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SN/CK-4 in 6 Different Gasoline Applications #4887903
10/05/18 05:37 AM
10/05/18 05:37 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,140
Kuwait
Falcon_LS Offline OP
Falcon_LS  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,140
Kuwait
I am looking to scale down on the different oils I buy and stick to one oil for all my applications, perhaps excluding the Jaguar which only gets one oil change a year, if that. As far as drain intervals go, on all non-GM vehicles I am looking at 5,000 km/3000 mi. GM vehicles will follow the OLM with a simple drain/refill at the 50% mark (usually ~7,500 km/4,690 mi). Given local operating conditions:

  • High sulfur gasoline (Euro II with 500 ppm sulfur) in non-emissions equipped vehicles. Vehicles with emissions use Euro V with 10 ppm sulfur
  • Extreme heat up to 130°F
  • 80% stop and go driving in heavy traffic with excessive idling and AC
  • Super fine dust/sand particles in the air


I want to run an HDEO and narrowed my choice to Petro-Canada Duron SHP 15W-40. With similar characteristics to Duron HP (mineral based), Duron SHP is a synthetic blend:

Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C: 114 cSt
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C: 15.4 cST
Viscosity Index: 142
HTHS: 4.1 cP @ 150°C
Pour Point °C/°F: -36/-33
Flash Point °C/°F: 226/439
Sulfated Ash: 1.0% wt
TBN: 9.8 mg KOH/g

ACEA: E9 and E7 (meets requirements)
API: CK-4 and SN
Caterpillar: ECF-03 and T0-2
Cummins: CES 20086
Detroit Diesel: DFS93K222
Deutz: DQC III-10 LA
Ford: WSS-M2C171-F1
General Motors: 9985930
JASO: MA2
Mack: EOS-4.5
MAN: 3575 and 3275-1
Mercedes-Benz: 228.31
MTU: Type 2.1
Renault: RLD-4
Volvo: VDS-4.5

This article about the mineral based version was an interesting read:

Quote
The results of the trial showed that Duron HP 15W-40, a conventional mineral oil-based diesel engine oil, performed like a synthetic and resulted in extended drain intervals of up to 50% from 500 hours to 750 hours, with one unit lasting up to 1,100 hours.


The Explorer (Cologne SOHC 4.0 V6), Pajero (6G72 SOHC V6) and Grand Marquis (modified 4.6L with Stage III cams) I am not worried about - all of them are equipped with a factory emissions delete required for Middle East exports at the time to run on leaded gasoline. The Expedition (4.6L), Envoy (4.2L) and SRX (3.6L) are the ones with emissions with the following requirements in the manual:

Expedition: 10W-30 meeting API SL
Envoy: Temperature/viscosity chart ranging from 0W-30 to 20W-50 meeting ACEA A3-02
SRX: Temperature/viscosity chart ranging from 0W-30 to 20W-50 meeting ACEA A3-04

If memory serves me right, API SL had a sulfated ash limit of 1.5% and ACEA A3 is >0.9 and <1.5.

I don't have an issue with oil burning in any vehicle, and given the API SN dual rating, I do not think it will pose a problem. Any input would be appreciated.


99 Explorer: H17W02/GC 0W40
00 Pajero: XG9688/MC 15W40
01 Grand Marquis: XG2/XCess 5W40
03 Expedition SSV: XG2/XCess 5W40
05 Envoy: XG9837/5W30 ESP
06 XJ8L: C2C41611/5W30 ESP
07 SRX: XG8765/5W30 ESP
Re: SN/CK-4 in 6 Different Gasoline Applications [Re: Falcon_LS] #4887952
10/05/18 07:50 AM
10/05/18 07:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,346
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,346
Malaysia
Pick any xW40 with CK4/SN or A3B4 to cover all 6 engines for 10,000 km OCI, mineral or otherwise.

Re: SN/CK-4 in 6 Different Gasoline Applications [Re: Falcon_LS] #4887987
10/05/18 08:28 AM
10/05/18 08:28 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,618
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Offline
SubieRubyRoo  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,618
The land of USA-made Subies!
I don't know if it's available in Kuwait, but if it is check out Delo XLE 10W-30 as well. It's a pretty good oil meeting nearly everything on your wish list.

Re: SN/CK-4 in 6 Different Gasoline Applications [Re: Falcon_LS] #4888004
10/05/18 08:42 AM
10/05/18 08:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,525
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Offline
Snagglefoot  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,525
SE British Columbia, Canada
You’ve just described a “mult-fleet” situation. Since I pay more attention to synthetics, here are a few North American HDEO’s as well as a couple Europeans suitable for Diesel. This is my full synthetic multi- fleet list. Others feel free to correct me if I make a mistake. This is all from recollection.

These should be SN and either CK-4 or at least CJ-4.

Mobil Turbo Diesel 5w40
Mobil Delvac 1 5w40 (shows up as SN on the website)
Shell Rotella T6 0w40


Here are some AECA A3B4’s

Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w40
Castrol Edge 0w40
Mobil 1 Euro 0w40


I wouldn’t worry about the 0w or 5w , even in Kuwait.


Last edited by Snagglefoot; 10/05/18 09:03 AM.

If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: SN/CK-4 in 6 Different Gasoline Applications [Re: Falcon_LS] #4888067
10/05/18 09:37 AM
10/05/18 09:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,278
MN
oil_film_movies Online content
oil_film_movies  Online Content
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,278
MN
Keep using the Fram Ultra oil filters, its got to help get out the extra silica particles (sand bits) in the oil better than anything else. Good choice there.
I'd use any 0w40 that is cheapest to find there in Kuwait. In that weight, they are all quite good and will work very well in all those vehicles.
Then put in half a bottle of LiquiMoly Motor Oil Saver (seal conditioners) in any vehicle that has over 120,000 KM to keep them from leaking in the future.

Last edited by oil_film_movies; 10/05/18 09:37 AM.
Re: SN/CK-4 in 6 Different Gasoline Applications [Re: oil_film_movies] #4888368
10/05/18 02:57 PM
10/05/18 02:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,140
Kuwait
Falcon_LS Offline OP
Falcon_LS  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,140
Kuwait
Thank you for the input.

Had a sit down with one of the local Petro-Canada distributor's technical advisors I met a couple of years ago. Met this gentleman when I was no longer able to buy Petro-Canada supplied Dexron-VI with a GM label (ACDelco 10-9030 (1 gallon) and 10-9029 (1 quart) respectively), which happened to be factory fill at the time.

Long story short, I settled on Duron UHP 5W-40 for now:

Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C: 95.1 cSt
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C: 14.3 cST
Viscosity Index: 169
HTHS: 3.8 cP @ 150°C
Pour Point °C/°F: -45/-49
Flash Point °C/°F: 235/450
Sulfated Ash: 1.0% wt
TBN: 11 mg KOH/g

API: CK-4 and SN
Caterpillar: ECF-03 and T0-2
Cummins: CES 20086
Detroit Diesel: DFS93K222
Ford: WSS-M2C171-F1
Mack: EOS-4.5
Renault: RLD-4
Volvo: VDS-4.5

Will still use the OLM on the GM vehicles, with a drain/refill without filter replacement at the 50% mark, and up the intervals to 7,500 km (~4,690 mi) on the rest.

When it becomes available locally, I will probably switch over to Duron UHP E6 5W-30 across the board, including the Jaguar:

Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C: 69.4 cSt
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C: 11.8 cST
Viscosity Index: 167
HTHS: 3.5 cP @ 150°C
Pour Point °C/°F: -45/-49
Flash Point °C/°F: 217/423
Sulfated Ash: < 1.0% wt
TBN: 13 mg KOH/g

ACEA: E4, E6, E7 and E9
API: CK-4 and SN
Caterpillar: ECF-03
Cummins: CES 20081
Detroit Diesel: DFS93K218
Deutz: DQC IV-10 LA
Mack: EO-O PP '07
MAN: 3271-1, 3477, 3677 and 3691
Mercedes-Benz: 228.51
MTU: Type 3.1
Renault: RLD-3
Scania: LDF-4
Volvo: VDS-4.5

Originally Posted by zeng
Pick any xW40 with CK4/SN or A3B4 to cover all 6 engines for 10,000 km OCI, mineral or otherwise.


Given the amount of dust that goes past the air filter, which you see settling on the internals of the air box cover and intake tube, that to me is a pretty long interval. The dust does find its way into the oil, and although I have no scientific evidence, I am confident it probably just goes through the oil filter.

Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
I don't know if it's available in Kuwait, but if it is check out Delo XLE 10W-30 as well. It's a pretty good oil meeting nearly everything on your wish list.


Chevron, for some reason, do not sell their XLE line here. Their products are sold under the Caltex brand, and include Delo 400 Multigrade 15W-40 (CI-4 Plus/SL) and Delo Gold Multigrade 15W-40 (CI-4/SL). Definitely an option, but they often cater to bigger companies who buy a few barrels at a time vs. someone like me. smile

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
You’ve just described a “mult-fleet” situation. Since I pay more attention to synthetics, here are a few North American HDEO’s as well as a couple Europeans suitable for Diesel. This is my full synthetic multi- fleet list. Others feel free to correct me if I make a mistake. This is all from recollection.

These should be SN and either CK-4 or at least CJ-4.

Mobil Turbo Diesel 5w40
Mobil Delvac 1 5w40 (shows up as SN on the website)
Shell Rotella T6 0w40


Here are some AECA A3B4’s

Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w40
Castrol Edge 0w40
Mobil 1 Euro 0w40


I wouldn’t worry about the 0w or 5w , even in Kuwait.



With the exception of Delvac 1 5W-40, which the distributor no longer stocks anymore, the rest are unavailable. Shell switched to Rimula some time ago, and like Chevron/Caltex, are more interested in bigger companies than your Average Joe. HDEO in smaller quantities, such as for passenger cars, are pretty difficult to come by here and pretty much the only distributor willing to play ball was Petro-Canada.

As far as A3/B4 goes, Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40 is sold under the Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 label, unless you buy it from the Chrysler dealer. Sometimes it'll have a Mopar label on it. Castrol Edge 0W-40 I used to get through APO/DPO, but the Belgian blend is a different breed than the old German formulation - the engines ran quieter/smoother on that. Mobil 1 0W-40 is available, on the other hand, but I'm looking more towards higher levels of zinc and phosphorus.

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Keep using the Fram Ultra oil filters, its got to help get out the extra silica particles (sand bits) in the oil better than anything else. Good choice there.
I'd use any 0w40 that is cheapest to find there in Kuwait. In that weight, they are all quite good and will work very well in all those vehicles.
Then put in half a bottle of LiquiMoly Motor Oil Saver (seal conditioners) in any vehicle that has over 120,000 KM to keep them from leaking in the future.


The Fram Ultra is definitely a great filter. I'm trying out a Hengst in the Explorer at the moment, which adds an additional half quart capacity. smile


99 Explorer: H17W02/GC 0W40
00 Pajero: XG9688/MC 15W40
01 Grand Marquis: XG2/XCess 5W40
03 Expedition SSV: XG2/XCess 5W40
05 Envoy: XG9837/5W30 ESP
06 XJ8L: C2C41611/5W30 ESP
07 SRX: XG8765/5W30 ESP
Re: SN/CK-4 in 6 Different Gasoline Applications [Re: Falcon_LS] #4889670
10/07/18 12:54 AM
10/07/18 12:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,955
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,955
Kalifornia Kollective
THE biggest wear reduction in an engine is clean air. Do everything you can to seal those air cleaner elements to the bases and hats. A bead of grease top and bottom is a good start. Adding a light oil damped pre-filter (foam) like Baja race trucks is a good add-on. Oil related wear is way down the list from air cleaner leaks ... frown

Any 15W-40 in your temp environment would be fine. But so would Mobil 15W-50. I would only consider oils off the Porsche A40 list as they are tested for protection in air-cooled motors (that all have hot spots) and all are robust. They can all easily go your planned distance smile


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: SN/CK-4 in 6 Different Gasoline Applications [Re: Falcon_LS] #4892262
10/09/18 08:31 PM
10/09/18 08:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,634
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,634
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted by Falcon_LS
I don't have an issue with oil burning in any vehicle, and given the API SN dual rating, I do not think it will pose a problem. Any input would be appreciated.

You'll be perfectly fine, and I also wouldn't hesitate to use an E6 lubricant in any of them, either.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: SN/CK-4 in 6 Different Gasoline Applications [Re: Falcon_LS] #4894374
10/12/18 01:28 AM
10/12/18 01:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,727
BC, Canada
userfriendly Offline
userfriendly  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,727
BC, Canada
Duron 10W40 E6 is listed as having a base number of 13. I would choose 10W40 over 5W40 for a hot climate, CK-4/SM or E6.

www.lubricants.petro-canada.com

Re: SN/CK-4 in 6 Different Gasoline Applications [Re: Falcon_LS] #4895436
10/13/18 11:30 AM
10/13/18 11:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,955
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,955
Kalifornia Kollective
Of course you know you could run straight SAE 30 HD, or even SAE 40 HD and be all oil all the time. Your environment is almost ideal for a straight grade oil smile


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

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