111 registered members (77GrandPrix, Anduril, 2015_PSD, alphadog, Alfred_B, 12 invisible),
2,100
guests, and 27
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums67
Topics298,581
Posts5,138,614
Members70,103
|
Most Online3,589 Nov 2nd, 2019
|
|
|
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution
[Re: Highkm]
#4894602
10/12/18 09:35 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,623
Eddie
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,623 |
I wouldn't purchase a "Hobby" vehicle where I need to be concerned about extra oil changes, special valve cleaning regiments and the like. I would wait until HONDA gets their act together. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy my CX5 DI engine that has shown no fuel dilution over a few tenths over three UOAs. Ed
2014 CX5 Touring 2.5L :-)
|
|
|
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution
[Re: Eddie]
#4894972
10/12/18 05:44 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,672
oil_film_movies
|
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,672 |
I wouldn't purchase a "Hobby" vehicle where I need to be concerned about extra oil changes, special valve cleaning regiments and the like. I would wait until HONDA gets their act together. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy my CX5 DI engine that has shown no fuel dilution over a few tenths over three UOAs. Ed Its not that bad. Really all these fuel diluting 1.5T owners need to do is keep the oil near the half-way point, between Add & Full, then in about 4,000 miles into the oil change interval, put in a cup of either STP Oil Treatment (200 cSt KV100) or Schaeffer #132 Moly EP Engine Oil Treatment (238 cSt KV100) thick goop, both very mixable and not harmful, meant to be compatible. Put in another cup at the 8,000 mile point if going the full 10k miles on the oil change. Keeps the visc up where it should be. Also, this lets you document the use of Honda-spec 0w20 in case they want to get nutty about engine failure warranty claims, if it happens. If Highkm the OP (with 5.6 cSt KV100) would have done this, he would have ended up with about ~7.5 cSt at the end, enough to keep the Stribeck curve contented.
Last edited by oil_film_movies; 10/12/18 05:48 PM.
|
|
|
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution
[Re: oil_film_movies]
#4895157
10/12/18 09:19 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,901
Danh
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,901 |
I wouldn't purchase a "Hobby" vehicle where I need to be concerned about extra oil changes, special valve cleaning regiments and the like. I would wait until HONDA gets their act together. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy my CX5 DI engine that has shown no fuel dilution over a few tenths over three UOAs. Ed Its not that bad. Really all these fuel diluting 1.5T owners need to do is keep the oil near the half-way point, between Add & Full, then in about 4,000 miles into the oil change interval, put in a cup of either STP Oil Treatment (200 cSt KV100) or Schaeffer #132 Moly EP Engine Oil Treatment (238 cSt KV100) thick goop, both very mixable and not harmful, meant to be compatible. Put in another cup at the 8,000 mile point if going the full 10k miles on the oil change. Keeps the visc up where it should be. Also, this lets you document the use of Honda-spec 0w20 in case they want to get nutty about engine failure warranty claims, if it happens. If Highkm the OP (with 5.6 cSt KV100) would have done this, he would have ended up with about ~7.5 cSt at the end, enough to keep the Stribeck curve contented. Even if viscosity were the only measure of lubricant effectiveness (it isn’t: my grandmother’s pea soup had a cSt of probably 20-something), what are the odds of the average Honda owner doing as you suggest?
|
|
|
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution
[Re: Highkm]
#4895471
10/13/18 11:50 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,672
oil_film_movies
|
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,672 |
Danh, granted there is a possibility all that extra fuel (up to 20:1 we've seen) might create blacker pistons, no doubt. That's probably about it. Oil has dispersants and cleaning chemicals that do their job. I wouldn't worry too much about fuel dilution as long as one is nudging viscosity upward a bit, using one of the thick liquids I listed above.
As for the "odds of the average Honda owner" putting in a thick liquid to prop viscosity up, according to wear results we've seen on UOAs, Fe ppms, these engines still basically do OK with thin oil if they don't top off. ... Topping up with occasional thick liquids is just more insurance I think.
And, when you read what bitog poster MolaKule revealed on old posts about Schaeffer Moly EP #132 oil treatment, its ester, antimony EP/AW, and a little moly, with dispersants to fight fuel gremlins, preferable over the STP cheaper stuff.
|
|
|
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution
[Re: Eddie]
#4895763
10/13/18 07:56 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,475
Artem
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,475 |
I think Eddie said it best, below. No way will I buy a vehicle that is 100% a nightmare to maintain past the warranty period and all this activity costs me a kidney or two to fund. <— Forget that nonsense. I’ll let your average Joe play the test rat game with these manufacturers and their new technology that nobody asked for. The days of producing a simple, clean running durable engine was done in the 90s. Honda’s D and B series engines come to mind. I hesitated buying my 2014 Mazda 3 due to the Di fuel delivery but since Mazda’s Skyactiv engine design showed no problems since it was introduced in 2012, I felt confident enough to take my chances on it with the 2014 model. It’s been an excellent car thus far @ 72,000 miles. Just oil changes. I wouldn't purchase a "Hobby" vehicle where I need to be concerned about extra oil changes, special valve cleaning regiments and the like. I would wait until HONDA gets their act together. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy my CX5 DI engine that has shown no fuel dilution over a few tenths over three UOAs. Ed
2014 Mazda 3 Hatch 2.0L & 6spd - Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic @ $0.75 a quart. (thanks Advance Auto Parts for the awesome deal)
|
|
|
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution
[Re: Artem]
#4896104
10/14/18 08:13 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,152
webfors
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,152 |
I think Eddie said it best, below. No way will I buy a vehicle that is 100% a nightmare to maintain past the warranty period and all this activity costs me a kidney or two to fund. <— Forget that nonsense. I’ll let your average Joe play the test rat game with these manufacturers and their new technology that nobody asked for. The days of producing a simple, clean running durable engine was done in the 90s. Honda’s D and B series engines come to mind. I hesitated buying my 2014 Mazda 3 due to the Di fuel delivery but since Mazda’s Skyactiv engine design showed no problems since it was introduced in 2012, I felt confident enough to take my chances on it with the 2014 model. It’s been an excellent car thus far @ 72,000 miles. Just oil changes. I wouldn't purchase a "Hobby" vehicle where I need to be concerned about extra oil changes, special valve cleaning regiments and the like. I would wait until HONDA gets their act together. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy my CX5 DI engine that has shown no fuel dilution over a few tenths over three UOAs. Ed Fuel dilution is only one variable. Mazda is not immune to intake valve deposits. All of us can ignore the issues and pretend they aren't there, and I'm sure we'll all get 100k+ miles of relatively trouble-free service from our engines.
17 Cadillac ATS 2.0T, Edge D1G2 5w30, Champion COS10590 17 Dodge GC, VWB 5w30, Mopar MO-349 18 DL1000XT, Valvoline Dino 20w50, Suzuki OEM OF Small engines; RT5 10w30
|
|
|
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution
[Re: webfors]
#4896118
10/14/18 08:28 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,475
Artem
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,475 |
Hey, if after 100k miles of use, these engines now require an intake manifold removal and walnut blasting the intake valves in order to get another 100k of use, and this is now consisted “normal” and the direction the auto industry is going, then this should be stated loudly and proudly in the service manual, so potential buyers can anticipate the cost and down time into the overall cost of ownership.
If this new tech give an extra 1mpg gain but costs $1,500 in maintenance some 60,000 miles later, how does that make ANY sense at all? I’d settle for 0.5mpg gain and save the walnuts for something else. Lol
2014 Mazda 3 Hatch 2.0L & 6spd - Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic @ $0.75 a quart. (thanks Advance Auto Parts for the awesome deal)
|
|
|
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution
[Re: Artem]
#4896204
10/14/18 10:57 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,152
webfors
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,152 |
Hey, if after 100k miles of use, these engines now require an intake manifold removal and walnut blasting the intake valves in order to get another 100k of use, and this is now consisted “normal” and the direction the auto industry is going, then this should be stated loudly and proudly in the service manual, so potential buyers can anticipate the cost and down time into the overall cost of ownership. Agreed. If this new tech give an extra 1mpg gain but costs $1,500 in maintenance some 60,000 miles later, how does that make ANY sense at all? I’d settle for 0.5mpg gain and save the walnuts for something else. Lol
Or run a $10 bottle of CRC Intake Valve cleaner every 10k. I was anti-DI until I drove a few... more power/torque/responsiveness and more mpg. It's worth a little extra maintenance IMO. You're going to run out of options to avoid DI unless you keep buying progressively older cars 
17 Cadillac ATS 2.0T, Edge D1G2 5w30, Champion COS10590 17 Dodge GC, VWB 5w30, Mopar MO-349 18 DL1000XT, Valvoline Dino 20w50, Suzuki OEM OF Small engines; RT5 10w30
|
|
|
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution
[Re: Highkm]
#4896603
10/14/18 08:17 PM
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,870
Smokescreen
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,870 |
...^^ and that is my plan until more cars come out that have addressed the problem...after which I may then obtain one.
Last edited by Smokescreen; 10/14/18 08:17 PM.
13 Civic Si 2.4L-105Kkms(66Kmi)-QSUD,Wix 05 LeSabre 3.8L-294Kkms(184Kmi)-QSUD,Wix 03 Sierra 2500 6.0L-209Kkms(130Kmi)-QSUD,Wix
All with mpg > EPA
|
|
|
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution
[Re: Highkm]
#4896749
10/15/18 05:34 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,623
Eddie
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,623 |
I would add that many engines don't have fuel dilution issues to the extent that HONDA does. Back to the drawing board HONDA. Ed
2014 CX5 Touring 2.5L :-)
|
|
|
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution
[Re: Highkm]
#4896874
10/15/18 08:37 AM
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,701
Schmoe
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,701 |
I disagree. The only news you read on social media is the bad news. You know how many 100' of thousands of folks with the CRV are totally happy with it???
01 Supercrew Lariat 4X4 06 Accord EX-L V6 2018 CRV EX-L 2017 Accord Coupe V6 EX-L 6AT
|
|
|
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution
[Re: Schmoe]
#4896882
10/15/18 08:51 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,901
Danh
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,901 |
I disagree. The only news you read on social media is the bad news. You know how many 100' of thousands of folks with the CRV are totally happy with it??? Maybe, but considering most owners never open hoods or check their oil these days, fuel dilution typically doesn’t result in a car that doesn’t work and 98% of owners have no idea what fuel dilution is I’m not sure that’s a good gauge either. Here’s what you can do: look through the UOAs for Honda 1.5Ts that are posted here. See how many you can find with fuel dilution less than 5% if measured by gas chromotography (e.g. Oil Analyzers) or have viscosity trashed (Blackstone). I’ll save you the trouble and provide the answer: 1. Fuel dilution is common with DI/TGDI engines but Honda seems to be about the worst offender. Mazda and Ford had early issues but made changes pretty quickly. Honda hasn’t.
|
|
|
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution
[Re: Highkm]
#4916099
11/05/18 10:03 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,001
kr_bitog
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,001 |
I think Honda has admitted the fuel dilution mostly happen during winter time where the engine does not heat up the oil pan enough to evaporate all the fuel diluted in the oil. So if you are not short tripper then the problem should not be severe
|
|
|
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution
[Re: Highkm]
#4936713
11/27/18 11:41 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 6
dbier
|
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 6 |
Wow! I just bought a 2018 CRV after reading about the great safety ratings - now I just stumbled across this issue.
My son noticed right away this past weekend (28 degrees out) that it took a very long for the CRV temp gauge to rise - and it would drop while sitting at a stoplight. I've read that Honda is going to do some recall tweaking to try to get the engines to warm up faster and higher (starting to roll out in 5 states this December) - but in the meanwhile I plan to change my oil every 3,000 miles in winter and 5,000 miles in summer. Also, I noticed that if I use S (SPORT) instead of D (DRIVE) the increased revs warms the engine up much faster - so I plan to use S at least in during initial winter warm-ups.
Hopefully these precautions will help (let me know your thoughts) - but it really sucks that I have to think about this on a car bought 4 days ago!
|
|
|
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution
[Re: parshisa]
#4937871
11/28/18 02:15 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,690
john_pifer
|
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,690 |
How did the level look like on the dipstick? How much have you drained? I bet it was over 4qts. Just run premium gasoline and real synthetic oil and fuel dilution will be almost gone. What's your point in saying to use premium? Are you implying that there will be less pinging/knocking on premium, and, therefore, the ECU won't run the mixture as rich, resulting in less fuel contamination?
07 Tacoma V6 - M1 EP 5W-30, Fram Ultra, 10K OCIs, 223K 18 Civic HB 1.5T 6MT (Fiancee's) - Castrol Edge 0W-20, OEM filter 07 Yamaha R1 - Rotella T6 5W-40, Bosch 3300 07 Yamaha YZ-250, Klotz, Rotella
|
|
|
|