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Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L [Re: StevieC] #4850163 08/24/18 10:38 PM
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Crusher Offline
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StevieC
I really appreciate the YouTube video.
I think it's great that you are exploring the boundaries of a dual bypass filter system. I think that you could benefit from more uoa's in order to establish a longer baseline.
I'm currently 31 months and 91k miles into my dual bypass system run. I've done 10 uoa's and I figured out exactly what I need to do to sustain a healthy TBN, without ever changing my oil.
Here's a link to my last 5 uoa's @88k miles.
88k uoa https://imgur.com/gallery/o5IAiqF
Thanks again for your post and Good luck!


2011 King Ranch Ford Expedition EL 4x4 - 191,000 miles - Amsoil Signature Series 5w-20, BMK 23-EA Dual Bypass Filter
Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L [Re: StevieC] #4850544 08/25/18 11:44 AM
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StevieC Offline OP
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cheers


'18 Caravan - 40k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w20, Fram Ultra, TC-W3 500:1
'06 Santa Fe - 535k KM (Retired)

There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluids! mad
Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L [Re: StevieC] #4850817 08/25/18 06:10 PM
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CT8 Offline
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How much did the 10 UOAs cost? How much for the Bypass setup? How much are the replacment filters and 8+ qts of add oil? I am trying to do the math.

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L [Re: StevieC] #4851071 08/25/18 09:40 PM
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CT8
That is an excellent question.
I'll answer it the best way I can.
Let's compare it to what I was paying while my expedition was under warranty ( 100k miles )
I brought my own Mobil 1 to my local Ford Dealership approx every 5k miles and my cost was $75. 90k miles worth of oil changes is $1425. Not to mention the time involved getting my oil changed 19 times. Substantial!
Fast forward to the Amsoil Bypass Filter Setup. The Bypass Filter unit is $253. I run the big filters ( like the F250 Powerstroke diesels)
I run the Eao -26(25k mile filter) which costs $17 and the EaBP 100(70k mile filter) which costs $37. A gallon of the Amsoil SS 5w-20 is $37.50. From the beginning I've used 4 full flow filters 4x $17 is $68, 2 bypass filters 2x $37 is $74. 2 gallons of oil. 2x $37.50 is $75. The uoa's are $30 a piece. So 10 x $30 is $300.
So all total
$253 bypass unit
$68 full flow filters
$74 bypass filters
$75 Oil
$300 uoa's
$770 subtotal
$61.6 tax

$831.60 Total

Going fwd I'll be doing uoa's between full flow filter changes only. After 10 uoa's I have an excellent baseline. For example @212.5k miles, 237.5k miles, 262.k miles, 287.5k miles etc.


2011 King Ranch Ford Expedition EL 4x4 - 191,000 miles - Amsoil Signature Series 5w-20, BMK 23-EA Dual Bypass Filter
Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L [Re: Crusher] #4851232 08/26/18 06:33 AM
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kschachn Offline
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So you take your vehicle into the dealership for a grossly overpriced oil change but you donít list a labor cost for the bypass install? Thatís not exactly a valid comparison. If you do your own oil changes (and did the bypass install yourself or listed the labor cost for installation) the cost differential would be much different.


1994 BMW 530i, 246K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 420K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 281K
Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L [Re: StevieC] #4851459 08/26/18 01:11 PM
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kschachn

Thank you for pointing out that I forgot to include the cost of the install. My mistake.
I have a welder who does work for me on my ranch.
He charged me $100 for Fabrication, Welding and Install.
So all total
$253 bypass unit
$100 installation
$68 full flow filters
$74 bypass filters
$75 Oil
$300 uoa's
$770 subtotal†
$61.6 tax

$931.60 Total


Here's what the setup looks like.
https://imgur.com/a/D9dwr
https://imgur.com/a/sksf5


2011 King Ranch Ford Expedition EL 4x4 - 191,000 miles - Amsoil Signature Series 5w-20, BMK 23-EA Dual Bypass Filter
Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L [Re: StevieC] #4851573 08/26/18 03:37 PM
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CT8 Offline
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The M1 will provide a longer service life then 5,000 miles.

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L [Re: CT8] #4851632 08/26/18 04:46 PM
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CT8
You are correct. M1 can certainly go longer than a 5k oci. It was my intention to do 7500 mile oci's, but it seemed like I often changed the oil early due to frequent long road trips. I figured that it was better to error on the side of caution.


2011 King Ranch Ford Expedition EL 4x4 - 191,000 miles - Amsoil Signature Series 5w-20, BMK 23-EA Dual Bypass Filter
Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L [Re: Crusher] #4851665 08/26/18 05:16 PM
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kschachn Offline
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Originally Posted By: Crusher
CT8
You are correct. M1 can certainly go longer than a 5k oci. It was my intention to do 7500 mile oci's, but it seemed like I often changed the oil early due to frequent long road trips. I figured that it was better to error on the side of caution.

Well the long trips are easier on the oil than short ones. If you predominately take longer trips then it is more likely the M1 would go out to the guaranteed limit.


1994 BMW 530i, 246K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 420K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 281K
Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L [Re: ZeeOSix] #4855392 08/30/18 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by thescreensavers
Little confused from the paperwork shown,

Jan 2nd Lube time was 1894 Mi and miles on car was 62944mi

So the oil sample is about 12k miles?

Also how many filter changes where there? The filter is stated to take 1qt.


I don't hear exactly how many quarts of new oil was installed over the 60K miles on this oil. He said 1 qt at the bypass filter change, but did he add any along the way from oil consumption. The description info on the YouTube video says:

"In this video I talk about my 2013 Town and Country minivan in which I started using Amsoil oil in it at 18,000 miles(I've been a dealer for 18+ years). I have since installed a bypass filter unit and have begun to you use oil analysis for extended drain intervals. This will be my second oil analysis that I have submitted and I talk about the results and how I am able to continue to drive on the same oil I put in almost 60,000 miles ago."


For AmSoil to have so much experience at advertising, you would think they would tube up a video that does not have so many holes in it.
The very statement that it is the same oil as 60k ago is false in itself.
This does not encourage me to go out and get their product.

Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L [Re: StevieC] #4863344 09/08/18 11:25 AM
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Ihatetochangeoil Offline
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Misinformation Gentlemen...You don't have to listen to the soundtrack on the video, READ the UOA report. From about 0:35 to 1:15 on the video, the headings on the second column of the data read Date Sampled, Date Received, Lube Time, Unit Time, Lube Change, Lube ADDED is zero (0) and neither has the filter been changed. He IS running on the same lube for 60K miles.

Not trying to "pick on" anyone here, let's just READ THE DATA. BTW. another poster has complained about the aluminum and copper...well, the test lab didn't flag them, but it seems some armchair tribologist on BITOG doesn't like them. Tough. Do whatever lets you sleep at night, and the OP can do likewise.

However, the grim reaper is the TBN, which, however slow, IS on an irreversible path down, so an eventual oil change is inevitable. But not today. Thanks to the OP for sharing.

Originally Posted by beanoil
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by thescreensavers
Little confused from the paperwork shown,

Jan 2nd Lube time was 1894 Mi and miles on car was 62944mi

So the oil sample is about 12k miles?

Also how many filter changes where there? The filter is stated to take 1qt.


I don't hear exactly how many quarts of new oil was installed over the 60K miles on this oil. He said 1 qt at the bypass filter change, but did he add any along the way from oil consumption. The description info on the YouTube video says:

"In this video I talk about my 2013 Town and Country minivan in which I started using Amsoil oil in it at 18,000 miles(I've been a dealer for 18+ years). I have since installed a bypass filter unit and have begun to you use oil analysis for extended drain intervals. This will be my second oil analysis that I have submitted and I talk about the results and how I am able to continue to drive on the same oil I put in almost 60,000 miles ago."


For AmSoil to have so much experience at advertising, you would think they would tube up a video that does not have so many holes in it.
The very statement that it is the same oil as 60k ago is false in itself.
This does not encourage me to go out and get their product.


Whatever
Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L [Re: StevieC] #4890585 10/08/18 05:42 AM
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The hardest thing for most to understand is that this type of OCI practice is so very uncommon, and we have VERY LITTLE for comparative purposes. You cannot look at info like this and try to analyze it in terms of a "normal" UOA, because there are several things which just don't lend themselves to conventional wisdom.

As most know, a UOA is going to see any particle as large as 5um or so, and anything smaller. But most all BP elements (commercially available ones like the Amsoil, MG, FS2500, etc) are all "absolute" around 2um or so, but not so much below that. Hence, any particle that is smaller than 2um has a reasonable chance of staying present in the lube sump for the entire duration of the OCI. Since there are 72k miles on this lube, that is a LOT of residual particulate staying in the sump. I don't care if it's Fe, Cu, soot or whatever, it's still in there if it's smaller than 2um. Which is why we see some substantial Cu in the count. I don't know the source; could be a cooler or could be a bearing. We have no idea. But that does not make it "wrong" to have such high Cu in this UOA. For an equivalent normal value, we'd had to add up the effect of perhaps 15 OCIs worth of Cu presumed to exist under 2um ...
Fe is the commonly accepted tracker of typical normal wear in most UOAs, because it tends to accumulate with exposure. But the Fe here is not nearly as affected as the Cu. That' does not make it wrong; just different. The only time stuff smaller than 2um is removed is when a filter element is changed, and the lube in the filter takes out a portion of the particles left in the OIL, not the media.

I will remind all that stuff this small (2um and smaller) is essentially harmless to the engine in most all cases.

Also, the top off effect with filter changes is difficult to understand. Sure, it bolsters the add-pack a bit, but that also alters the TCB to some degree. No SAE or other entity study data exists that I'm aware of to discuss how these long term effects alter the TCB. We know that the TCB improves with maturity, but there's likely a practical limit to it's growth; probably a parabolic curve that flatten out in terms of layer thickness vs time.

This is anecdotal only because there's very little to compare/contrast it to. We don't know if this is "normal" for this extreme duration or not.

It would be helpful to also have PCs along with these UOAs.

I'll not pass judgement as others have, other than to say it's interesting.

Last edited by dnewton3; 10/08/18 05:44 AM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: 72K miles on Amsoil using Bypass - PentaStar V6 3.6L [Re: dnewton3] #4894777 10/12/18 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dnewton3


...This is anecdotal only because there's very little to compare/contrast it to. We don't know if this is "normal" for this extreme duration or not.

It would be helpful to also have PCs along with these UOAs.

I'll not pass judgement as others have, other than to say it's interesting.


And anytime you add topoff oil, you aid in refreshing the additive package.


The value of a scientific theory is its ability to prompt further study, not that it has any relation to the established facts of scientific reality.
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