With newer vehicles getting more MPG will the cost of fuel rise to keep profits up or does supply and demand still rule use more pay more??
More MPG = higher gas prices?
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They strategize finding new wells depending on the forecast price over X time. They would also have to strategize new equipment, technologies, geologists on-staff, etc.
On the shorter term they shut down one refinery at a time for maintenance, unless the price is really sagging.
Even if the US is using less, or increasing its use less, there's the export/ China market to plan for.
States are complaining about more efficient cars pounding the roads more for less tax revenue, but they've subsidized roads from the general fund forever, just a question of how much and if the political will is there for a tax/fee increase.
On the shorter term they shut down one refinery at a time for maintenance, unless the price is really sagging.
Even if the US is using less, or increasing its use less, there's the export/ China market to plan for.
States are complaining about more efficient cars pounding the roads more for less tax revenue, but they've subsidized roads from the general fund forever, just a question of how much and if the political will is there for a tax/fee increase.
The US already exports refined product.
They raised tax on gas some places to pay for roads. It costs a fortune to replace and repair roads and why shouldn't those who wear the roads more pay more? They want to put a flat tax on full electric cars per year as right now they use roads and don't pay to fix them like people who buy gas. I hope they do. I don't think it is because people are buying less gas that prices rise, because prices also fall arbitrarily too. Cars, planes, trucks, busses, are consuming a lot of oil and it isn't stopping any time soon.
Anytime you can save on fuel whether by better fuel economy or less driving that is real money in your pocket. The long term trend for gas prices is up and up.
As for tax deficiencies, states and municipalities have been using the gas tax money for projects other than roads and transportation. It is just another tax.
As for tax deficiencies, states and municipalities have been using the gas tax money for projects other than roads and transportation. It is just another tax.
Supply and demand rules. Market forces. Forbes had a long-term analysis about the impact of future (next 20 years) of electric/hybrid vehicles becoming more common, and it lowered the price of crude oil because of a less-ravenous demand for oil around the world.
Originally Posted by goodtimes
They raised tax on gas some places to pay for roads. It costs a fortune to replace and repair roads and why shouldn't those who wear the roads more pay more? They want to put a flat tax on full electric cars per year as right now they use roads and don't pay to fix them like people who buy gas. I hope they do. I don't think it is because people are buying less gas that prices rise, because prices also fall arbitrarily too..
It's the trucks that do almost all of the damage to the roads. Car drivers basically subsidize the roads for them.
Vote yes on Prop 6.
They raised tax on gas some places to pay for roads. It costs a fortune to replace and repair roads and why shouldn't those who wear the roads more pay more? They want to put a flat tax on full electric cars per year as right now they use roads and don't pay to fix them like people who buy gas. I hope they do. I don't think it is because people are buying less gas that prices rise, because prices also fall arbitrarily too..
It's the trucks that do almost all of the damage to the roads. Car drivers basically subsidize the roads for them.
Vote yes on Prop 6.
Originally Posted by Dave1027
Originally Posted by goodtimes
They raised tax on gas some places to pay for roads. It costs a fortune to replace and repair roads and why shouldn't those who wear the roads more pay more? They want to put a flat tax on full electric cars per year as right now they use roads and don't pay to fix them like people who buy gas. I hope they do. I don't think it is because people are buying less gas that prices rise, because prices also fall arbitrarily too..
It's the trucks that do almost all of the damage to the roads. Car drivers basically subsidize the roads for them.
Vote yes on Prop 6.
Tbf buses ruin the roads around here that trucks don't, but you are correct. The worst are railway crossings near commercial/industrial areas, yikes!
Originally Posted by goodtimes
They raised tax on gas some places to pay for roads. It costs a fortune to replace and repair roads and why shouldn't those who wear the roads more pay more? They want to put a flat tax on full electric cars per year as right now they use roads and don't pay to fix them like people who buy gas. I hope they do. I don't think it is because people are buying less gas that prices rise, because prices also fall arbitrarily too..
It's the trucks that do almost all of the damage to the roads. Car drivers basically subsidize the roads for them.
Vote yes on Prop 6.
Tbf buses ruin the roads around here that trucks don't, but you are correct. The worst are railway crossings near commercial/industrial areas, yikes!
I'm not sure where all this crude is going? I'm reading that most refineries are over 90 percent capacity, that seems rather high for peace times. Since the US is the number one producer of oil in the world, we need more refineries. Refineries should have some reserve capacity, running near 100% near all the time tells me there is room in the market for competition. Also the market "shocks" when refineries retool for summer/winter blends tell us there is not enough competition in the supply chain.
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Much of the MPG increases are offset by the fact that trucks and crossovers are still increasing their market share over cars - which are more fuel efficient. a member recently pulled alot of data from Fuelly to reinforce that claim.
Originally Posted by PimTac
As for tax deficiencies, states and municipalities have been using the gas tax money for projects other than roads and transportation. It is just another tax.
No. https://taxfoundation.org/state-gasoline-tax-rates-2017/
As for tax deficiencies, states and municipalities have been using the gas tax money for projects other than roads and transportation. It is just another tax.
No. https://taxfoundation.org/state-gasoline-tax-rates-2017/
It's supply and demand. But lots of things influence demand beyond MPGs like population growth, vehicle-miles-traveled, and overall economic growth. And lots of thing influence supply like the state of our pipeline infrastructure, trade relations, trade wars, and other insecurities that make markets nervous. Personally, I'd love to see WTI trade in the $40s for a couple of years just to destabilize Russia. Congress hasn't touched the gas tax since 1993, which is pretty darned negligent, just passing on infrastructure funding needs to the states or using funding mechanisms that rob Peter to pay Paul. There's a lot more going on than MPGs. As far as refineries, the US became the number 1 exporter of petro products under Obama. Prices are pretty low. The supply of refined product is clearly pretty strong. Shareholders demand operating efficiency in a market enterprise system; it makes no sense to leave non-productive capacity on the table.
Originally Posted by Dave1027
It's the trucks that do almost all of the damage to the roads. Car drivers basically subsidize the roads for them.
Vote yes on Prop 6.
Absolutely. Wear follows the fourth power of axle weight. If trucking legitimately had to pay more than their fair share their marketing and lobbyists would be all over the facts. Instead they're hiding under the bed.
I don't care-- as a taxpayer I support infrastructure so commerce can happen and we can have the nice things of a functioning society.
I don't subsidize them by driving my car. I do by paying income tax. I might by paying $100-ish a year on my f150 that drives under 1000 miles a year, but that's the price I get for the luxury of a 2nd vehicle.
I remember, not too long ago, when we were talking about national security issues and the weak dollar caused by having 40% imported oil. Glad we're beyond that. Hope we can remember.
It's the trucks that do almost all of the damage to the roads. Car drivers basically subsidize the roads for them.
Vote yes on Prop 6.
Absolutely. Wear follows the fourth power of axle weight. If trucking legitimately had to pay more than their fair share their marketing and lobbyists would be all over the facts. Instead they're hiding under the bed.
I don't care-- as a taxpayer I support infrastructure so commerce can happen and we can have the nice things of a functioning society.
I don't subsidize them by driving my car. I do by paying income tax. I might by paying $100-ish a year on my f150 that drives under 1000 miles a year, but that's the price I get for the luxury of a 2nd vehicle.
I remember, not too long ago, when we were talking about national security issues and the weak dollar caused by having 40% imported oil. Glad we're beyond that. Hope we can remember.
I recall seeing a news story several years ago that the government (VA I think) was going to raise their gas tax because of lost revenue due to more fuel efficient vehicles. Government working against itself.
In the days following 9/11/2001 when all the airlines were grounded and not using any fuel the price of gasoline fell.
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New vehicles are not more efficient than older vehicles when they were new (unless you are speaking of hybrid/electric vehicles).
Majority of vehicles in N. America are gas burners, that are larger in size and weight than their predecessors.
Just another ruse to justify charging consumers more in general.
Majority of vehicles in N. America are gas burners, that are larger in size and weight than their predecessors.
Just another ruse to justify charging consumers more in general.
Every one talks about new cars are more efficient
I had B210 that got 41 hwy and 29 city which cost 2900 brand new. There slogan was higher gas prices get more you save. I can go on and on. Parents couldn't afford gas so we bought Volkswagen, Pinto, or anything they could fit 4 kids in. And yes you get 4 small kids in a Bug. Problem now is people want heavy trucks not small cars with most never hauling anything and less than 3 children. If people would look at fuel economy and money saved by staying home more there would be cleaner air and cheaper full. As long as we pay 3.00 and up and still drive trucks at 20 mpg (if you are lucky) then we will only see higher prices. So to answer the question Americans will never worry about cost or better MPG until fuel prices get so high we can't afford it.
I had B210 that got 41 hwy and 29 city which cost 2900 brand new. There slogan was higher gas prices get more you save. I can go on and on. Parents couldn't afford gas so we bought Volkswagen, Pinto, or anything they could fit 4 kids in. And yes you get 4 small kids in a Bug. Problem now is people want heavy trucks not small cars with most never hauling anything and less than 3 children. If people would look at fuel economy and money saved by staying home more there would be cleaner air and cheaper full. As long as we pay 3.00 and up and still drive trucks at 20 mpg (if you are lucky) then we will only see higher prices. So to answer the question Americans will never worry about cost or better MPG until fuel prices get so high we can't afford it.
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I try not to worry about things I can't control. I buy the cars I actually want, but I am conscientious about gas mileage. My new Mustang 5.0 gets 27 on a trip and low 20s just commuting and driving around town. I could save by driving an econobox but just don't want to suffer too much with first world problems. I wouldn't commute in a truck as they can get pretty bad mileage unless you have one of the most modern ones.
Originally Posted by eljefino
Originally Posted by Dave1027
It's the trucks that do almost all of the damage to the roads. Car drivers basically subsidize the roads for them.
Vote yes on Prop 6.
Absolutely. Wear follows the fourth power of axle weight. If trucking legitimately had to pay more than their fair share their marketing and lobbyists would be all over the facts. Instead they're hiding under the bed.
I don't care-- as a taxpayer I support infrastructure so commerce can happen and we can have the nice things of a functioning society.
I don't subsidize them by driving my car. I do by paying income tax. I might by paying $100-ish a year on my f150 that drives under 1000 miles a year, but that's the price I get for the luxury of a 2nd vehicle.
I remember, not too long ago, when we were talking about national security issues and the weak dollar caused by having 40% imported oil. Glad we're beyond that. Hope we can remember.
Are we talking about commercial trucks?
A couple of numbers:
2018 Ford F150 Extended cab 2WD: 4439 lbs
2006 toyota tundra crew cab 2wd: 4,600 lbs
2008 Jeep GC 2WD. 4,400 lbs
2019 Hyundai Kona Electric: 3800 lbs
2018 pacifica: 4,300
2018 sienna: 4,430 to 4,750
So, my 2018 4WD pickup is within 50 lbs of a sienna minivan. (the 4wd ford is 4800). Until you get into compact cars, everything now seems to weigh over 3,000 lbs. A civic weighs in at 2,700.
Originally Posted by Dave1027
It's the trucks that do almost all of the damage to the roads. Car drivers basically subsidize the roads for them.
Vote yes on Prop 6.
Absolutely. Wear follows the fourth power of axle weight. If trucking legitimately had to pay more than their fair share their marketing and lobbyists would be all over the facts. Instead they're hiding under the bed.
I don't care-- as a taxpayer I support infrastructure so commerce can happen and we can have the nice things of a functioning society.
I don't subsidize them by driving my car. I do by paying income tax. I might by paying $100-ish a year on my f150 that drives under 1000 miles a year, but that's the price I get for the luxury of a 2nd vehicle.
I remember, not too long ago, when we were talking about national security issues and the weak dollar caused by having 40% imported oil. Glad we're beyond that. Hope we can remember.
Are we talking about commercial trucks?
A couple of numbers:
2018 Ford F150 Extended cab 2WD: 4439 lbs
2006 toyota tundra crew cab 2wd: 4,600 lbs
2008 Jeep GC 2WD. 4,400 lbs
2019 Hyundai Kona Electric: 3800 lbs
2018 pacifica: 4,300
2018 sienna: 4,430 to 4,750
So, my 2018 4WD pickup is within 50 lbs of a sienna minivan. (the 4wd ford is 4800). Until you get into compact cars, everything now seems to weigh over 3,000 lbs. A civic weighs in at 2,700.
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