People ruined by social media posts?

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Originally Posted by dnewton3
Originally Posted by FowVay
Every single day innocent people are arrested by the cops for whatever reason and even though they've not been convicted of any crime they still have their name published in the newspaper for the whole town to see. This also has an impact on people in a huge way. Even when the District Attorney refuses to press charges based on evidence or lack there of there is never a retraction with explanation.

This is nothing new and one of the tragic exposures people face daily.


As a LEO, I can admit that there are times when the "law" is distorted by a bad officer; it's unfortunate and deplorable, but it does happen.
However, I'd ask that you admit it's a RARE occurrence when this happens, and that most of the time, the vast majority of cops are doing a good job.

Time for a Civics lesson ...

When an officer arrests someone, he/she should have "probable cause"; something that can be clearly, definitively articulated in a PC affidavit or by Oath (ala 4th Amendment). People are not typically arrested "for whatever reason" ... There is a good reason; the suspect likely broke the law. What happens after that arrest is often out of the officer's hands. Prosecutors are elected and have their own agenda, criteria and directions for their staff. An arrest may be difficult to successfully prosecute if the evidence is not easily corroborated for many reasons such as witness reluctance, judicial directives, monetary constraints, plea deals in exchange for other related/unrelated cases, case diversions, etc.

Why would a retraction be necessary? If the PC was valid for the arrest, why would the law officer's entity be responsible to offer a retraction? Just because someone didn't get convicted, or even prosecuted, does not mean the crime was not committed. I have arrested folks for domestic violence, OWI, battery and other crimes that ultimately were not prosecuted for various reasons beyond my control. But the lack of prosecution does not invalidate the arrest. If the arrest were improper/illegal, then a torte can be filed for a violation of rights. And if that civil case were found in favor of the subject, perhaps then a "retraction" might be warranted, but only then. MOST of the time, folks who are not prosecuted were still arrested for a very good reason, backed up by PC as required by the 4th.

Is it a perfect system? Nope; errors happen, compromises are often difficult to appreciate, etc. But, is it one of the best available, fairest of most options, well established and reasonable? Yes.

Further, we should all be grateful that our names ARE published in the local paper when an arrest occurs. As much as it might be embarrassing or harmful to one's reputation, there is a good reason we have this public announcement ... it's called the 6th Amendment; a "speedy and public trial". While we could debate the "speedy" part, delays are often due to constraints and/or tactics on both sides. But the alternative is one such as what we see in countries which practice heavy-handed jurisprudence like Russia and China, and many in the middle-East, where you're grabbed and jailed, and no one knows where you disappeared to, and no charges are brought for months, if not years, and you waste away in a cell at the hands of tyranny. In fact, the "speedy and public trial" of that 6th Amendment is a promise of our system to deal with a subject fairly and openly, as was NOT the practice in England 300 some years ago ... where Monarchy ruled with an iron fist. I certainly understand the discomfort you object to; that seeing one's name in the paper is embarrassing, but that is a small price to pay for the "right" to be treated fairly and openly. One may not believe it is fair, but that pales in comparison to the horridly objectionable treatment that happens in places where your "right" to an open trial for all to see is denied. It is, in it's shortest definition, about "transparency". We have the right to be tried in public, and not hidden away at the hands of oppression. But the "cost" of that right is that we're also subject to some embarrassment. A very fair and equitable trade if you ask me.

However, this thread is about social media retributions and (IMO) immoral actions of revenge. I don't really think your complaint of newspaper embarrassment is the same topic as that of the OPs. What you speak of is not akin to the reports of people defaming others based on lies where no real control or even scrutiny exists to validate the claims. Hence, social media is perhaps interesting, but not worthy of anything but entertainment. (IMO - most of it's garbage or narcissistic indulgence, but you may feel differently).


Your show of naivety is shocking. Your views are so blatantly tainted by your occupation that you fail to see what is happening in your own society. You seem to think the system is fair and just when it is so one sided that it can hardly be referred to as justice any longer.

When one innocent person is jailed and loses their freedom because of a corrupt cop or other government employee then the system has failed. Cops lie and they lie to harm. They murder, rape, wound, and commit any other form of violence you can name. The world is a harsh place. I will not make excuses for the people who are hired by, paid for, insured and pensioned by my taxes because they chose a line of work that they're not cut out for.

I'm sorry that you don't see the failure of the justice system but you've obviously been on the wrong side of the fence for too long. I don't know of many jobs that allow murder of innocent people with no repercussion or finding of fault. Murder is murder regardless of what shirt you wear.

I apologize to others for interrupting the social media commentary but I felt it necessary to comment on this blind acceptance of authority by people who view the citizenry as the enemy. I don't live in a war zone anymore and I won't accept para-military actions by the uniformed enforcers of civilian law.
 
Originally Posted by FowVay

Your show of naivety is shocking. Your views are so blatantly tainted by your occupation that you fail to see what is happening in your own society. You seem to think the system is fair and just when it is so one sided that it can hardly be referred to as justice any longer.

When one innocent person is jailed and loses their freedom because of a corrupt cop or other government employee then the system has failed. Cops lie and they lie to harm. They murder, rape, wound, and commit any other form of violence you can name. The world is a harsh place. I will not make excuses for the people who are hired by, paid for, insured and pensioned by my taxes because they chose a line of work that they're not cut out for.

I'm sorry that you don't see the failure of the justice system but you've obviously been on the wrong side of the fence for too long. I don't know of many jobs that allow murder of innocent people with no repercussion or finding of fault. Murder is murder regardless of what shirt you wear.

I apologize to others for interrupting the social media commentary but I felt it necessary to comment on this blind acceptance of authority by people who view the citizenry as the enemy. I don't live in a war zone anymore and I won't accept para-military actions by the uniformed enforcers of civilian law.


Wait, like the military?

And before you say "oh you were never in," I was.
 
Originally Posted by Pew

Wait, like the military?

And before you say "oh you were never in," I was.


Please clarify.
 
Originally Posted by FowVay
Originally Posted by Pew

Wait, like the military?

And before you say "oh you were never in," I was.


Please clarify.


There have been numerous instances where our own military personnel have left a black streak on it's record. From the infamous "My Lai Massacre" to when the STA platoon urinated on Taliban bodies, to the continuous rape and sexual harassment issues that plagues Okinawa. To our own corruption from up top, three military uniform changes in the Army in what...15 years at a huge expensive waste? Then the Army officers that fired on their own soldiers.

If we're going to judge the actions of an entire group based on the actions of a few then let's play that game.
 
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Originally Posted by FowVay


I don't live in a war zone anymore and I won't accept para-military actions by the uniformed enforcers of civilian law.


I don't want to derail the living daylights out of this thread, so I'm going to try to make this my only post on this topic in this thread.

You are definitely onto something here. Within law enforcement, there are 2 schools of thought. One believes that police should be less menacing, and more about improving the community through the community, and then you have those who pretty much want to build and activate SkyNet to police the community.

D's perspective is not one of naivete. He's almost certainly a good LEO who works with good LEOs. He goes out everyday, applies the rules appropriately, and it works in his experience. I know good cops, who do not approve of, and will not stoop to the level of some of the bad ones. None of the good ones want to get bunched in with the bad ones.

I've been simultaneously at the center of an abuse of PC, abuse of force, abuse of SOP, over-militarized action of law enforcement before. When you have, it's pretty much impossible to look at law enforcement as "working pretty well". We did cast off a lot of the bad old ways as we formed and developed this nation. A lot more of them still need to go. What slips through the cracks right now is way beyond the point of unacceptable for a nation like ours.
 
Originally Posted by FowVay
Your show of naivety is shocking. Your views are so blatantly tainted by your occupation that you fail to see what is happening in your own society. You seem to think the system is fair and just when it is so one sided that it can hardly be referred to as justice any longer.

When one innocent person is jailed and loses their freedom because of a corrupt cop or other government employee then the system has failed. Cops lie and they lie to harm. They murder, rape, wound, and commit any other form of violence you can name. The world is a harsh place. I will not make excuses for the people who are hired by, paid for, insured and pensioned by my taxes because they chose a line of work that they're not cut out for.

I'm sorry that you don't see the failure of the justice system but you've obviously been on the wrong side of the fence for too long. I don't know of many jobs that allow murder of innocent people with no repercussion or finding of fault. Murder is murder regardless of what shirt you wear.

I apologize to others for interrupting the social media commentary but I felt it necessary to comment on this blind acceptance of authority by people who view the citizenry as the enemy. I don't live in a war zone anymore and I won't accept para-military actions by the uniformed enforcers of civilian law.


My "naivety" is no more evident than your apparent total distrust of the system; perhaps your or someone you know was horribly wronged and now you don't trust anything/anyone?

If you are not happy with the design and application of the "system" here, you can either work to change it, or live elsewhere where a different system better suits you.

"When one innocent person is jailed and loses their freedom because of a corrupt cop or other government employee then the system has failed." I would agree that something failed, but it's not the system; it's the person that failed. The "system" does not teach cops to lie, cheat, rape, murder. In fact, most all LEO agencies have an oversight committees made up of CITIZENS (merit boards, boards of commissioners, town boards, etc). The inference I take from your comments is that we LEOs are taught to be bad from the get-go, and do so with no accountability whatsoever. Come on, now ... Really? If you're not willing to have a rational conversation, then you're not really contributing in a meaningful manner here.

When you make comments like "Cops lie and they lie to harm. They murder, rape, wound, and commit any other form of violence you can name.", am I supposed to think that ALL cops do this? That I, personally, do this? Should it be my inference from your comments that all cops are tainted? I already stated that cops who break the law are deplorable, and I will forever be against such behavior. But are you saying that ALL cops are bad? It is my assertion that these cops are rare, and good cops abhor these scum more than just about any other criminal. To throw your wet blanket over all cops is no worse than others whom advocate things solely based on race, gender or such in negative connotations; it's not helpful to any conversation.

"I felt it necessary to comment on this blind acceptance of authority by people who view the citizenry as the enemy. That is offensive to me, personally. You are now commenting in a manner which would imply that I, as a LEO, see my own wife, children, friends and neighbors as "the enemy". Because most all of us are citizens. And even if you're not a "citizen" (US or otherwise), you're still a human being which shall enjoy my professional respect to a level that is adequate to attend to your rights.

You must live in a very different part of the world than I do. Where I live, in my local society, good citizens respect good cops, and vice versa. We're a team; a relationship which coexists by desire on both sides. Bad people (from any walk of life, in any profession) are not those who my words defend in this thread. If you really, truly believe that the system "is so one sided that it can hardly be referred to as justice any longer' then perhaps you need to move to a different jurisdiction!

Think I believe that I'm above the law? I guess you were not living in my home when I arrested my own juvenile son for possession of alcohol by a minor. You think that wasn't hard for me? You think that didn't make life tough at my house for years? Perhaps you don't think I suffered extreme embarrassment professionally and personally in that matter? I am not above the law, nor is my family, nor are you, or anyone else. Bad cops suck, but they do exist. I abhor them. But your blanket position that the whole system is corrupt is way out of whack, at least where I live. Frankly, I fear that your world is horribly wrong, and if you can, you should move. Because not all cops are like what you imply. In fact, most of them are good people, just as are most citizens.

Jiminy Cricket! How did this devolve into cops doing rape and murder? This is a thread about FB revenge. And when someone took a left turn into public arrest records, I commented on why arrests are made public; part of the 6A.



Clearly you're on a Hades-bent tour to make your reality into my reality. Simply put ... we'll agree to disagree.
 
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FowVay sounds like a person who lived in a neighborhood where most of the people there lived and operated on the wrong side of the law as a part of daily life. How else does one become this anti-police?
 
Originally Posted by FowVay


Your show of naivety is shocking. Your views are so blatantly tainted by your occupation that you fail to see what is happening in your own society. You seem to think the system is fair and just when it is so one sided that it can hardly be referred to as justice any longer.

When one innocent person is jailed and loses their freedom because of a corrupt cop or other government employee then the system has failed. Cops lie and they lie to harm. They murder, rape, wound, and commit any other form of violence you can name. The world is a harsh place. I will not make excuses for the people who are hired by, paid for, insured and pensioned by my taxes because they chose a line of work that they're not cut out for.

I'm sorry that you don't see the failure of the justice system but you've obviously been on the wrong side of the fence for too long. I don't know of many jobs that allow murder of innocent people with no repercussion or finding of fault. Murder is murder regardless of what shirt you wear.

I apologize to others for interrupting the social media commentary but I felt it necessary to comment on this blind acceptance of authority by people who view the citizenry as the enemy. I don't live in a war zone anymore and I won't accept para-military actions by the uniformed enforcers of civilian law.

Well said.
 
David Newton, you're hardly in a position to suggest if I don't like something then I should leave. This is precisely what I'm talking about. Your arrogance is nauseating.

If you're the David Newton that is now retired in South Bend then your record speaks volumes about your attitude and systemic personality. You're sick.

Cops don't need to be trained to be liars. They're human and it is just part of the human psychology. Unfortunately their lies cost people freedom and huge amounts of money to defend themselves. To expect some form of integrity from cops isn't criticizing or placing restraints on them. It's obviously a necessity that is going overlooked.

And for the gentleman who likes to compare civilian law enforcers to the military - please tell me the last time a US soldier/sailor/airman/marine shot an unarmed US citizen in the back and claimed he feared for his life and got off without even losing their job. Please show me that news article because I certainly missed it.

And as for social media ruining people - try being beaten half to death by a cop because you didn't show him what he regarded as 'respect'. Social media is the least of our worries.
 
Originally Posted by grampi
FowVay sounds like a person who lived in a neighborhood where most of the people there lived and operated on the wrong side of the law as a part of daily life. How else does one become this anti-police?

Probably living somewhere the police are corrupt.
 
Originally Posted by FowVay
And for the gentleman who likes to compare civilian law enforcers to the military - please tell me the last time a US soldier/sailor/airman/marine shot an unarmed US citizen in the back and claimed he feared for his life and got off without even losing their job. Please show me that news article because I certainly missed it.


They don't, they're not allowed operations in the States. But I can show you plenty of times when one shot a non-US citizen that's innocent. Or the rape and sexual harassment in-branch and around town. You sound like another one of those ignorant people that take whatever "news" they see on facebook to heart.

You seem like you live in some far off cloud where the cops seem to kill the law-abiding and courteous citizen.
 
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Originally Posted by FowVay
David Newton, you're hardly in a position to suggest if I don't like something then I should leave. This is precisely what I'm talking about. Your arrogance is nauseating.

If you're the David Newton that is now retired in South Bend then your record speaks volumes about your attitude and systemic personality. You're sick.

Cops don't need to be trained to be liars. They're human and it is just part of the human psychology. Unfortunately their lies cost people freedom and huge amounts of money to defend themselves. To expect some form of integrity from cops isn't criticizing or placing restraints on them. It's obviously a necessity that is going overlooked.



I was suggesting that if you don't like the environment in which you live, then either work in a civil manner to change it, or move to a different one. I wasn't suggesting anything other than that. I didn't like where I lived, so I moved. I very much like where I'm at now. I didn't like one of my former jobs, so I left, and I'm much happier now. I wasn't being rude; I was suggesting that perhaps you need a change of venue to have a better outlook. You seem resigned to simply live in the perceived squaller where you're at now. That's too bad. I am not arrogant. I was recommending that you reassess where you live if the societal environment doesn't suit you.

Nope - I'm not "David Newton" in South Bend. Nor am I "sick".

I agree that we are all humans. We all struggle with vices and demons, so to speak. But some of us try to rise above and hold ourselves accountable to a high standard. Occasionally, for any number of reasons, we fail. All people fail at times. The magnitude of failure is typically equal to the risk of the task. Small failures go unnoticed; large ones don't. There's also a part of human psychology that makes some of us want to succeed; to be "better", to achieve excellence. It's too hard (and improper) to paint all people with one brush-stroke. There are good people and bad people in the world. It's my general consensus that most are good; otherwise we'd be in a sea of despair. For every arrest I've made, I've met and dealt with hundreds of good folks. For every bad cop I've personally known (two that I can attest to), I've served with hundreds of great ones. Society has every right to expect integrity from the people they pay to serve them; no matter what the job. Does not matter if they're a cop, nurse, fireman, SSA worker, public utility worker, court clerk, etc. I agree with you. And most of the time, that happens. The expectation of integrity isn't overlooked at my LEO agency; it's preached and practiced daily.

It's clear, and unfortunate, that I cannot seem to connect with you on some level; to help you understand that not all LEOs are bad people. I get just as upset when I see a cop cross over the line as many others do; it's maddening. But, I keep it in perspective and realize it's the exception and not the rule.

I hope your world gets better.
 
Appears FowVay is doing the exact thing this thread is about, false accusation against dnewton3 ... the South Bend thing. I've flagged that post to the mods as a personal attack.
 
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Originally Posted by grampi
FowVay sounds like a person who lived in a neighborhood where most of the people there lived and operated on the wrong side of the law as a part of daily life. How else does one become this anti-police?

Probably living somewhere the police are corrupt.


I doubt that. He probably lives where crime is normal every day life and the police are just trying to do their jobs...the police are hated in those neighborhoods...
 
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