Medical equipment question

[53' Stude]

Good chilly afternoon BITOGERS

As some of you know, i am a 37 year old healthy and give or take few lbs overweight man. I donate platelets about every 2-3 weeks. My question is regarding the gage size of needles and or syringes. The needle they use when i donate platelets is very small at least i think. I am not afraid of needles and they dont bother me as i must have inherited my moms and brothers good veins

Thank you folks and any info and knowledge is much appreciated

GO STEELERS and LA RAMS

 

[RayCJ]

18, 20 and 22 are the most common for adults. Sometimes 24 for younger folks or those with small veins.

Regards

Ray

(Medical Device Engineer)

PS: Letting the alcohol wipe completely dry is what takes most of the initial sting out of the poke.

 

[53' Stude]

Originally Posted by RayCJ
18, 20 and 22 are the most common for adults. Sometimes 24 for younger folks or those with small veins.

Regards

Ray

(Medical Device Engineer)

PS: Letting the alcohol wipe completely dry is what takes most of the initial sting out of the poke.


Thank You Ray

Is the smaller the number mean larger needle or? Thanks again sir

 

[PimTac]

The larger the number, the smaller the needle. The numbers refer to a needle gauge.

 

[spasm3]

I have never used blood donation needles but i think they are around 16g ( 1.27mm od) which is large. The larger the gauge number the smaller it is. Common peripheral IV gauges are 18-22 for adults, 20g the average, 21/22g for older patients with small or friable veins( from iv cancer meds).

I've used a fair number if 20-21/22 gauge for iv starts. If good visible veins i usually start with 20g. Nice plump veins that you can see with no tourniquet, i start with an 18.

 

[53' Stude]

Originally Posted by PimTac
The larger the number, the smaller the needle. The numbers refer to a needle gauge.


Thanks PimTac

Good that you are here and well sir

Originally Posted by spasm3
I have never used blood donation needles but i think they are around 16g ( 1.27mm od) which is large. The larger the gauge number the smaller it is. Common peripheral IV gauges are 18-22 for adults, 20g the average, 21/22g for older patients with small or friable veins( from iv cancer meds).

I've used a fair number if 20-21/22 gauge for iv starts. If good visible veins i usually start with 20g.


Something i also wondered is why do the doctors, nurses put IV needle in the vein on top of your hand?

Thank You folks and sorry I'm dumb on some medical knowledge

 

[mk378]

Any modern platelet machine or other blood donation uses a sealed system. They are going to use the same size needle for everyone, the one that comes already attached to the set.

Veins in the hand don't move around when you bend your arm. So they're better for an IV that is going to be left in place for an extended time especially for low-volume flows like injecting drugs.

 

[53' Stude]

Thank you mk378. Very good info

 

[Doc8404]

Originally Posted by RayCJ
18, 20 and 22 are the most common for adults. Sometimes 24 for younger folks or those with small veins.

Regards

Ray

(Medical Device Engineer)

PS: Letting the alcohol wipe completely dry is what takes most of the initial sting out of the poke.



maybe for IVs....but not for blood donation.

They would damage the blood cells if they were that small.

Hope this isn't your area of expertise.

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted by 53' Stude


Something i also wondered is why do the doctors, nurses put IV needle in the vein on top of your hand?

Thank You folks and sorry I'm dumb on some medical knowledge


The veins on the top of the hand, if large enough are not very deep and easier to see/feel, but they can roll as you stick them and blow.

You can start some inside of the forearm, but near the inside of the wrist they hurt more, and can be positional and not flow well. Plus on thin people you don't want to find the radial or ulnar artery by mistake!

Our CRNAs frequently start them on the thumb side of the forearm laterally from the radial artery.


You start out as distal as possible , sometimes veins roll and are weak and blows( develops a leak and swelling). When that happens you go more proximal. You don't want to start an iv in the same vein, distal to where it has blown. Some medications are simply not good outside of the circulatory system. ( dopamine, levophed etc.) So you leave your options open when you start at the hand and then work your way up. I usually try twice and then let someone else stick. This usually makes the patient feel reassured. Steroid use for pulmonary issues, being dehydrated, chemo meds, low blood pressure from shock, etc can make the veins more difficult to stick successfully.

Successful heart failure treatment means you are a bit dry and the veins are not as plump and are difficult to stick.

Generally people who are in good enough condition to donate generally have good veins. I donate regularly as i am O-negative. I have yet to have anyone fail to stick my antecubital , so i think the donor staff are pretty good and have experience.

Waiting for bbhero to chime in here!

 

[53' Stude]

spasm3, thank you for all the valuable knowledge

 

[KneeGrinder]

Originally Posted by spasm3
I have never used blood donation needles but i think they are around 16g ( 1.27mm od) which is large. The larger the gauge number the smaller it is. Common peripheral IV gauges are 18-22 for adults, 20g the average, 21/22g for older patients with small or friable veins( from iv cancer meds).

I've used a fair number if 20-21/22 gauge for iv starts. If good visible veins i usually start with 20g. Nice plump veins that you can see with no tourniquet, i start with an 18.


IV Cancer Chemotherapy/ Immunotherapy are normally 22's and they often have a hard time hitting veins, the needles bend like crazy! And Veins move!

Blood draws are normally 20 gauge.

If your getting hit with 20 gauge or lower=larger, you will know it! They start to hurt a little, unless the person is experienced and pokes you fast, and this is coming from someone that is not needle shy, and has been poked a million times. "Not" a drug addict!

 

[jhellwig]

I used to give platlets when my heamglobulin would cooperate every two weeks. Got some medical issues keeping me from donating for the time being.

They told me the needle is smaller than the one used for whole blood. I have had several issues with the platlet machine. Loosing veins. Blow outs. High return pressure. All that is not fun. Had the tech hit the restart on the machine when it went down on high return pressure. Could feel the pump inflate my arm

The good thing is I have a high platlet cound so it goes fast when I don't clog the machine up. That takes forever when it keeps plugging up.

 

[blupupher]

Where I donate for apheresis blood donation they use a 15 gauge needle (an oddball size, usually they are even numbers, but the tech showed me the package).
As for the location for the blood donation, they go for the anti-cubital (AC) vein (bend of the elbow), it is a big vein, flows well and is pretty easy to hit.

As for just regular IV's, AC and forearm are the most common in the ER, easy to hit, draws blood well, and are usable for any testing and medication administration.
Biggest con of the AC is you need to keep the arm straight for best flow.

Hand veins tend to hurt more, don't draw blood as well and can't be used for some testing (CTA primarily). I rarely start them there unless there is no other option.

Which size has several factors. blood draw works best with 18-22g, 24g has issues with hemolyzing and clotting. Also what is needed to be given plays a big factor. If it is for anesthesia, a 22g in the hand will work, if doing a lot of fluid/blood replacement, you need an 18G or larger in the AC.
Sometimes it just comes down to what is available.

I don't agree with those that say catheter size changes the pain. They all hurt. Pain is a relative thing.
I have started 24g in adults that scream like they are dying, and 18g in a 13 year old that said it was just a pinch.
Some areas hurt more than others (hand/wrist is the most painful, regardless of size), and sometimes you just hit near a nerve ending that hurts.

I have had times when I donate that I feel just the pinch of the needle going in, but other times (is the same location) that hurt the whole time I am giving.

 

[Leo99]

They use 27-gauge for eye injections. Still gives me shudders thinking about that.

 

[KneeGrinder]

Originally Posted by Leo99
They use 27-gauge for eye injections. Still gives me shudders thinking about that.


WTH, I hope I never have to get poked in the eye! Besides setting broken bones, the most pain full place I recall getting poked was in the fore head, and they warned me it was going to be a shocker, it still hurt and shocked me.


Recently in a hospital, an RN injected me with lidocaine a minute before placing an IV, it was a nice experience. They did one hand, and other side, upper fore arm.

 

[hemitruck]

Originally Posted by 53' Stude
Originally Posted by PimTac
The larger the number, the smaller the needle. The numbers refer to a needle gauge.


Thanks PimTac

Good that you are here and well sir

Originally Posted by spasm3
I have never used blood donation needles but i think they are around 16g ( 1.27mm od) which is large. The larger the gauge number the smaller it is. Common peripheral IV gauges are 18-22 for adults, 20g the average, 21/22g for older patients with small or friable veins( from iv cancer meds).

I've used a fair number if 20-21/22 gauge for iv starts. If good visible veins i usually start with 20g.


Something i also wondered is why do the doctors, nurses put IV needle in the vein on top of your hand?

Thank You folks and sorry I'm dumb on some medical knowledge



Mostly because iv sights have to be rotated. So, if admitted from the er, the floors can work their way up the arm for new sights.