Home theater speakers

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When I was growing up, the typical home theater setup included a pair of loudspeakers (typically with 8-15" woofer, mid-bass and tweeter), and the high-zoot ones had a center channel and rear surround back when Dolby Pro-Logic was en vogue.

Modern surround sound is worlds better 'now days, but is sound quality for actual stereo sound reproduction actually as good? I find myself cranking up my stereo listening to tunes thinking, "wish I had bigger speakers." The problem is they're almost impossible to find, at a decent price at least. Bookshelf speakers and mini-tower speakers are everywhere, most with a 6.5" woofer and tweeter, perhaps multiple 5 or 6.5" woofers. The bass always sound loud but muddy, not like what I remember as a kid with the half-refrigerator size speakers my dad had that would shake the ground you stood on. His were dual-12" (one was a passive radiator) KLH-brand tower speakers. But I can't find a decent priced loudspeaker with a >10" woofer for less than $500 each.

My own setup is a 12" passive-sub with external amp, 6.5" woofer polk mini-towers, good sounding speakers all the way around for home theater use, where you're close. Nice treble, decent bass, but when you want to crank the volume up real loud it is seriously lacking. To hear the sound outside the house clearly while I'm doing yard work for example, there is distortion when you turn the volume up that high. I've tried different receivers, even my best "old" one, an Aiwa AV-X200 (~200w/channel clean power). I can't help but believe I need larger speakers.

What would you guys suggest? I want to wow myself when I crank the volume up (headroom is nice, even though I won't listen at the volume) and I just can't do it with my present setup. My current receiver is a Denon AVR-S540BT, but again I've used receivers with more power and still been disappointed. Is small speakers & large subwoofer a better setup vs. huge tower speakers (like in the old days) with no external subwoofer? Curious what you guys think.
 
Modern "theatre surround sound" crap to me is a joke. Tinny low powered mass fi amplifiers and bookshelf sized speakers. Nothing beats old school high powered vacuum tube amplifiers and massive horn loaded speakers.
 
I listen to plenty of loud music and my Paradigm Monitor 11 speakers deliver incredible clarity and volume as well as very accurate sound reproduction. This is fortified by a large 12" sub with an external amp, likely somewhat similar to yours. However, the speakers themselves produce excellent bass.

Of course you also need sufficient power to drive them.

My "home theatre" is really just a 3.1 setup, but it works well enough. The room isn't well suited for rear speakers so I've never bothered installing any. The majority of my listening is music (stereo), so that's what it is setup for.
 
You need bigger and more expensive speakers, that's about all there is to it. A subwoofer in a home theater setting will only be asked to play notes below about 60hz, in a stereo setup that might be a bit higher but you want towers that can give you clean and accurate output down to ~40hz. You also need speakers that are relatively efficient if you're running them off a receiver and not a dedicated amplifier.

I have a complete Paradigm Studio series setup, and it pretty much checks all those boxes:

Paradigm Studio 60 v.2's for L & R, Paradigm Studio CC v.2 center channel, and Paradigm Studio ADP v.2 dipole surround speaker. There's 17 total drivers between the 5 speakers, and they CRANK powered by my Pioneer Elite VSX45 receiver. In direct stereo mode, the Studio 60's will blow your mind playing music. I can turn up Hotel California to the point where it hurts and there's no distortion.

I would search Craigslist for speakers that were VERY expensive 10-15 years ago, and pick them up cheap. Don't bother shopping new, you won't find what you're looking for. My setup would have cost just shy of $4k when new in 2003-ish, I paid $750 for the 5 speaker set with stands for the surrounds, less than 1/4 what they were new. I'll never sell them, but if I did I have no doubt I could double my money on them.
 
It depends to on the original source of the sound also. Streaming audio is lower quality than an mp3 of the same song on the same device. The devices them selves can be lacking in producing a full audio signal that sounds good through a good system.

I had a 2011 Silverado that didn't have the bose system just stock but had xm and could do mp3 from a cd or memory stick. The xm was lower quality sound than a radio station and that was lower than a cd or mp3. Most of the streaming applications now are lower quality than xm most of the time. The bass is muddy or non existent and the rest is just not as rich.
 
If you are trying to feel your music in the yard I would suggest gettting a really nice pair of headphones. There are some serious physics you trying to overcome, eg, it takes 4x the power to make sound travel twice the distance. I'm much younger but from everything I've read, your dads speakers were built during a golden age of warm sound and ridiculously overbuilt speakers and are very sought after now.

Edit: 14accent approach is great as well!
 
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Originally Posted by NYSteve
If you are trying to feel your music in the yard I would suggest gettting a really nice pair of headphones. There are some serious physics you trying to overcome, eg, it takes 4x the power to make sound travel twice the distance. I'm much younger but from everything I've read, your dads speakers were built during a golden age of warm sound and ridiculously overbuilt speakers and are very sought after now.

Edit: 14accent approach is great as well!


Yeah, KLH's were quite good. I have a set of B&W 802's on my upstairs system which have beautiful sound, but they are not as loud as the Paradigms, nor is their bass reproduction as pronounced.
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by NYSteve
If you are trying to feel your music in the yard I would suggest gettting a really nice pair of headphones. There are some serious physics you trying to overcome, eg, it takes 4x the power to make sound travel twice the distance. I'm much younger but from everything I've read, your dads speakers were built during a golden age of warm sound and ridiculously overbuilt speakers and are very sought after now.

Edit: 14accent approach is great as well!


Yeah, KLH's were quite good. I have a set of B&W 802's on my upstairs system which have beautiful sound, but they are not as loud as the Paradigms, nor is their bass reproduction as pronounced.


Nice having a fellow Paradigm owner here! I absolutely love mine, the Studio's have the optional Rosenut solid wood veneer. Stunning to look at.

Those B&W 802's are nothing shabby, either!
 
In general, there is a direct relationship between woofer size and low frequency reproduction. Today, we can do all sorts of tricks to get good low volume, low end response from small speakers, including using low freq equalization. But turn up the SPL and it takes both power (watts) and cone area (speaker size) to reproduce the lowest frequencies properly. (short of some tuned enclosures like the above mentioned horns, or a labyrinth)

I work in aviation and have done a number of sound level surveys on corporate jets. I used the very expensive equipment to measure frequency response of my home audio stuff. As expected, low freq roll off was pronounced, even with 2ea 6.5 inch woofers in each small tower and dual (cheap) 10 inch powered subs. There just was not enough cone area to fill my room with low bass. Even with equalization.

I replaced my stuff with bigger stuff. Polk RTI-a9's and 12 inch Sunfire sealed subs.

Cerwin Vega speakers remain "old school cool" and retain some of that sound we know from the past.

[Linked Image]
 
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Originally Posted by 14Accent
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by NYSteve
If you are trying to feel your music in the yard I would suggest gettting a really nice pair of headphones. There are some serious physics you trying to overcome, eg, it takes 4x the power to make sound travel twice the distance. I'm much younger but from everything I've read, your dads speakers were built during a golden age of warm sound and ridiculously overbuilt speakers and are very sought after now.

Edit: 14accent approach is great as well!


Yeah, KLH's were quite good. I have a set of B&W 802's on my upstairs system which have beautiful sound, but they are not as loud as the Paradigms, nor is their bass reproduction as pronounced.


Nice having a fellow Paradigm owner here! I absolutely love mine, the Studio's have the optional Rosenut solid wood veneer. Stunning to look at.

Those B&W 802's are nothing shabby, either!


cheers3.gif


I had a pair of Cerwin-Vega speakers before the Paradigms, the Paradigms do everything better. Being the 11's, these have triple woofers and dual rear-facing ports. The B&W's are probably more musically accurate, being a true studio monitor, but a modern set of 802's is north of 20 grand
crazy2.gif
and they won't do the volume level that the Paradigms do, and for heavy music, the Paradigms sound amazing. Mine are just black, to match the rest of my components.

I was originally driving them bi-amped with my Denon receiver, but am now powering them via a Bryston 4B power amp, which has significantly more "oomf" and headroom.
 
Originally Posted by Cujet
In general, there is a direct relationship between woofer size and low frequency reproduction. Today, we can do all sorts of tricks to get good low volume, low end response from small speakers, including using low freq equalization. But turn up the SPL and it takes both power (watts) and cone area (speaker size) to reproduce the lowest frequencies properly. (short of some tuned enclosures like the above mentioned horns, or a labyrinth)

I work in aviation and have done a number of sound level surveys on corporate jets. I used the very expensive equipment to measure frequency response of my home audio stuff. As expected, low freq roll off was pronounced, even with 2ea 6.5 inch woofers in each small tower and dual (cheap) 10 inch powered subs. There just was not enough cone area to fill my room with low bass. Even with equalization.

I replaced my stuff with bigger stuff. Polk RTI-a9's and 12 inch Sunfire sealed subs.

Cerwin Vega speakers remain "old school cool" and retain some of that sound we know from the past.

[Linked Image]



I spy a sweet high end stereo system!
laugh.gif


Is that a Phase Linear amp and preamp?
 
I remember going to the Omni Theatre in Ft Worth and they showed us the "stereo room". It was literally banks of Threshold power amps in an air conditioned room with Altec horn loaded speaker enclosures throughout the theatre. It was insane!!
 
Originally Posted by 92saturnsl2
My own setup is a 12" passive-sub with external amp, 6.5" woofer polk mini-towers, good sounding speakers all the way around for home theater use, where you're close. Nice treble, decent bass, but when you want to crank the volume up real loud it is seriously lacking.
Which specific Polk speakers are they? I know some of them are challenging to drive, and some are not very efficient. If you want it to play loud, look for more efficient speakers. In a lower price range, take a look at Klipsch R-28F with sensitivity of 98 dB. Some people are not a fan of Klipsch horn tweeters, but if you want something loud that's easy to drive, that is one option. I think they are about $350 each. For earth shaking bass, you will still want to pair them up with a separate subwoofer. Then again, if you're trying to amplify an entire neighborhood, even that may come up short. Look into stage equipment, maybe?
smile.gif



As far as amps, I don't know how good your current Denon home theater receiver is for basic 2-channel stereo duty, so I can't comment if that is part of the problem. If you're looking to add an amp, check out Emotiva product line. Something like their A-300 amp should work well, but they have even more powerful stuff available.
 
The Cerwin Vega pic above is not my stuff. I have the Polk RTi A9's. Which, have no bass.
frown.gif
And sadly, no punch. They are, at best, acceptable.

Hence the very powerful Sunfire 1000W subs.

These are the speakers I have:

[Linked Image]


I make no claims as to Cerwin Vega's sound quality. Only that they do have a classic floorstanding sound to them.
 
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Do I spy a linear turntable there?

Amazing the resemblance to the cabinet design Bryston uses in their big floor standing Model T speakers. However, they produce bass extremely well
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What are you driving those with Cujet?

Here's my setup (sorry for the mess, we are renovating):

Stereo01.jpg
 
Originally Posted by Cujet
The Cerwin Vega pic above is not my stuff. I have the Polk RTi A9's. Which, have no bass.
frown.gif
And sadly, no punch. They are, at best, acceptable.

Hence the very powerful Sunfire 1000W subs.

These are the speakers I have:

[Linked Image]


I make no claims as to Cerwin Vega's sound quality. Only that they do have a classic floorstanding sound to them.








What kind've power amp is that cujet?
 
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