15w40 - What minimum temperature?

[Bailes1992]

I think I'm going to give it a try.

I have 16 litres of Fuchs GT1 XTL Pro 5w40 in the garage but I want to get rid of the other stock first. I love the amount of approvals this oil has!

I have no worries about SA of the HDEO because I don't expect the engine to burn any.

My biggest worry was starting it at -10°c on one or two mornings early next year. I think it'll be fine.

Nuttcase if you look up the German label of Castrol Edge 0w30 Dexos 2 it's described as a 'volleysynth' oil. In Germany they can't be calked fully synthetic unless they're a Group 4 or 5 base.

 

[BrocLuno]

One of the biggest concerns with cold starting is battery current flow. Often, the culprit is the Neg (-) or ground cable. Any road salt or the like will cause the terminal low of the engine block to develop crevice corrosion. It'll look fine, but offer considerable resistance and up 0.3v offset. Just what you don't want on a cold day when the battery is weak to start with.

I suggest a crimped and soldered supplementary ground cable, usually to the alternator mounting bracket (higher on the engine) which will help and it will give the voltage regulator a truer "0" to work against. That will make your batter even happier

 

[Bailes1992]

Originally Posted by BrocLuno
One of the biggest concerns with cold starting is battery current flow. Often, the culprit is the Neg (-) or ground cable. Any road salt or the like will cause the terminal low of the engine block to develop crevice corrosion. It'll look fine, but offer considerable resistance and up 0.3v offset. Just what you don't want on a cold day when the battery is weak to start with.

I suggest a crimped and soldered supplementary ground cable, usually to the alternator mounting bracket (higher on the engine) which will help and it will give the voltage regulator a truer "0" to work against. That will make your batter even happier

Not sure this will be a huge issue. The Duster was specifically originally designed to be sold in Russia. I'm sure there's places that get much colder temps than -11°c in Russia where a 5w40 will be thicker than a 15w40 at -11°c.

Also, the car isn't 3 years old yet so I'm sure the battery is perfectly healthy too. I will keep an eye on how things perform as the temperature drops, if I think there's an issue I will swap it out for the Fuchs.

 

[BrocLuno]

I meant as the car/truck ages. Up to 5 years, no problem. And your oil choice will be fine

I'm not familiar with road conditions in winter in the UK ... But it seems there is a history of car rust there (unlike much of Calif), so it's just something to be aware of.

Corrosive conditions take a healthy tole on cars and especially the electrical systems over time. Modern cars are so dependent on digital circuitry, and they almost exclusively rely on crimped connections, many onto non-tinned wire ...

Starting is one thing, but with the advent of 5v logic in many circuits, we are devolving back to near the neighborhood of 6v electrics. And anyone who can remember back to those buggies remembers what it was like fighting aging wire with low voltage.

Not saying you will face any of this, but if you have sluggish starts, just be aware that it might be cold thick oil, but it might also be your electricals ...

One thing to think about (in a global/general sense) is cranking speed. Many motors turn over at 30 RPM or there abouts while starting. At those low crankshaft speeds there is very little difference between oil grades. It has to be a really thick, or partially gelated fluid to even come close to stopping a motor. Viscosity drag is bearing speed dependent. Any oil is good at 1 RPM. SAE 90 gear oil in the crankcase would stop an engine accelerating much above 4,000 RPM at 30*F. Foot to the floor and that is all she'd do. Viscous drag would extreme. So a 40 grade will be fine for the starting motor, but the engine may feel a bit sluggish once it catches and tries to come up to high idle to warm up ...

 

[02SE]

I've started my Cummins 6.7 with Rotella T4 15w40 in the sump, and the block heater not plugged in, several times between 0-10° F, with no sign of any issues.

 

[ofelas]

Around -20c without being plugged in, on a 95 Cummins, with Amsoil 15w40 AME Diesel & Marine oil.

Also found this on the 'web - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oulURyP66QI

 

[Bailes1992]

Just thought I'd follow up this thread.

The 15w40 HDEO went in today.

First thing I noticed that was at 12°c the viscosity difference between the old 5w40 I drained and the fresh 15w40 was next to nothing. Certainly nothing that could be seen by eye.

The engine seems a little quieter I think and I little smoother. The 1.5DCi without a DPF asks for an A3/B4 oil. I suspect our 1.5DCi is enjoying the extra goodies that the 1% SAPS allowance is allowing the oil to have.

Be interesting to see how the car behaves as temperatures drop.

 

[BrianF]

Guys use 15w40 conventional in diesel trucks (light and heavy duty) here year round without any issues. When it gets cold just plug in the block heater. Vehicles long rot away from the elements before having viscosity related engine problems.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
And one of the scientific answers is looking at the Cold Cranking Simulator (CCS) data.

0W. -35 C
5W -30 C
10W -25 C
15W -20 C

It says 15W will crank at a acceptable rate down to -20 C and I believe the anecdotal information supports that. However, if you want to be kind to your engine, at -20 C I personally would use a 0w40 or 5w40 because there are so many good HDEO's avaiable in those weights.

As for your temperatures, absolutely no problem.


When it gets down to those temps, the oil pan heater gets plugged in. Then even a straight 40 flows quite nicely when it is at 90F. And the heat rises from the pan to the internals of the motor when the oil pan is being warmed. Oil pan warmers are one of the best things on the market and fairly economical to use.

 

[Garak]

And of course, up here, they're available right on the shelves of places like Canadian Tire.

 

[vssjim]

Originally Posted by BrianF
Guys use 15w40 conventional in diesel trucks (light and heavy duty) here year round without any issues. When it gets cold just plug in the block heater. Vehicles long rot away from the elements before having viscosity related engine problems.

Same here when it gets cold I just plug it in and it cranks and starts perfect a real difference and the oil really stays cleaner also from the fuel vs cold engine starts

 

[Falcon_LS]

You should have no problems running a 15W-40 in South Wales, particularly Morris HD4 which is an excellent lubricant.

You might want to run a short interval first, and then go with your regular drain interval. It is not uncommon to have oil consumption during the first service interval after switching oils.

 

[NGRhodes]

Originally Posted by Bailes1992
Hi Guys,

Bit of a back story to thus one for those who are interested...

Our Dacia Duster is spec'd for either a 5w30 ACEA C4, 5W30 ACEA C3 or 5w40 ACEA C3 oil.

We bought the car on 3,500miles at 1 year old. The supplying dealer used a 5w30 C4 oil. The oil was being used at a rate of 1 litre every 1000miles.

At 5,000miles I got suspicious that the oil filter didn't get changed at the supplying dealers service. The area was far too clean considering its downwards tilted and the oil filter was ridiculously tight (quite a few mentions online about Dacia's and Renault's with the factory fitted oil filter being very tight). So I changed it out for Shell Helix Ultra AG Dexos 2 5w30 ACEA C3.

Again, this got consumed at a rate of 1 litre per 1000miles, although it did tail off a little towards the end.

When the car hit two years old I got it serviced by a garage for warranty purposes and supplied Fuchs GT1 XTL 5w40. This is a 5w40 ACEA C3 oil are carried s ton of approvals like LL04, 229.5, Dexos 2, 502/505 etc.

And the consumption stopped, dead. It hasn't used a drop of oil since.

6 months later and 5,000miles I'm ready to change the oil again. Probably premature but the car does a llot of short tripping.

I would like to try a 30 weight again in the future (maybe Castrol 0w30 C3/Dexos 2) and see if it starts burning again. But, at the moment I have in my garage 15 litres of Morris Lubricants HD4 15w40. A HDEO that meets ACEA E7 and E9. I see no reason why it would cause any issues in our Dacia for the next year or so.

However, I was concerned about the lowest usable temperature of a 15w oil in this engine. The lowest temperature I've seen since I've been driving is 11C/50F.

Will the 15w40 be fine through winter?


Not sure E7/E9 is suitable, C3/C4 are lower SAPS and E7/E9 could damage your emissions systems, far more costly to fix than saving on a bit of oil, I would not personally risk it.

Whats the coldest overnight temperature you get, your engine block/oil can often be colder than the current temperature in the morning first start, you will probably find 15w40 might put a strain on your battery (mention lots of short trips) in winter.

I'd personally choose a 0w30/5w30 meeting VW 504/507 or BMW LL04 and change annually/12k miles, they stand up well to short trips as suitable for far higher regular miles.

 

[Bailes1992]

So far my Wife has done around 800miles on the 15w40 HDEO. The engine isn't burning a drop and is most definitely smoother on it compared to the 5w40 ACEA C3 oil that was in it previously.

We've had a few below freezing starts this week with no issues what so ever.

I'm personally of the opinion that using an ACEA C3 *w30 with a limited SAPS of 0.8% and burning it at 1 litre every 1000miles is going to be more detrimental to the DPF than an E7/E9 oil with a limited SAPS is 1% that isn't being burned at all.

Once my stocks of this Morris Lubricants HD4 are up I will try Castrol Edge 0w30 Dexos 2 for one interval to see if it's still burning oil or if my Missus lead right foot has fixed it.

 

[NGRhodes]

Originally Posted by Bailes1992
So far my Wife has done around 800miles on the 15w40 HDEO. The engine isn't burning a drop and is most definitely smoother on it compared to the 5w40 ACEA C3 oil that was in it previously.

We've had a few below freezing starts this week with no issues what so ever.

I'm personally of the opinion that using an ACEA C3 *w30 with a limited SAPS of 0.8% and burning it at 1 litre every 1000miles is going to be more detrimental to the DPF than an E7/E9 oil with a limited SAPS is 1% that isn't being burned at all.

Once my stocks of this Morris Lubricants HD4 are up I will try Castrol Edge 0w30 Dexos 2 for one interval to see if it's still burning oil or if my Missus lead right foot has fixed it.


I missed the bit about burning oil. If the E7/E9 does significantly reduce burning, then the SAPS increase won't be an issue, as you say.
15w will still run, I used to run it an old Vauxhall Nova, but I did notice cranking speed slowed down significantly in the coldest winter months of Yorkshire (coldest mornings are -10C).

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
And one of the scientific answers is looking at the Cold Cranking Simulator (CCS) data.

0W. -35 C
5W -30 C
10W -25 C
15W -20 C

It says 15W will crank at a acceptable rate down to -20 C and I believe the anecdotal information supports that. However, if you want to be kind to your engine, at -20 C I personally would use a 0w40 or 5w40 because there are so many good HDEO's avaiable in those weights.

As for your temperatures, absolutely no problem.


Be even kinder to you engine, get an oil pan warmer and plug it in over night. Even a straight 40 weight would flow quite nicely at -20c.