Northern Lights 6K Genset Rot T4 200Hrs OCI

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Hello all,

Decided to do an analysis on the genset for my workboat. Its a Northern Lights M673L3 6KW powered by a Shibaura 3 cylinder mechanical injection diesel, heat exchanger cooled. The manufactuer recommends a 200hr oil service interval which has been followed since new. Unit has a little over 1000hrs on it currently and has used 15w-40 its whole life, either Rotella or Delo. I cut open the filter every oil change and have found nothing to cause alarm. It is usually loaded to 25% of capacity most of the time. Every 50 or so hours I load it up 90% capacity and run it for two or three hours as a semi load test. Overall, we have had zero issues with it and expect it to run a long time. However, the elevated iron and aluminum concern me a bit. I am pretty positive the head and block are both iron and pistons are aluminum. But, why would all that aluminum be coming from the pistons?



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T4 is a conventional oil, either shorten your oil change interval, or step up to Rotella T6 full synthetic.
 
I have a Kohler 5e in my boat- twin cyl Kawasaki gas. I do not recall if I ever did a UOA on it. Fuel is only a trace. I would do a sample at 50 hours for UOA and just track it, perhaps pay for a Dyson test ? I understand your worry- marine diesel engines and generators always cost a fortune to repair, so if changing oil sooner or using Rotella T6 helps out, then go for it.. I had never heard of Shibara before, but my google-fu says they are an old Japanese company and seem to have bought or acquired the old Perkins engine line. Copper and Sodium always seem to be in marine engines with heat exchangers, so in moderate amounts I do not get bothered by it.
 
My Kubota (also 3 cyl manual inj.) manual also had 200 hr OCI's. Never followed it. Just doing the math; On a vehicle 100hr x 60 mph = 6000 miles. So 200 Hr =12,000 miles on conventional oil? No way I would push it that far. (Yeah, I know that's not apples to apples, but still think it's a fair comparison IMHO)

You didn't indicate how many Hr/yr it runs, but every oil manufacturer I've seen always recommends "X" number of miles or 1 year which ever comes first. Most engine manufacturers usually indicate this also. For no more oil than that crankcase holds, I'd go 100/Hr or or yearly max.
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I don't have any data on this engine, so I cannot comment specifically to any averages or trends.

However, the wear rate seems very high for the exposure duration.

It's often hard to translate hours to miles; I agree that we can use that as a tool but must recognize that it's not a direct equation. The aforementioned formula jetmech1 suggests isn't necessarily wrong, but it's not guaranteed to be right, either. You have to make some presumptions in his assertion that may not be true. We cannot really say that 200 hours is akin to 12k miles. While it's a bit easier with a land-based vehicle, it's nearly impossible to do so with engines that don't "travel" some unit of measure we are accustomed to. Generators, excavators, tractors, etc don't accumulate "miles" and therefore we struggle to make sense of it. Hours are the only measuring tool that is reasonable. Since you only load it to near full (90%) rarely, and you seem to load it lightly (25%) most of the time, I'd say that it's not severe loading that's the issue; it's not like you're running it full tilt at WOT all the time by any stretch.

You don't mention how long the gen-set runs? Does it see frequent start/stop cycles where it does not fully come up to temp? Does it run all day at a nice steady temp? What temp is "normal", anyway??? Does it give you an actual temp value, or just a gauge with a "range" of cold, normal and hot? It is not uncommon for marine engines that use the sea/lake water as a cooling medium to run "cold" versus what we would normally see in a land-based vehicle. Whereas most cars/trucks/tractors get up to around 200-225F at operating temp, boat engines struggle to see 150F (or even lower), and so they actually incur more wear because the lubes at not really at full temp. I know you said it has a heat exchanger, but is it a self-contained system or an open loop system? Some folks have actually had better luck with a thinner lube, because the thinner lubes work well in the cooler temps of marine equipment; essentially the thinner HDEO will flow a bit better and is closer to the right vis value at the lower temps. You can try T6 5w-40, but I doubt it will solve any issue. Higher wear trends are often not assuaged by a syn; doesn't work that way.

The OEM OCI at 200 hours may be a bit too long ... don't know for sure, but there are ways you can find out.My suggestions:
- take a UOA at 50 hours next time (you don't have to change lube, but at least get a sample) and then at 100, 150, 200 hours, and see if the wear rates are similar, or does it begin to escalate at some point?
- get a PC at 100 hours, and then at 200 hours. See if your filter is overloaded and going into bypass (I doubt it, but since you didn't mention what filter is uses ... hard for me to tell)
- if you cannot seem to lower the wear rate with altering the OCI duration, then consider a thinner HDEO (10w-30) to start with

It's not time to panic; just stay the course, dig deeper and see if you can ascertain if this is "normal" wear or something is amiss? The best way to tell is to sample a few times along the way, and see if you can discover if the wear trend is steady or increasing at some point.
 
A closed cooled genset should have no issue reaching and maintaining correct operating temperature unless there is an issue with the thermostat. Gensets are rarely stopped and started frequently. One only turns one on when expecting to use AC power for an extended period of time.

The cool running issue is one of seawater cooled engines. They can't operate with the cooling jackets above around 150 degrees because salt impaction becomes a real issue.

Northern Lights gensets are definitely among the better units by a good margin. Would not expect to see this kind of thing at 1000 hours. I would sample at 50 and 100 hours to see if a shorter OCI will knock that trend down.
 
Thanks for all the insight folks!
The thermostat is a 167 degree one and is stock from the factory. The temp gauge usually runs around 180 from what I can tell. I usually start the generator in the morning and shut it down at the end of the day, not much short cycling going on at all. The only time it would get started and stopped during the day is if we stop to get fuel for the outboards. The engine has only seen genuine Northern Lights oil filters. I have always been on the edge about switching to a synthetic, but I think next time I am going to put some T6 in it and then do a few UOAs. I don't mind shortening the OCI to 150, but from what I have gathered 200 hours on a diesel genset shouldn't be hard to achieve. What do you guys think would cause the viscosity to get down that low? Not the normal fuel dilution.
 
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I would go with an oil like Rotella T6 5W40.

I have run that in several diesel engine I have owned. It will be in my Ford once I use up the other CJ4 oil I bought because of Ford Powerstroke and CK oils.
 
Whatever you do, don't "shotgun" the fix by throwing a bunch of stuff at it all at the same time, or you'll never know what worked or didn't work to help out.

I don't think T6 is going to perform magic, but by all means try it. However, don't do that, AND shorten the OCI, And ... all at the same time, or you'll have no idea what "fixed" the issue, if any improvement does happen.

First, try sticking with the dino HDEO, but sample (not OCI) at a 50 hours, then 100, then 200. See if the wear rates are changing.

If that does not work, THEN try a different lube. If that does not work, try a different filter. etc ...

Or, be like most BITOGers and guess your way through this and then proclaim success based on hyperbole ...
 
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^^^^^Agree.

Going to syn is the last thing I would be doing with that gen set right now. Synthetics alone do not transform an engine that sheds metals at a high rate into one that does not. We're talking name brand HDEO. It's not like Delo and Rotella dino are mediocre oils that barely scrape by. These are good oils that historically succeed at allowing diesel engines to live nearly forever.

Use the same oil, and sample at 50, 100, 200, as d stated above. That's your best place to start.
 
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
^^^^^Agree.

Going to syn is the last thing I would be doing with that gen set right now. Synthetics alone do not transform an engine that sheds metals at a high rate into one that does not. We're talking name brand HDEO. It's not like Delo and Rotella dino are mediocre oils that barely scrape by. These are good oils that historically succeed at allowing diesel engines to live nearly forever.

Use the same oil, and sample at 50, 100, 200, as d stated above. That's your best place to start.


I agree very much with dnewton3 and DoubleWasp. Nothing against T6 or any other synthetic, but dino HDEO can handle much more than what the OP is asking of it. To just shorten the OCI and call it good, isn't going to answer any questions about what's going on. The multiple samples within a normal OCI could give you a better look at things. I just don't see the oil itself coming up short on performance in this case.
 
Sounds like a plan. I will stick with the dino and do a few samples to see where the wear starts creeping up. Unfortunately, I think we are at about 175 hours right now, so I will be changing it soon and then wait until 50 hours and do my first sample.
 
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Originally Posted by nicklx
Sounds like a plan. I will stick with the dino and do a few samples to see where the wear starts creeping up. Unfortunately, I think we are at about 175 hours right now, so I will be changing it soon and then wait until 50 hours and do my first sample.


That's fine. If you finish the current OCI and get a second 200 hour sample tested, it'll add another piece of data and that's a good thing. It may look much better or maybe much worse but another report is ideal. If it looks ugly, all the more reason to get a few samples within one OCI next time.

The viscosity suggests that there's possibly a few percent of fuel in there. When I was getting 2-4% fuel in my heavy duty diesels, it really didn't show much extra wear metal, so I'm not sure if it's the problem with this engine or not.
 
What make / model of boat ? Is it really required to run the genset all day ? I generally do not run mine if I am cruising, but if I need a/c or batteries charge I will turn it on. I was wondering if yours runs at 3600 rpm, or 1800 rpm spinning the generator side at 2x. Either way- gensets typically go right up to the rated rpm right at first start. I figure its old enough to not be an inverter style anyhow, and I am not familiar with inverter gensets on boats anyhow. Also, are you sure the filter is rated for that exact application ? As suggested previously, cut open the filter and see whats up. I keep my boat on Kent Narrows.

(never mind, I see you said a Parker 34. Thats a big genset for a 34 ! )
 
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It really takes a lot to repair generator. But when choosing to repairing, we should select correct repair technology.

I usually call the supply for maintenance and repair as it is cheaper.
 
I average about 3,000 miles per 100 hours of use in my Semi truck. It idles 20-30% of the time while I load and unload and need AC to not die in Florida.

Just as a point of reference to the previously suggested 6,000 miles per 100 hours estimate.

The question is, how hard on an engine is extended idling?

With 25% Load most of the time, I don't think it's running that hard but perhaps it's hard on the engine regardless of oil or OCI. I'm willing to bet that PPM / Mile may not change much even if you cut the OCI in half and use synthetic.
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Who knows. Let's find out?!
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With that much run time and no cold starting needed I would consider running SAE 40 (ie Delo 400)

Changing from Rotella T4 to T6 is doing nothing but only giving you more cold starting ability.

Otherwise if you want to stay with multigrade oil I would consider Delvac MX or Delo 400 Multigrade (not LE) ; has more add pack than regular "on highway" CK4 oil.
 
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