is about using the booster pack with a Red Line product. What am I missing?
Good point. Subscribed.
You say the VOA is for a BioSyn product with the booster pack, but the email from Mr. Garmier is about using the booster pack with a Red Line product. What am I missing?
Good point. Subscribed.
Originally Posted by d00df00d
You say the VOA is for a BioSyn product with the booster pack, but the email from Mr. Garmier is about using the booster pack with a Red Line product. What am I missing?
Hi d00df00d,
Red Line is what I was using before I switched to RLI, this conversation was about boosting the RL initially, which I did and doing so I got some positive results...I then decided to move to the RLI and didn't change since then.
Christian
You say the VOA is for a BioSyn product with the booster pack, but the email from Mr. Garmier is about using the booster pack with a Red Line product. What am I missing?
Hi d00df00d,
Red Line is what I was using before I switched to RLI, this conversation was about boosting the RL initially, which I did and doing so I got some positive results...I then decided to move to the RLI and didn't change since then.
Christian
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted by CleverUserName
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I've never understood the concept of buying a premium oil, at a premium price, and then having to "dose it" to get some perceived performance improvement
At that juncture, what are you paying the premium for then if the oil needs "boosting"?
Some of the formulas, specifically the CJ-4 HDEOs are limited to 1% SA.
If they weren't limited by the spec, I suppose you would have a higher dose of AW. It allows you to increase AW if you wish.
Right, but those formulas still have to pass OEM testing, ACEA testing, API testing...etc to get approved with that SA content. That's why other additives, like organics, are used to supplement the reduced zinc/phos levels. That's the whole idea of a fully formulated motor oil, it's necessarily formulated to pass all of the tests; hoops it needs to jump through to gain approval. It's a balance. Upsetting that balanced for some perceived benefit that you cannot test for seems more emotionally driven than logical
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I've never understood the concept of buying a premium oil, at a premium price, and then having to "dose it" to get some perceived performance improvement
Some of the formulas, specifically the CJ-4 HDEOs are limited to 1% SA.
If they weren't limited by the spec, I suppose you would have a higher dose of AW. It allows you to increase AW if you wish.
Right, but those formulas still have to pass OEM testing, ACEA testing, API testing...etc to get approved with that SA content. That's why other additives, like organics, are used to supplement the reduced zinc/phos levels. That's the whole idea of a fully formulated motor oil, it's necessarily formulated to pass all of the tests; hoops it needs to jump through to gain approval. It's a balance. Upsetting that balanced for some perceived benefit that you cannot test for seems more emotionally driven than logical
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted by miami993
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I've never understood the concept of buying a premium oil, at a premium price, and then having to "dose it" to get some perceived performance improvement
At that juncture, what are you paying the premium for then if the oil needs "boosting"?
Hi OVERKILL,
I just asked for a safety margin...~100hp/liter, 6.8 liter, 7500rpm, high speed run with sustained high speed high revs, is that common territory?
The engine is 6500 miles on this lub and stronger than ever...and by my usage it doesn't see a lot of cruising time!!!
Mr. Garmier was really confident the std formula will do more than good...I intent to have this engine driven the way it is still go for some years.
Results are what matters, and the ones delivered by this RLI are above anything else I used before.
On a side note, the oil price versus the amount of money this engine cost is not even to consider...sorry if it looks OVERKILL formula for you.
Christian
Sure, I understand that concern. Conversely, the Honda S2000 mill was >100HP/L, spun to north of 9K and required plain-jane 10w-30. The present 6.2L Hellcat mill produces 707HP (114HP/L), and has full warranty on an OTS 0w-40. The GT350 Mustang engine is 5.2L, produces 526HP and spins to 8,250RPM, it spec's a generic 5w-50 and of course also comes with full warranty. There are plenty of other examples with power densities north of 100HP/L where a Euro 0w-40 or similar is more than adequate. Porsche's A40 testing includes extensive simulated lapping of the Nurburgring followed by tear-down and measurements for example.
Just dumping more of something into a formulated lube does not in any way guarantee improvement. Without testing the results are simply unknown. That's the entire reason for the existence of the testing and approval regimens and why OEM spec's and approvals which involve actual operational testing followed by tear-down and analysis are leveraged. Well-funded race teams working with big blenders are doing this on the fly but those without those partnerships nor the ability to do frequent tear downs often depend on a previously developed and tested formula from their blender of choice. Mobil's racing oils, AMSOIL's Dominator line, Redline's racing oils...etc are products that fit well into that market.
Note that I'm not trying to downplay the challenges that the power density and usage profile of your application presents, simply pointing out that 100HP/L isn't a particularly exotic target at this juncture. The lubes used in OEM applications that are hitting at and above that power level aren't requiring "Wizards in a Can" as user Trav has described them in the past, to stay together. GM's own Race Program Corvette's have used either an OTS 0w-40 (M1 0w-40) or 15w-50 (M1 15w-50) and many of these oils are used, as is, at events like the 24hrs of LeMans, Sebring...etc.
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I've never understood the concept of buying a premium oil, at a premium price, and then having to "dose it" to get some perceived performance improvement
Hi OVERKILL,
I just asked for a safety margin...~100hp/liter, 6.8 liter, 7500rpm, high speed run with sustained high speed high revs, is that common territory?
The engine is 6500 miles on this lub and stronger than ever...and by my usage it doesn't see a lot of cruising time!!!
Mr. Garmier was really confident the std formula will do more than good...I intent to have this engine driven the way it is still go for some years.
Results are what matters, and the ones delivered by this RLI are above anything else I used before.
On a side note, the oil price versus the amount of money this engine cost is not even to consider...sorry if it looks OVERKILL formula for you.
Christian
Sure, I understand that concern. Conversely, the Honda S2000 mill was >100HP/L, spun to north of 9K and required plain-jane 10w-30. The present 6.2L Hellcat mill produces 707HP (114HP/L), and has full warranty on an OTS 0w-40. The GT350 Mustang engine is 5.2L, produces 526HP and spins to 8,250RPM, it spec's a generic 5w-50 and of course also comes with full warranty. There are plenty of other examples with power densities north of 100HP/L where a Euro 0w-40 or similar is more than adequate. Porsche's A40 testing includes extensive simulated lapping of the Nurburgring followed by tear-down and measurements for example.
Just dumping more of something into a formulated lube does not in any way guarantee improvement. Without testing the results are simply unknown. That's the entire reason for the existence of the testing and approval regimens and why OEM spec's and approvals which involve actual operational testing followed by tear-down and analysis are leveraged. Well-funded race teams working with big blenders are doing this on the fly but those without those partnerships nor the ability to do frequent tear downs often depend on a previously developed and tested formula from their blender of choice. Mobil's racing oils, AMSOIL's Dominator line, Redline's racing oils...etc are products that fit well into that market.
Note that I'm not trying to downplay the challenges that the power density and usage profile of your application presents, simply pointing out that 100HP/L isn't a particularly exotic target at this juncture. The lubes used in OEM applications that are hitting at and above that power level aren't requiring "Wizards in a Can" as user Trav has described them in the past, to stay together. GM's own Race Program Corvette's have used either an OTS 0w-40 (M1 0w-40) or 15w-50 (M1 15w-50) and many of these oils are used, as is, at events like the 24hrs of LeMans, Sebring...etc.
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by CleverUserName
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I've never understood the concept of buying a premium oil, at a premium price, and then having to "dose it" to get some perceived performance improvement
At that juncture, what are you paying the premium for then if the oil needs "boosting"?
Some of the formulas, specifically the CJ-4 HDEOs are limited to 1% SA.
If they weren't limited by the spec, I suppose you would have a higher dose of AW. It allows you to increase AW if you wish.
Right, but those formulas still have to pass OEM testing, ACEA testing, API testing...etc to get approved with that SA content. That's why other additives, like organics, are used to supplement the reduced zinc/phos levels. That's the whole idea of a fully formulated motor oil, it's necessarily formulated to pass all of the tests; hoops it needs to jump through to gain approval. It's a balance. Upsetting that balanced for some perceived benefit that you cannot test for seems more emotionally driven than logical
The booster pak added at 5% improved the anti wear and EP properties of the conventional SAE 10w30 used during their testing. Even though the oil was already API licensed, it was improved above the minimum to pass the specification.
I don't recall any other "wizard in a can" additive product who actually does any scientific testing, let alone proved an actual benefit from using their product.
With that said, the chemistry of the booster pak is unique and I would say it's probably not compatible with all oils and additive chemistries. I feel comfortable using it in low doses with other RLI oils but personally wouldn't mix it with anything else.
My own opinion is that I did notice an improvement with cold starts. Whether this translates into lower wear rates remains to be seen.
Originally Posted by CleverUserName
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I've never understood the concept of buying a premium oil, at a premium price, and then having to "dose it" to get some perceived performance improvement
Some of the formulas, specifically the CJ-4 HDEOs are limited to 1% SA.
If they weren't limited by the spec, I suppose you would have a higher dose of AW. It allows you to increase AW if you wish.
Right, but those formulas still have to pass OEM testing, ACEA testing, API testing...etc to get approved with that SA content. That's why other additives, like organics, are used to supplement the reduced zinc/phos levels. That's the whole idea of a fully formulated motor oil, it's necessarily formulated to pass all of the tests; hoops it needs to jump through to gain approval. It's a balance. Upsetting that balanced for some perceived benefit that you cannot test for seems more emotionally driven than logical
The booster pak added at 5% improved the anti wear and EP properties of the conventional SAE 10w30 used during their testing. Even though the oil was already API licensed, it was improved above the minimum to pass the specification.
I don't recall any other "wizard in a can" additive product who actually does any scientific testing, let alone proved an actual benefit from using their product.
With that said, the chemistry of the booster pak is unique and I would say it's probably not compatible with all oils and additive chemistries. I feel comfortable using it in low doses with other RLI oils but personally wouldn't mix it with anything else.
My own opinion is that I did notice an improvement with cold starts. Whether this translates into lower wear rates remains to be seen.
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