Oils without vii will shear down too, even straight weight and synthetics.
Advantages of using SAE 30?
- Thread starter exranger06
- Start date
- Status
GC is quite shear stable, not many UOAs I've seen show much viscosity reduction of GC that couldn't be attributed to fuel dilution. They might be out there, but I haven't run across them. I think my BMW thinned GC about 0.5 cSt, I'd have to look. Even just in my car I've sheared the [censored] out of M1 0W40, for instance.
Rotella 15W40 may be more shear stable than the 5w40, you'd have to search for every UOA you could find and see if there's a pattern. Not many people (myself included) bother to spend $20-$30 on UOAs for yard equipment.
Based on the Amsoil ASE product, I bet there are a lot of group IV 10W30s out there that actually have no VIIs but aren't marketed as such. M1 HM 10W30 may still have no VIIs. It seems like M1 "isn't what it used to be" in some of the grades, I'm not sure if the current 10W30 would have no VIIs or not. Anything with "energy conserving" on it these days doesn't give me a warm feeling.
Perhaps you could use the VI (not VII) rating from ASE specs and compare that to other 10W30s. When you find one that is similar or lower it may have no VIIs. That's not a guarantee though.
On whether air cooled engines actually shear oil - that seems to be the indication and the primary reason for consumption. The engine shears it, it thins out, and goes right past the rings. In the process it fouls the rings and the problem gets worse.
Esso XD-3 reference: here
Rotella-T reference: here
Amsoil ASE reference:
here
The VI of ASE (confirmed no VIIs) is around 146 and AFAIK it is group IV (PAO).
You'll see that XD-3 15W40 is 140 while straight weight SAE30 is 108. I believe this is dino, not synthetic base. One could guess that VI=105 may be no VIIs in dino base stock, and ~145 is no VIIs in group IV basestock.
XD-3 0W30, for instance, has a VI of >165. It is group IV and VIIs have likely been used as 165>145.
Rotella-T 15W40 has a VI of ~140 and is dino, so probably has VIIs. I didn't find a product sheet for Rotella-T SB 5W40, but found this . It shows a VI for 10W40 of almost 172. I believe this is group III basestock, but will likely be corrected.
Of course some VIIs are better than others so some oils are more shear-stable than others.
M1 10W30 data sheet is here and it shows a VI of 140. Depending on the basestock this may be good. If group III there may be VIIs. If group IV then it may be VII-free.
M1 10W30 HM data sheet is here . It's VI is 145. It's been said that the HM and EP products are stouter than the traditional products, perhaps the EP products have higher grade basestock and the 10W30 grade still has a VI in the 140s. Of course 10W30 EP may cost more than Amsoil ASE but hey....
Rotella 15W40 may be more shear stable than the 5w40, you'd have to search for every UOA you could find and see if there's a pattern. Not many people (myself included) bother to spend $20-$30 on UOAs for yard equipment.
Based on the Amsoil ASE product, I bet there are a lot of group IV 10W30s out there that actually have no VIIs but aren't marketed as such. M1 HM 10W30 may still have no VIIs. It seems like M1 "isn't what it used to be" in some of the grades, I'm not sure if the current 10W30 would have no VIIs or not. Anything with "energy conserving" on it these days doesn't give me a warm feeling.
Perhaps you could use the VI (not VII) rating from ASE specs and compare that to other 10W30s. When you find one that is similar or lower it may have no VIIs. That's not a guarantee though.
On whether air cooled engines actually shear oil - that seems to be the indication and the primary reason for consumption. The engine shears it, it thins out, and goes right past the rings. In the process it fouls the rings and the problem gets worse.
Esso XD-3 reference: here
Rotella-T reference: here
Amsoil ASE reference:
here
The VI of ASE (confirmed no VIIs) is around 146 and AFAIK it is group IV (PAO).
You'll see that XD-3 15W40 is 140 while straight weight SAE30 is 108. I believe this is dino, not synthetic base. One could guess that VI=105 may be no VIIs in dino base stock, and ~145 is no VIIs in group IV basestock.
XD-3 0W30, for instance, has a VI of >165. It is group IV and VIIs have likely been used as 165>145.
Rotella-T 15W40 has a VI of ~140 and is dino, so probably has VIIs. I didn't find a product sheet for Rotella-T SB 5W40, but found this . It shows a VI for 10W40 of almost 172. I believe this is group III basestock, but will likely be corrected.
Of course some VIIs are better than others so some oils are more shear-stable than others.
M1 10W30 data sheet is here and it shows a VI of 140. Depending on the basestock this may be good. If group III there may be VIIs. If group IV then it may be VII-free.
M1 10W30 HM data sheet is here . It's VI is 145. It's been said that the HM and EP products are stouter than the traditional products, perhaps the EP products have higher grade basestock and the 10W30 grade still has a VI in the 140s. Of course 10W30 EP may cost more than Amsoil ASE but hey....
I was looking at the Kohler 10w30 today while at TSC (price was $3.49/quart) and it is CH-4 rated. I thought this might be interesting to note because now knowing that it is also a HDEO I do feel a little differently about it. This combined with the idea that these manufactures oils might also have some additional additives in it as compared to a PCMO of the same grade and I am starting to think that maybe the Kohler oil is not that bad after all. Granted it is a little spendy but my engines are only 2 quarts per change it is not that much more cost than a PCMO or other HDEO and less than Amsoil ASE.
Honestly, I am considering the use of Kohler 10w30 over RTS or ASE (the other two oils I was considering switching to this season).
I will see if I can dig up a data sheet somewhere.
Honestly, I am considering the use of Kohler 10w30 over RTS or ASE (the other two oils I was considering switching to this season).
I will see if I can dig up a data sheet somewhere.
I have run Delo straight 30 weight in my Command since new. I'm out of the Delo now, and just switched to Mobil 1630, but expect the same results, in other words. no problems.
Maybe this will give a clue on Kohler Oil...
Material Safety Data Sheet
Material Name: Kohler Command Universal Engine Oil SAE 10W30
Manufacturer Information
Warren Oil
2340 Hwy 301 North
Dunn, NC
* * * Section 2 - Composition / Information on Ingredients * * *
CAS # Component Percent
Not Available Lube Oil Additive with Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphoric Acid Salt, Borated Polyisobutenyl
Succinic Anhydride, Magnesium Alkylaryl Detergents, Solvent Extracted Mineral Oil 9-10
Not Available Lube Oil Additive with Ethylene and Propylene Copolymer 6-7
64742-65-0 Petroleum Distillates, Solvent Dewaxed Heavy Paraffinic Blend
64742-54-7 Petroleum Distillates, Hydrotreated Heavy Paraffinic Blend
Maybe this will give a clue on Kohler Oil...
Material Safety Data Sheet
Material Name: Kohler Command Universal Engine Oil SAE 10W30
Manufacturer Information
Warren Oil
2340 Hwy 301 North
Dunn, NC
* * * Section 2 - Composition / Information on Ingredients * * *
CAS # Component Percent
Not Available Lube Oil Additive with Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphoric Acid Salt, Borated Polyisobutenyl
Succinic Anhydride, Magnesium Alkylaryl Detergents, Solvent Extracted Mineral Oil 9-10
Not Available Lube Oil Additive with Ethylene and Propylene Copolymer 6-7
64742-65-0 Petroleum Distillates, Solvent Dewaxed Heavy Paraffinic Blend
64742-54-7 Petroleum Distillates, Hydrotreated Heavy Paraffinic Blend
Last edited:
Originally Posted by RC
I was looking at the Kohler 10w30 today while at TSC (price was $3.49/quart) and it is CH-4 rated. I thought this might be interesting to note because now knowing that it is also a HDEO I do feel a little differently about it. This combined with the idea that these manufactures oils might also have some additional additives in it as compared to a PCMO of the same grade and I am starting to think that maybe the Kohler oil is not that bad after all.
I will see if I can dig up a data sheet somewhere.
No its not that bad
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1470956/Re:_Briggs/Stratton_SAE_30_SJ/
I was looking at the Kohler 10w30 today while at TSC (price was $3.49/quart) and it is CH-4 rated. I thought this might be interesting to note because now knowing that it is also a HDEO I do feel a little differently about it. This combined with the idea that these manufactures oils might also have some additional additives in it as compared to a PCMO of the same grade and I am starting to think that maybe the Kohler oil is not that bad after all.
I will see if I can dig up a data sheet somewhere.
No its not that bad
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1470956/Re:_Briggs/Stratton_SAE_30_SJ/
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
You will certainly notice a difference pulling the cord of a cold-start push mower, during temps under 55 degrees, using straight 30W, versus-that of multi-viscosities like 5W40. I sure have, living here in Michigan, where temperatures vary significantly.
It's the #1 reason I abandoned straight 30W, about 28 years ago.
It's the #1 reason I abandoned straight 30W, about 28 years ago.
whats the difference between Briggs 30 wt mower oil and wal mart super tech 30 wt mower oil
10 year bump.
I think the primary difference and reason hot weather OPE often calls for SAE 30 is viscosity. Your basic Dino SAE 30 is much thicker than the ILSAC 30s usually HTHS of 3.5-3.6 vs 3.0-3.1. When your oil temp is 260 on a hot summer day this matters.
The multi-grade HDEO show the same thing, and often have more additives vs your "resource conserving" oils.
This really becomes apparent with generators running long periods in summer with high loads. The people that don't pay attention to the oil level running a ILSAC lube don't have a generator very long. The folks that run SAE 30 or 15w-40, 5w-40, 20w-50, 15w-50 and SAE 40 don't have problems with oil related engine failures. Often they don't have consumption issues either.
The multi-grade HDEO show the same thing, and often have more additives vs your "resource conserving" oils.
This really becomes apparent with generators running long periods in summer with high loads. The people that don't pay attention to the oil level running a ILSAC lube don't have a generator very long. The folks that run SAE 30 or 15w-40, 5w-40, 20w-50, 15w-50 and SAE 40 don't have problems with oil related engine failures. Often they don't have consumption issues either.
Originally Posted by SilverFusion2010
This really becomes apparent with generators running long periods in summer with high loads. The people that don't pay attention to the oil level running a ILSAC lube don't have a generator very long. The folks that run SAE 30 or 15w-40, 5w-40, 20w-50, 15w-50 and SAE 40 don't have problems with oil related engine failures. Often they don't have consumption issues either.
Heeeey.....what is happening here...
You are Yenkees....you MUST use 0w20 oily water...Cmon
This really becomes apparent with generators running long periods in summer with high loads. The people that don't pay attention to the oil level running a ILSAC lube don't have a generator very long. The folks that run SAE 30 or 15w-40, 5w-40, 20w-50, 15w-50 and SAE 40 don't have problems with oil related engine failures. Often they don't have consumption issues either.
Heeeey.....what is happening here...
You are Yenkees....you MUST use 0w20 oily water...Cmon
I live in FLORIDA. It's hot here. Winter is a couple weeks in February.
Originally Posted by exranger06
Pretty simple question: why do most small engines require SAE 30 oil instead of regular 5w-30 or 10w-30? I know they say 5w-30 and 10w-30 is recommended in cold temperatures because they flow better, but couldn't I just use it in higher temps too? Why even bother with the SAE 30?
multi-grade oil normally has a higher consumption rate during high heat use in small air cool engines. most of the newer engines I noticed such as the Briggs and Stratton do not require oil changes just add as needed maybe that's why some manufactures use 10w30 like Honda so the oil gets consumed and replaced more often with fresh oil.
my lawn mower gets HD sae30, snow blower 5w30 and generator 10w30. my mower can use 5w30 synthetic without the 10w30 consumption as per the manual states I may start using 5w30 synthetic in both the snow blower and lawn mower.
Pretty simple question: why do most small engines require SAE 30 oil instead of regular 5w-30 or 10w-30? I know they say 5w-30 and 10w-30 is recommended in cold temperatures because they flow better, but couldn't I just use it in higher temps too? Why even bother with the SAE 30?
multi-grade oil normally has a higher consumption rate during high heat use in small air cool engines. most of the newer engines I noticed such as the Briggs and Stratton do not require oil changes just add as needed maybe that's why some manufactures use 10w30 like Honda so the oil gets consumed and replaced more often with fresh oil.
my lawn mower gets HD sae30, snow blower 5w30 and generator 10w30. my mower can use 5w30 synthetic without the 10w30 consumption as per the manual states I may start using 5w30 synthetic in both the snow blower and lawn mower.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
