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Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution [Re: Highkm] #4894602
10/12/18 10:35 AM
10/12/18 10:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,843
Florida, Cape Coral
Eddie Offline
Eddie  Offline
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,843
Florida, Cape Coral
I wouldn't purchase a "Hobby" vehicle where I need to be concerned about extra oil changes, special valve cleaning regiments and the like. I would wait until HONDA gets their act together. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy my CX5 DI engine that has shown no fuel dilution over a few tenths over three UOAs. Ed


CX5 Touring 2.5L :-)
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution [Re: Eddie] #4894972
10/12/18 06:44 PM
10/12/18 06:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,245
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,245
MN
Originally Posted by Eddie
I wouldn't purchase a "Hobby" vehicle where I need to be concerned about extra oil changes, special valve cleaning regiments and the like. I would wait until HONDA gets their act together. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy my CX5 DI engine that has shown no fuel dilution over a few tenths over three UOAs. Ed
Its not that bad. Really all these fuel diluting 1.5T owners need to do is keep the oil near the half-way point, between Add & Full, then in about 4,000 miles into the oil change interval, put in a cup of either STP Oil Treatment (200 cSt KV100) or Schaeffer #132 Moly EP Engine Oil Treatment (238 cSt KV100) thick goop, both very mixable and not harmful, meant to be compatible. Put in another cup at the 8,000 mile point if going the full 10k miles on the oil change. Keeps the visc up where it should be.
Also, this lets you document the use of Honda-spec 0w20 in case they want to get nutty about engine failure warranty claims, if it happens.

If Highkm the OP (with 5.6 cSt KV100) would have done this, he would have ended up with about ~7.5 cSt at the end, enough to keep the Stribeck curve contented.

Last edited by oil_film_movies; 10/12/18 06:48 PM.
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution [Re: oil_film_movies] #4895157
10/12/18 10:19 PM
10/12/18 10:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,807
.
Danh Offline
Danh  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,807
.
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by Eddie
I wouldn't purchase a "Hobby" vehicle where I need to be concerned about extra oil changes, special valve cleaning regiments and the like. I would wait until HONDA gets their act together. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy my CX5 DI engine that has shown no fuel dilution over a few tenths over three UOAs. Ed
Its not that bad. Really all these fuel diluting 1.5T owners need to do is keep the oil near the half-way point, between Add & Full, then in about 4,000 miles into the oil change interval, put in a cup of either STP Oil Treatment (200 cSt KV100) or Schaeffer #132 Moly EP Engine Oil Treatment (238 cSt KV100) thick goop, both very mixable and not harmful, meant to be compatible. Put in another cup at the 8,000 mile point if going the full 10k miles on the oil change. Keeps the visc up where it should be.
Also, this lets you document the use of Honda-spec 0w20 in case they want to get nutty about engine failure warranty claims, if it happens.

If Highkm the OP (with 5.6 cSt KV100) would have done this, he would have ended up with about ~7.5 cSt at the end, enough to keep the Stribeck curve contented.


Even if viscosity were the only measure of lubricant effectiveness (it isn’t: my grandmother’s pea soup had a cSt of probably 20-something), what are the odds of the average Honda owner doing as you suggest?

Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution [Re: Highkm] #4895471
10/13/18 12:50 PM
10/13/18 12:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,245
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,245
MN
Danh, granted there is a possibility all that extra fuel (up to 20:1 we've seen) might create blacker pistons, no doubt. That's probably about it. Oil has dispersants and cleaning chemicals that do their job. I wouldn't worry too much about fuel dilution as long as one is nudging viscosity upward a bit, using one of the thick liquids I listed above.

As for the "odds of the average Honda owner" putting in a thick liquid to prop viscosity up, according to wear results we've seen on UOAs, Fe ppms, these engines still basically do OK with thin oil if they don't top off. ... Topping up with occasional thick liquids is just more insurance I think.

And, when you read what bitog poster MolaKule revealed on old posts about Schaeffer Moly EP #132 oil treatment, its ester, antimony EP/AW, and a little moly, with dispersants to fight fuel gremlins, preferable over the STP cheaper stuff.

Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution [Re: Eddie] #4895763
10/13/18 08:56 PM
10/13/18 08:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,311
Florida
Artem Offline
Artem  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,311
Florida
I think Eddie said it best, below. No way will I buy a vehicle that is 100% a nightmare to maintain past the warranty period and all this activity costs me a kidney or two to fund. <— Forget that nonsense. I’ll let your average Joe play the test rat game with these manufacturers and their new technology that nobody asked for.

The days of producing a simple, clean running durable engine was done in the 90s. Honda’s D and B series engines come to mind.

I hesitated buying my 2014 Mazda 3 due to the Di fuel delivery but since Mazda’s Skyactiv engine design showed no problems since it was introduced in 2012, I felt confident enough to take my chances on it with the 2014 model. It’s been an excellent car thus far @ 72,000 miles. Just oil changes.


Originally Posted by Eddie
I wouldn't purchase a "Hobby" vehicle where I need to be concerned about extra oil changes, special valve cleaning regiments and the like. I would wait until HONDA gets their act together. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy my CX5 DI engine that has shown no fuel dilution over a few tenths over three UOAs. Ed


2014 Mazda 3 Hatch 2.0L & 6spd - Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic @ $0.75 a quart. (thanks Advance Auto Parts for the awesome deal)
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution [Re: Artem] #4896104
10/14/18 09:13 AM
10/14/18 09:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,034
Great White North.. eh
webfors Offline
webfors  Offline
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,034
Great White North.. eh
Originally Posted by Artem
I think Eddie said it best, below. No way will I buy a vehicle that is 100% a nightmare to maintain past the warranty period and all this activity costs me a kidney or two to fund. <— Forget that nonsense. I’ll let your average Joe play the test rat game with these manufacturers and their new technology that nobody asked for.

The days of producing a simple, clean running durable engine was done in the 90s. Honda’s D and B series engines come to mind.

I hesitated buying my 2014 Mazda 3 due to the Di fuel delivery but since Mazda’s Skyactiv engine design showed no problems since it was introduced in 2012, I felt confident enough to take my chances on it with the 2014 model. It’s been an excellent car thus far @ 72,000 miles. Just oil changes.


Originally Posted by Eddie
I wouldn't purchase a "Hobby" vehicle where I need to be concerned about extra oil changes, special valve cleaning regiments and the like. I would wait until HONDA gets their act together. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy my CX5 DI engine that has shown no fuel dilution over a few tenths over three UOAs. Ed



Fuel dilution is only one variable. Mazda is not immune to intake valve deposits. All of us can ignore the issues and pretend they aren't there, and I'm sure we'll all get 100k+ miles of relatively trouble-free service from our engines.


17 Cadillac ATS 2.0T, Edge D1G2 5w30, XG10575
17 Dodge GC, VWB 5w20, Fram DL11665
15 DL650, Rotella T6 5w40, KN-138
Small engines; RT5 10w30
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution [Re: webfors] #4896118
10/14/18 09:28 AM
10/14/18 09:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,311
Florida
Artem Offline
Artem  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,311
Florida
Hey, if after 100k miles of use, these engines now require an intake manifold removal and walnut blasting the intake valves in order to get another 100k of use, and this is now consisted “normal” and the direction the auto industry is going, then this should be stated loudly and proudly in the service manual, so potential buyers can anticipate the cost and down time into the overall cost of ownership.

If this new tech give an extra 1mpg gain but costs $1,500 in maintenance some 60,000 miles later, how does that make ANY sense at all? I’d settle for 0.5mpg gain and save the walnuts for something else. Lol


2014 Mazda 3 Hatch 2.0L & 6spd - Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic @ $0.75 a quart. (thanks Advance Auto Parts for the awesome deal)
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution [Re: Artem] #4896204
10/14/18 11:57 AM
10/14/18 11:57 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,034
Great White North.. eh
webfors Offline
webfors  Offline
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,034
Great White North.. eh
Originally Posted by Artem
Hey, if after 100k miles of use, these engines now require an intake manifold removal and walnut blasting the intake valves in order to get another 100k of use, and this is now consisted “normal” and the direction the auto industry is going, then this should be stated loudly and proudly in the service manual, so potential buyers can anticipate the cost and down time into the overall cost of ownership.

Agreed.
Originally Posted by Artem

If this new tech give an extra 1mpg gain but costs $1,500 in maintenance some 60,000 miles later, how does that make ANY sense at all? I’d settle for 0.5mpg gain and save the walnuts for something else. Lol

Or run a $10 bottle of CRC Intake Valve cleaner every 10k. I was anti-DI until I drove a few... more power/torque/responsiveness and more mpg. It's worth a little extra maintenance IMO. You're going to run out of options to avoid DI unless you keep buying progressively older cars grin


17 Cadillac ATS 2.0T, Edge D1G2 5w30, XG10575
17 Dodge GC, VWB 5w20, Fram DL11665
15 DL650, Rotella T6 5w40, KN-138
Small engines; RT5 10w30
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution [Re: Highkm] #4896603
10/14/18 09:17 PM
10/14/18 09:17 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,459
Alberta, Canada
Smokescreen Offline
Smokescreen  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,459
Alberta, Canada
...^^ and that is my plan until more cars come out that have addressed the problem...after which I may then obtain one.

Last edited by Smokescreen; 10/14/18 09:17 PM.

13 Civic Si 2.4L- 69Kkms(43Kmi)-PP,Wix
09 Corolla 1.8L-380Kkms(237Kmi)-PP,Denso
05 LeSabre 3.8L-210Kkms(134Kmi)-PP,Wix
03 Sierra 2500 6.0L-204Kkms(127Kmi)-PP,Wix

All with mpg > EPA
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution [Re: Highkm] #4896749
10/15/18 06:34 AM
10/15/18 06:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,843
Florida, Cape Coral
Eddie Offline
Eddie  Offline
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,843
Florida, Cape Coral
I would add that many engines don't have fuel dilution issues to the extent that HONDA does. Back to the drawing board HONDA. Ed


CX5 Touring 2.5L :-)
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution [Re: Highkm] #4896874
10/15/18 09:37 AM
10/15/18 09:37 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,372
Oklahoma
Schmoe Offline
Schmoe  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,372
Oklahoma
I disagree. The only news you read on social media is the bad news. You know how many 100' of thousands of folks with the CRV are totally happy with it???


01 Supercrew Lariat 4X4
06 Accord EX-L V6
14 CRV EX-L (RIP) 2018 CRV EX-L
Re: 1.5L Honda turbo oil dilution [Re: Schmoe] #4896882
10/15/18 09:51 AM
10/15/18 09:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,807
.
Danh Offline
Danh  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,807
.
Originally Posted by Schmoe
I disagree. The only news you read on social media is the bad news. You know how many 100' of thousands of folks with the CRV are totally happy with it???


Maybe, but considering most owners never open hoods or check their oil these days, fuel dilution typically doesn’t result in a car that doesn’t work and 98% of owners have no idea what fuel dilution is I’m not sure that’s a good gauge either.

Here’s what you can do: look through the UOAs for Honda 1.5Ts that are posted here. See how many you can find with fuel dilution less than 5% if measured by gas chromotography (e.g. Oil Analyzers) or have viscosity trashed (Blackstone). I’ll save you the trouble and provide the answer: 1.

Fuel dilution is common with DI/TGDI engines but Honda seems to be about the worst offender. Mazda and Ford had early issues but made changes pretty quickly. Honda hasn’t.

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