Snow Driving - Engineering Explained
- Thread starter StevieC
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Originally Posted by honeeagle
Very good but I notice they are on dry mountain snow ,we got ......slushy .Hard and grooved in the morning rush and thrown up on the windshield for the trip home .
I hate SW ontario 'snow'
Yeah I hear you on that one...
Very good but I notice they are on dry mountain snow ,we got ......slushy .Hard and grooved in the morning rush and thrown up on the windshield for the trip home .
I hate SW ontario 'snow'
Yeah I hear you on that one...
Am installing this afternoon a set of 4 Toyo celsius on my 2017 RX350. Couldn't find anyone interested in buying my Michelins with 12.000Km for $20 each so they'll end up in the dump probably. For where I am these all wethers will do me fine and I won't have to change tires twice a year/ I had Nokians WRG3 which I'd have preferred, on an Outback that i sold a month ago, but the new WG4 don't come in 235/55/20 in north america, Michelin also make an all weather, but not available here. So I went for what I could find that was of good quality. Betcha that because I'm set for snow we'll see nary a flake 
Nice link Stevie
Originally Posted by cjcride
Nice link Stevie
Thanks!
Nice link Stevie
Thanks!
I'll be up in PA for part of the winter. Ugh.
I dislike driving in icy conditions.
I dislike driving in icy conditions.
Anyone that has spent their life driving on snow, can tell you that traction on snow is highly variable, depending on the type of snow and ambient temps. This video implies that all snow driving is the same.
Dry snow is so easy, if that's all we ever had, I wouldn't even use snow tires. Now, let them try a nice Ohio Valley ice storm...
Originally Posted by 02SE
Anyone that has spent their life driving on snow, can tell you that traction on snow is highly variable, depending on the type of snow and ambient temps. This video implies that all snow driving is the same.
I didn't get that from the video at all. The video was merely a comparison of the decreased traction on snow and ice i(n all its concentrations and variations) compared to rain and dry. I think the hope would be that people would realize that snow and icy conditions translate to decreased traction. Clearly the first few days of real winter driving show that there are hundreds of people that don't get it by the resulting number of fender benders that inevitably happen...around here at least.
I buy snow tires so I can maneuver around and avoid the idiots around me who don't know how to drive for the conditions. If it was just me I wouldn't have to worry at all.
Anyone that has spent their life driving on snow, can tell you that traction on snow is highly variable, depending on the type of snow and ambient temps. This video implies that all snow driving is the same.
I didn't get that from the video at all. The video was merely a comparison of the decreased traction on snow and ice i(n all its concentrations and variations) compared to rain and dry. I think the hope would be that people would realize that snow and icy conditions translate to decreased traction. Clearly the first few days of real winter driving show that there are hundreds of people that don't get it by the resulting number of fender benders that inevitably happen...around here at least.
I buy snow tires so I can maneuver around and avoid the idiots around me who don't know how to drive for the conditions. If it was just me I wouldn't have to worry at all.
That was a great video on explaining the "Circle of Traction" fundamentals, and how it applies to the conditions. I learned about that 35 years ago after I had started autocrossing. I've been applying those techniques ever since in all driving conditions with many vehicles, and it all comes down to available traction which is largely determined by the type of tires. That's why I have 2 sets of tires for my cars so I can get maximum traction in the traction circle, and always learning how to use them to the max in any condition. It's all about smoothly blending the acceleration, cornering, and braking into the limits of the circle.
While the video is informative, it a far cry from "Everything You Need To Know About Driving In The Snow".
I'd have to agree. the best thing you can do for winter driving is use appropriate winter tires.
I remember being poor as a kid (under 10) and getting stuck frequently.. it was no fun.
Oh we cant go home the normal way it has a hill on it.. etc.
Now tires have come a long way.. and for the amount of comfort and confidence they provide I use winter tires.
All-weather tires are a decent compromise.. all-seasons that actually work reasonably well in the winter.
Other all-seasons do respectably well.. although not upto winter tire standards..
then you have the "no-season" that are terrible.
As long as the snow clears the bottom of the car.. I'd take a ford focus on winter tires anyday over a 4x4 pickup truck on OEM tires.
I remember being poor as a kid (under 10) and getting stuck frequently.. it was no fun.
Oh we cant go home the normal way it has a hill on it.. etc.
Now tires have come a long way.. and for the amount of comfort and confidence they provide I use winter tires.
All-weather tires are a decent compromise.. all-seasons that actually work reasonably well in the winter.
Other all-seasons do respectably well.. although not upto winter tire standards..
then you have the "no-season" that are terrible.
As long as the snow clears the bottom of the car.. I'd take a ford focus on winter tires anyday over a 4x4 pickup truck on OEM tires.
I don't know if anyone I know that understands the "circle of traction" concept of this video. It is so much more important than just snow traction. If it was taught in school, nobody would ever crash!
No matter what the conditions, a tire can only have maximum traction in one direction only. That's why when hard on the brakes, you can't turn, and when hard on the throttle it does the same thing, except you have no idea which way the car is going to turn. You MUST stay inside the circle, and when you're not, you have lost control of your vehicle.
No matter what the conditions, a tire can only have maximum traction in one direction only. That's why when hard on the brakes, you can't turn, and when hard on the throttle it does the same thing, except you have no idea which way the car is going to turn. You MUST stay inside the circle, and when you're not, you have lost control of your vehicle.
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I drive in some of the worst weather imaginable every winter for my job and have had 0 accidents and avoided many. You would think I have a super power or something.
Originally Posted by StevieC
I drive in some of the worst weather imaginable every winter for my job and have had 0 accidents and avoided many. You would think I have a super power or something.
You are naturally driving within the traction circle, which what needs to be learned by many that have no clue.
I drive in some of the worst weather imaginable every winter for my job and have had 0 accidents and avoided many. You would think I have a super power or something.
You are naturally driving within the traction circle, which what needs to be learned by many that have no clue.
Right!
First snowfall why so many collisions and off road excursions?
We are creatures of habit, wake the same time everyday ......... until that first snowfall 'why is it so light in here?' looks outside - carp!
So instead of admitting a mistake -leave plenty of time- we rush ,not realizing that you are already late for work and there is no point in trying to get there in time.
you see them ...... in the ditch.
Tomorrow they reset the alarm (winter setting) and its all good ,and forgotten till May.
We are creatures of habit, wake the same time everyday ......... until that first snowfall 'why is it so light in here?' looks outside - carp!
So instead of admitting a mistake -leave plenty of time- we rush ,not realizing that you are already late for work and there is no point in trying to get there in time.
you see them ...... in the ditch.
Tomorrow they reset the alarm (winter setting) and its all good ,and forgotten till May.
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Thought maybe this thread needed a kick. Having great tires and traction is always best, but knowing how to get the most out of them is even better. This site has a lot of great performance driving tips.
http://formula1-dictionary.net/traction_circle.html
http://formula1-dictionary.net/traction_circle.html
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