Hatred for Ethanol
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Originally Posted by sloinker
They have been using up to 10% ethanol in California for decades. Not an issue. Ethanol mixes freely with water and gasoline both. If you do get water contamination what do you do? Add alcohol. The whining you hear about it ruining this or that sounds like improperly prepared engines for long storage situations.
I am not saying that ethanol in gas doesn't cause some issues but you are on the right track. Most problems attributed to ethanol happen even without ethanol and come from poor maitenance or fuel storage and handling.
The only time I have ever had water get into a fuel system was when a roof leak had water dripping directly on the gas tank of a mower and ethanol took the water out of the system without me even having to remove the fuel. You would be surprised at how much water you can have in fuel and it still work in an engine.
They have been using up to 10% ethanol in California for decades. Not an issue. Ethanol mixes freely with water and gasoline both. If you do get water contamination what do you do? Add alcohol. The whining you hear about it ruining this or that sounds like improperly prepared engines for long storage situations.
I am not saying that ethanol in gas doesn't cause some issues but you are on the right track. Most problems attributed to ethanol happen even without ethanol and come from poor maitenance or fuel storage and handling.
The only time I have ever had water get into a fuel system was when a roof leak had water dripping directly on the gas tank of a mower and ethanol took the water out of the system without me even having to remove the fuel. You would be surprised at how much water you can have in fuel and it still work in an engine.
What?? How did you get corn starch in your mower??
Originally Posted by loneryder
Stabil treated gas sat in my mower for a couple of months. Wouldn't start. Took it to shop and mechanic was able to clean carb and showed me corn starch in the bowl, just like you get out of the box of corn starch.
Originally Posted by loneryder
Stabil treated gas sat in my mower for a couple of months. Wouldn't start. Took it to shop and mechanic was able to clean carb and showed me corn starch in the bowl, just like you get out of the box of corn starch.
Ethanol isnt in aviation fuel why? Exactly! Motorcycle riders dont like it either. I used to tell the guys out at Ft.Riley if they were deploying to use a bottle of Gumout Multitune w/ PEA and fill up on 87 Pure at Caseys. Never seen a single non starter.
Originally Posted by jhellwig
Originally Posted by sloinker
They have been using up to 10% ethanol in California for decades. Not an issue. Ethanol mixes freely with water and gasoline both. If you do get water contamination what do you do? Add alcohol. The whining you hear about it ruining this or that sounds like improperly prepared engines for long storage situations.
I am not saying that ethanol in gas doesn't cause some issues but you are on the right track. Most problems attributed to ethanol happen even without ethanol and come from poor maitenance or fuel storage and handling.
The only time I have ever had water get into a fuel system was when a roof leak had water dripping directly on the gas tank of a mower and ethanol took the water out of the system without me even having to remove the fuel. You would be surprised at how much water you can have in fuel and it still work in an engine.
Well all that may be true in Iowa, but come to Florida where the humidity level is 80-99% ten months of the year then park a boat or lawn mower with ethanol in it. The alcohol in the air is absorbed in the ethanol gas mixture. I have a water separator in my boat's fuel line and if it sits all winter the amount of water I have to drain from it would make you eat your words. There is nothing more embarrassing than leaving the dock with friends and giving the boat full throttle only for it to fall flat on it's face one minute later when the engine ingests that water that someone said gets burned up. BS to burning water. Try it sometimes.
When I can find E0 and fill the tank there are no problems with water in the tank even after long term storage.
Originally Posted by sloinker
They have been using up to 10% ethanol in California for decades. Not an issue. Ethanol mixes freely with water and gasoline both. If you do get water contamination what do you do? Add alcohol. The whining you hear about it ruining this or that sounds like improperly prepared engines for long storage situations.
I am not saying that ethanol in gas doesn't cause some issues but you are on the right track. Most problems attributed to ethanol happen even without ethanol and come from poor maitenance or fuel storage and handling.
The only time I have ever had water get into a fuel system was when a roof leak had water dripping directly on the gas tank of a mower and ethanol took the water out of the system without me even having to remove the fuel. You would be surprised at how much water you can have in fuel and it still work in an engine.
Well all that may be true in Iowa, but come to Florida where the humidity level is 80-99% ten months of the year then park a boat or lawn mower with ethanol in it. The alcohol in the air is absorbed in the ethanol gas mixture. I have a water separator in my boat's fuel line and if it sits all winter the amount of water I have to drain from it would make you eat your words. There is nothing more embarrassing than leaving the dock with friends and giving the boat full throttle only for it to fall flat on it's face one minute later when the engine ingests that water that someone said gets burned up. BS to burning water. Try it sometimes.
When I can find E0 and fill the tank there are no problems with water in the tank even after long term storage.
Originally Posted by jhs914
.... come to Florida where the humidity level is 80-99% ten months of the year then park a boat or lawn mower with ethanol in it.
When I can find E0 and fill the tank there are no problems with water in the tank even after long term storage.
I haven't noticed any difference with my cars with E10, but my OPE absolutely hate it. If I couldn't get E0 for my equipment, I would (and did) be replacing carburetors every year or so. And yes, I'm sure it's a Florida thing.
.... come to Florida where the humidity level is 80-99% ten months of the year then park a boat or lawn mower with ethanol in it.
When I can find E0 and fill the tank there are no problems with water in the tank even after long term storage.
I haven't noticed any difference with my cars with E10, but my OPE absolutely hate it. If I couldn't get E0 for my equipment, I would (and did) be replacing carburetors every year or so. And yes, I'm sure it's a Florida thing.
As far as OPE and other stuff that sits for a while (boats, motorcycles) I think the number of issues comes down to where you live.
Desert climate, equipment stored in an enclosed garage... You probably won't have issues.
Hot, humid climate with equipment stored in a non-climate controlled garage, you're probably more likely to have issues.
I suspect a motorcycle stored where I live isn't going to to have many issues in my non-heated garage at -40C because there isn't much moisture in the air. A snowmobile stored over the summer somewhere humid is going to have more issues.
Desert climate, equipment stored in an enclosed garage... You probably won't have issues.
Hot, humid climate with equipment stored in a non-climate controlled garage, you're probably more likely to have issues.
I suspect a motorcycle stored where I live isn't going to to have many issues in my non-heated garage at -40C because there isn't much moisture in the air. A snowmobile stored over the summer somewhere humid is going to have more issues.
I love it i wish we had e85 in spokane. I get the most power and fuel economy with e15.
The same reason the people who made buggies hated the horseless carriage.
The oil industry runs deep. People will kill to keep their way of life.
40 dollar oil made people hurt.
The oil industry runs deep. People will kill to keep their way of life.
40 dollar oil made people hurt.
It probably takes more BTUs of energy to grow, harvest and process the corn into ethanol than there is BTUs in the end product ethanol.
I can also run more boost with ethanol.
Reasons why I don't like ethanol
Very inefficient way to deliver fuel as it has to be trucked to the rack for blending vs pipeline.
10% blend means you get 3% less mpg or you need to burn 3% more fuel for the same miles - how is that good for the environment?
Consumers took a 3% price hike with the 3% mileage decrease
Hard on small engines - need to buy Shell premium to keep my OPEs running - lost a trimmer to ethanol RIP
Government intervention where it wasn't needed, imo of course
Very inefficient way to deliver fuel as it has to be trucked to the rack for blending vs pipeline.
10% blend means you get 3% less mpg or you need to burn 3% more fuel for the same miles - how is that good for the environment?
Consumers took a 3% price hike with the 3% mileage decrease
Hard on small engines - need to buy Shell premium to keep my OPEs running - lost a trimmer to ethanol RIP
Government intervention where it wasn't needed, imo of course
Originally Posted by Dylan1303
I can also run more boost with ethanol.
Maybe not,
87 octane is 87 octane , they just lower the octane in the gasoline to balance the higher octane ethanol.
Maybe more engine cylinder cooling but miniscule if anything at 10% blend.
I can also run more boost with ethanol.
Maybe not,
87 octane is 87 octane , they just lower the octane in the gasoline to balance the higher octane ethanol.
Maybe more engine cylinder cooling but miniscule if anything at 10% blend.
How is tracking good for the environment? Oil is dirty filthy in every way.
Try cooking your food with gasoline, diesel or kerosene, indoors.
Try cooking your food with gasoline, diesel or kerosene, indoors.
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Originally Posted by maxdustington
You don't need to be an engineer to do the math:
Gasoline = 115 BTU/gal
Ethanol = 76 BTU/gal
True, but you need to work with correct data to be an engineer. Your numbers are off by a factor of about a thousand.
You don't need to be an engineer to do the math:
Gasoline = 115 BTU/gal
Ethanol = 76 BTU/gal
True, but you need to work with correct data to be an engineer. Your numbers are off by a factor of about a thousand.
Originally Posted by Zee09
In my expensive mowers I have to run Star Tron every tank or I'm asking for big time issues
if the mower sits for a few weeks. Some of these mowers cost the same price as new economy cars.
Let them sit too long you won't get them started.
Ditto but I go out of my way and drive 5 miles to get non-ethanol gas for my power equipment. Ethanol gas has lower energy output than gas w/o ethanol so with the same driving conditions, you end up filling up more as a tankful of e10 gas doesn't last as long as non-e10 gas. Bottom line, were just making the corn farmers richer and giving more municipalities, gov't more revenue through gas tax.
On a typical week of just dropping my son off at school and going to/from work, I get 6-7 days on e10 gas. Before that I got 10 days on a tankful.
In my expensive mowers I have to run Star Tron every tank or I'm asking for big time issues
if the mower sits for a few weeks. Some of these mowers cost the same price as new economy cars.
Let them sit too long you won't get them started.
Ditto but I go out of my way and drive 5 miles to get non-ethanol gas for my power equipment. Ethanol gas has lower energy output than gas w/o ethanol so with the same driving conditions, you end up filling up more as a tankful of e10 gas doesn't last as long as non-e10 gas. Bottom line, were just making the corn farmers richer and giving more municipalities, gov't more revenue through gas tax.
On a typical week of just dropping my son off at school and going to/from work, I get 6-7 days on e10 gas. Before that I got 10 days on a tankful.
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Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Ethanol also attracts more water condensate than plain gasoline.
That is the point right there! Not complaining it generates a ton of marine injector business. Boats here sit 6-7 months a year and the damage is unbelievable when they are returned to service.
Its so bad I have some marinas that pull the injectors in Oct, clean them, drain the tanks and rails, treat the rails only with E0 and stabil 360 and store the boat. If it ever goes to E15 these guys will be setting their hair on fire.
Same problem in the US and Canada. Volvo Penta marine engines are especially bad in this regard- early in the EFI adoption years they used some component in the fuel system (I cannot recall exactly what) that is painted or powder coated, and the coating does not stand up long term to ethanol . It comes out and clogs injectors. So many people have the problem that its almost the go-to diagnosis for marine mechanics, and they do not go any further into proper diagnosis, leading to a lot of rip offs and poor customer satisfaction.
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Ethanol also attracts more water condensate than plain gasoline.
That is the point right there! Not complaining it generates a ton of marine injector business. Boats here sit 6-7 months a year and the damage is unbelievable when they are returned to service.
Its so bad I have some marinas that pull the injectors in Oct, clean them, drain the tanks and rails, treat the rails only with E0 and stabil 360 and store the boat. If it ever goes to E15 these guys will be setting their hair on fire.
Same problem in the US and Canada. Volvo Penta marine engines are especially bad in this regard- early in the EFI adoption years they used some component in the fuel system (I cannot recall exactly what) that is painted or powder coated, and the coating does not stand up long term to ethanol . It comes out and clogs injectors. So many people have the problem that its almost the go-to diagnosis for marine mechanics, and they do not go any further into proper diagnosis, leading to a lot of rip offs and poor customer satisfaction.
Originally Posted by jhs914
Originally Posted by jhellwig
Originally Posted by sloinker
They have been using up to 10% ethanol in California for decades. Not an issue. Ethanol mixes freely with water and gasoline both. If you do get water contamination what do you do? Add alcohol. The whining you hear about it ruining this or that sounds like improperly prepared engines for long storage situations.
I am not saying that ethanol in gas doesn't cause some issues but you are on the right track. Most problems attributed to ethanol happen even without ethanol and come from poor maitenance or fuel storage and handling.
The only time I have ever had water get into a fuel system was when a roof leak had water dripping directly on the gas tank of a mower and ethanol took the water out of the system without me even having to remove the fuel. You would be surprised at how much water you can have in fuel and it still work in an engine.
Well all that may be true in Iowa, but come to Florida where the humidity level is 80-99% ten months of the year then park a boat or lawn mower with ethanol in it. The alcohol in the air is absorbed in the ethanol gas mixture. I have a water separator in my boat's fuel line and if it sits all winter the amount of water I have to drain from it would make you eat your words. There is nothing more embarrassing than leaving the dock with friends and giving the boat full throttle only for it to fall flat on it's face one minute later when the engine ingests that water that someone said gets burned up. BS to burning water. Try it sometimes.
When I can find E0 and fill the tank there are no problems with water in the tank even after long term storage.
As a boat owner, +2. E10 is the only thing available in my area, and its a major PITA. And boats sit for 4-5 months at a time, in a humid area.
Originally Posted by jhellwig
Originally Posted by sloinker
They have been using up to 10% ethanol in California for decades. Not an issue. Ethanol mixes freely with water and gasoline both. If you do get water contamination what do you do? Add alcohol. The whining you hear about it ruining this or that sounds like improperly prepared engines for long storage situations.
I am not saying that ethanol in gas doesn't cause some issues but you are on the right track. Most problems attributed to ethanol happen even without ethanol and come from poor maitenance or fuel storage and handling.
The only time I have ever had water get into a fuel system was when a roof leak had water dripping directly on the gas tank of a mower and ethanol took the water out of the system without me even having to remove the fuel. You would be surprised at how much water you can have in fuel and it still work in an engine.
Well all that may be true in Iowa, but come to Florida where the humidity level is 80-99% ten months of the year then park a boat or lawn mower with ethanol in it. The alcohol in the air is absorbed in the ethanol gas mixture. I have a water separator in my boat's fuel line and if it sits all winter the amount of water I have to drain from it would make you eat your words. There is nothing more embarrassing than leaving the dock with friends and giving the boat full throttle only for it to fall flat on it's face one minute later when the engine ingests that water that someone said gets burned up. BS to burning water. Try it sometimes.
When I can find E0 and fill the tank there are no problems with water in the tank even after long term storage.
As a boat owner, +2. E10 is the only thing available in my area, and its a major PITA. And boats sit for 4-5 months at a time, in a humid area.
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