50 gallons? 20 degree temperature swing? 75% humidity? Where does that go on? A small boat club in Vermont?
Try 225 gallons, and a boat that has an internal temperature of almost 100 degrees in the day, and in the 60's at night, with humidity in the high 90's.
Run some
accurate calculations on that and see how long it takes to get a gallon of water. Keep in mind that it takes less than a quart to overwhelm a water separator on your typical inboard engine to render it completely unable to operate.
Water from somewhere else? If we disconnect the 3/8" fuel hose and hook it to a manifold with the 3/4" vent line, and are able to draw a stable vacuum of 5 inches, as well as a stable pressure of 5 psi, how in the world do you figure the water came from somewhere else? Unless the engine is creating water and shooting it into the fuel tank through its feed line, it is coming in through the vent. Fuel tank vents are universally shielded from rain watsubstitutit through downward facing lines to vent the tank, so it's not rain, wake, or splash coming in.
Here's what we didn't even see in the last few pages:
*Any argument that ethanol fuel doesn't corrode the living daylights out of carburetors and older fuel systems.
Nothing that was said changes the fact that ethanol is still a
Tailpipe Scam. It looks good only if you measure the impact at the tailpipe. Once you consider the impact of the creation of the fuel, it is plain to see that creating ethanol fuel requires almost as much use of diesel fuel. Borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. May as well cut out the middle man, and just burn diesel fuel, because the legacy of ethanol carries all of the legacy of fossil fuel and
in addition the impact of direct ethanol fuel creation.
Scam. And us taxpayers are the ones paying to turn 1 gallon of diesel fuel into 1.1 gallons of ethanol. They may as well call these people government alchemists.
[/quo]Go run your own numbers. I already posted a study that says I was wrong and it was a very well done study by the renewable fuels association.
As far as ethanol being corosive I have several thousand gallons of it in uncoated steel pipe for the last 20 years and when you open it up it looks oddly brand new. Paint still intact on blinds except where it was removed for sealing surfaces. Grind marks on the steel looks like they were just done.
DoubleWasp said:
Aside from the numerous studies, the better examination is one of logic: Why doesn't the ethanol production system run off of ethanol? Ethanol farm equipment, ethanol trucks, the whole thing? We both know the answer to that question. It's not a mystery that every truck leaving production full of ethanol would be directed straight to ethanol manufacture, and none of it would be available for consumer sale.
Ethanol makes it to market on the back of fossil fuel production, and self-inflated corn prices through government's external manipulation. Take both out of the picture, and ethanol goes bankrupt at sunrise.
Dew doesn't collect in fuel tanks of pure gasoline fast enough to make a difference on a frequently used boat. Boats that are not used frequently can simply be filled, and there is no space for dew to work its magic. We did a Chaparral last year that we received from a marina that had been on the dry for more than 3 years with a nearly full tank of marine gasoline. Once we replaced both engines (both dead of bad exhausts), know what happened when we primed the system and turned the keys? Started right up like lightning. The clear bowls of the water separators had maybe 1/16 of an inch of water in the bottom of them after running the boat for 2 hours as the engines broke in.
This is exactly why you will never see an airplane get filled up with an ethanol mixed fuel, either. Easy enough to say "stuff happens" and go into denial when someone breaks down and has to call a tow. Much more difficult when somebody falls out of the sky and dies.[/quot
Why doesn't diesel fuel production run on diesel fuel? Why is gasoline transported by diesel fuel? Why is propane transported by diesel fuel? Why aren't nuclear bombs transported by nuclear reactors? Why why why why?
Youre actually going to deny the established scientific fact that ethanol fuel is corrosive? Wow.
The fossil fuel network runs on a lot of fossil fuel. Trucks, ships, locomotives. Its not a huge Ponzi scheme, so it gets to work that way.
To answer your other questions: Propane is generally not transported by propane, because engine fuel is not its primary market or even its intended primary market.
Nuclear bombs are not transported by nuclear reactors because of some extremely valid safety concerns. There is about zero demand in the market for the use of uranium as engine fuel.
Ethanol fuel is an engine fuel. The purpose of it is to substitute fossil engine fuel to reduce environmental impact. It runs on the very fuel it is intended to substitute, increasing the impact, in order to decrease it. The situation it seeks to avoid is the one it is creating. That's before we get to the banned farming practices that have re-emerged to support it, the other massive land abuses, the water abuses, and the effect of nitrogen and pesticide toxification.
That's as dumb as building a paper recycling factory that runs off of a wood burning furnace.
C. Montgomery Burns couldn't have come up with this scheme, but it sounds like he did.
You just say ethanol is corrosive. The problem with that statement is that it isn't corrosive to all metals or at the rates that everyone makes it out to be. Steel being one that it doesn't affect. It doesn't mater what you want to think. There are millions of gallons of ethanol sitting in steel pipes and tanks for a lot of years and they aren't rusting apart.
My point with my silly questions is that every thing is primarily transported by diesel fuel. Ethanol is only meant to replace a portion of gasoline, not all fossil fuels. The only thing that uses gasoline anymore are cars, small trucks and small equipment. The argument that you use diesel fuel in ethanol production is just idiotic as you use diesel fuel to transport everything. No body is comparing ethanol to diesel fuel. Stop with these idiotic statements.
It's corrosive enough to jam the needle in a carburetor and eat out unprepared fuel lines. Thats quite enough right there.
How exactly are you missing this point?
Goal:
Substitute the burning of fossil fuel to reduce emissions to help the environment.
Means:
Burn tons and tons of fossil fuel and destroy the environment to create it.
Result: A fuel mixture that increases pollution. A manufacturing process that increases pollution.
Achievement: Same thing as just leaving the fossil fuel to be burnt in a vehicle, without the stupid roundabout process.
It doesnt matter that everything is transported by diesel fuel because those items are not supposed to be reducing the very thing that the burning of diesel fuel causes.
You keep beating around the bush trying to avoid that ethanol fuel is the ultimate Pyrrhic Victory of science.
Nothing is being replaced in portion or whole. Ssme or worse environmental impact, with a whole lot more government corruption and monkeying around than was there in the first place. Fail.
So explain to me why ethanol doesn't corrode anything in Iowa yet it does in Florida? Does ethanol know geography?
Why do you keep saying that ethanol is supposed to reduce diesel pollution? Why is it so hard for you to figure that out? Why is it ok to use diesel fuel for production and transportation of everything else yet you think ethanol should only be used to produce and transport itself? Corn is going to be produced regardless of its use in ethanol so it's diesel use is a moot point.
I have never once stated that ethanol didn't have its own problems or was efficient or decreases pollution.
Quote
Originally Posted by jhellwig
Out of all the negative aspect and opinions about ethanol no one ever mentions a way to replace it's use for the purpose it is intended for with another product that is better? Why is that?
The name of better product is already known. It's called gasoline. Same result as making and burning ethanol, with none of the extra sanctimonious and corrupt bull.
Here we go again with the reading comprehension. Gasoline is not a replacement for ethanol. What was ethanol intended for before its boom in production and high gas prices made it a viable alternative to gasoline?
