Sludge?

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Hi all,

First time poster, long time lurker.

My wife drives a 2014 Subaru Impreza. It has 95K miles on the clock, and we bought it new. Since new, I've done oil changes with Mobil 1 0W20, and a combination of Wix and Purolator oil filters, with both oil and filter changed every 7500 miles. 99% of her miles are highway miles, as she drives 300-400 miles a week on interstates, typically above 65 MPH unless there's a traffic jam. The only time the engine is not allowed to heat completely is every other Sunday morning when we drive 2 miles to church.

A couple weeks ago, the check engine light came on, registering a P000A fault. It's a slow camshaft response fault, and is usually caused by a faulty cam positioning sensor. Doing research on this, it appears to have been a fault with 2014 Imprezas, but ours has too many miles to have been the same issue. So I cleared it, it came on again, I took it to the dealer.

Dealer says that I have sludge in the engine. This clogged the CPS, causing the fault. I was mortified. I told him I changed my oil every 7500 miles. He asked if I had proof, and I did in the mileage book, but I had missed documenting one oil change, leading to a voided warranty, as one oil change appeared to have been done at 15K miles (funny how that just happens to be double every other interval, huh?). I'm also curious as to why it would be a warranty issue if it wasn't a known issue...

So, $600 later, I get the car back with a new CPS. A week later, another CPS trips the code, but clears the next day after a few drive cycles.

Guys, in a million miles in at least 10 different cars, I've never, ever had sludge with my engines. I tore down the motor out of my Oldsmobile (100K miles after I built it) and the oil pan looked squeaky clean. The old stuff gets dino oil every 3000 miles, the new stuff gets synthetic every 7500 or sooner, and they get new filters at every oil change.

Is this my fault? A flaw with the car? Something I can rectify by shortening the oil change intervals? Switch to a higher-end oil? My own DD is a 2011 Outback with 175K miles on it, with no CEL's ever. It's worked harder than her car for longer, with similar service intervals and no issues....

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
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They didn't show it to me in person, and I don't have a picture - it apparently came from the galley on the front of the heads, which is where buildup would occur. I was out of town for the few days they had it and didn't think to ask for a picture.

This dealership is about the most trustworthy one around, and I took it to them, because it appeared to be Subie specific enough for me to not take it to my local mechanic.

All oil changes are done hot, and I haven't seen anything hinky in the pan when I drain it. No funky colors, no thickness, nothing in the bottom of the pan.
 
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Well, what's done is done. However, I would want to see the sludge before I okay'd any work. I'm skeptical that 1 missed oil change 80k miles previously caused the issue.
 
Have you ever had to add coolant? Could be a slow coolant leak contaminating the oil & causing the sludge. Did you ever run any UOA's on her car? Do you have any used oil samples you can send in? That would be my first thought. Second would be PCV maybe a bad valve. Doesn't sound like an oil related issue, especially with M1 and your change intervals.
 
I agree. And the oil change wasn't missed, I just failed to document it. I'm just trying to avoid nonsense like this in the future. Guess I learned my lesson about the stealers around here...
 
Probably just giving you a reason that it failed, I doubt they could see sludge just from changing the CPS. Unless they had the valve cover off and they looked down the front timing cover, they were probably just trying to sell you a flush. If you are still having cam sensor issues, you may have a timing concern.
 
Mickey, just go ahead and call out the dealership name. And, I agree... Subarus are not known "sludgers", especially the FA/FB engines. If anything, I'd call this a lazy tech trying to pull one over...

I'm also pretty sure ONE missed documentation in 100k and 4 years should not be grounds to nullify a warranty. Also, if your bill was only $600, there's NO WAY the techs took off your valvecovers and verified there was sludge. We need to know the name of the dealer cuz this smells like last week's trout catch left on the bank...
 
Originally Posted by mickey85
They didn't show it to me in person, and I don't have a picture - it apparently came from the galley on the front of the heads, which is where buildup would occur. I was out of town for the few days they had it and didn't think to ask for a picture.

This dealership is about the most trustworthy one around, and I took it to them, because it appeared to be Subie specific enough for me to not take it to my local mechanic.

All oil changes are done hot, and I haven't seen anything hinky in the pan when I drain it. No funky colors, no thickness, nothing in the bottom of the pan.


I doubt you have any sludge tbh, that's why I asked. I suspect the dealer was lying to you.
 
Originally Posted by mickey85

First time poster, long time lurker.

My wife drives a 2014 Subaru Impreza. It has 95K miles on the clock, and we bought it new. Since new, I've done oil changes with Mobil 1 0W20, and a combination of Wix and Purolator oil filters, with both oil and filter changed every 7500 miles. 99% of her miles are highway miles, as she drives 300-400 miles a week on interstates, typically above 65 MPH unless there's a traffic jam. The only time the engine is not allowed to heat completely is every other Sunday morning when we drive 2 miles to church.
Your story does not check out!

Originally Posted by mickey85
Dealer says that I have sludge in the engine. This clogged the CPS, causing the fault. I was mortified. I told him I changed my oil every 7500 miles. He asked if I had proof, and I did in the mileage book, but I had missed documenting one oil change, leading to a voided warranty, as one oil change appeared to have been done at 15K miles (funny how that just happens to be double every other interval, huh?). I'm also curious as to why it would be a warranty issue if it wasn't a known issue...
$600 lesson on keeping good records and learning that the dealership will use any excuse to make you pay for warranty work. I would have wanted to see the sludge in the motor or I would have called corporate. I probably would have just called them the moment things got fishy, you might as well go nuclear right off the bat with people who are trying to screw you.

Using Tear-o-lators, and getting pushed around by the dealership is stuff that a normal BITOGer should not be doing. On top of that you have the effrontery to criticize perfect automaker Subaru on this board? You're no BITOGer!
 
Max, don't be a jerk. OP's asking for help because of a problem. He had held off posting for years for whatever reason, now you're giving him reason to leave.

If he had said he had sludge on his VW 1.8, would you be saying he was full of it? I doubt it. Go back under your bridge, troll.
 
In no way will "sludge" affect a cam sensor. There's no "clogging" a hall effect sensor.

Your engine isn't sludged, and the dealer is full of it. They didn't want to perform the work for free.

What warranty were you still under at 95k miles? Theirs?
 
Originally Posted by mickey85
They didn't show it to me in person, and I don't have a picture - it apparently came from the galley on the front of the heads, which is where buildup would occur. I was out of town for the few days they had it and didn't think to ask for a picture.

This dealership is about the most trustworthy one around, and I took it to them, because it appeared to be Subie specific enough for me to not take it to my local mechanic.

All oil changes are done hot, and I haven't seen anything hinky in the pan when I drain it. No funky colors, no thickness, nothing in the bottom of the pan.



It'd be worth a valve cover gasket and an hour's worth of an independent mechanic's time to see whether there is any sludge issue---I'm tending to doubt it. Unless you bought an extended warranty, it's well out of the factory coverage anyway.
 
Add another "stealership" story to the pile-I would rather do just about anything possible to avoid having to visit one. They literally cannot be trusted when a chance to rake in a few extra $ presents itself! Thought cam sensors were SEALED hall rffect metal detectors??
 
Perhaps sludge is a possible reason for similar failure in other covered engines.
Doubt the popped the valve cover and looked.
Could be a seal that won't hold pressure, or just localized wear somewhere.


My 2¢
 
Well it is what it is. Most important question is did they perform clean engine? If it was sludge thats something better be done.

I will just go run M1 and do Short OCI for few oil changes first.
 
Mickey, It's a shame you found that out the hard way. Castle Subaru is one place I would never buy a vehicle from (It used to be Nielsen Subaru). I bought my 09 Forester from them brand new before I knew better, and they pulled some shady things as well, but it was covered under warranty. The name on the sign has changed, but it's still the same shady people running it there.

Go to International Subaru of Merrillville on 30, they are a Stellar Performer dealership and have always been above board during the 10+ years I've dealt with them. No shady charges or questionable repairs... and one time I asked the service manager to do a valve adjustment on my 01 Forester. His answer? "I could do a bunch of services you don't need today and take your money, but I'd rather only do the services your car needs and keep you as a customer for life." I'm sold!

ISOM may also be willing to help you verify Castle was full of crap and document a formal complaint against them. Biggest reason I'd NEVER EVER buy a car or deal with Castle? When arguing with the sales manager about the problems we were having, I mentioned reporting his dealership to Subaru corporate. His answer was, "I don't care what Subaru says, I just sell their cars. You can complain to them all you want."
 
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Mickey, It's a shame you found that out the hard way. Castle Subaru is one place I would never buy a vehicle from (It used to be Nielsen Subaru). I bought my 09 Forester from them brand new before I knew better, and they pulled some shady things as well, but it was covered under warranty. The name on the sign has changed, but it's still the same shady people running it there.

Go to International Subaru of Merrillville on 30, they are a Stellar Performer dealership and have always been above board during the 10+ years I've dealt with them. No shady charges or questionable repairs... and one time I asked the service manager to do a valve adjustment on my 01 Forester. His answer? "I could do a bunch of services you don't need today and take your money, but I'd rather only do the services your car needs and keep you as a customer for life." I'm sold!

ISOM may also be willing to help you verify Castle was full of crap and document a formal complaint against them. Biggest reason I'd NEVER EVER buy a car or deal with Castle? When arguing with the sales manager about the problems we were having, I mentioned reporting his dealership to Subaru corporate. His answer was, "I don't care what Subaru says, I just sell their cars. You can complain to them all you want."


Thanks for this good info. I'm thinking that Mickey should be getting his $$ back from Castle Subaru, formerly Nielsen Subaru.


No WAY would a NA non-sludger engine sludge up with 7500 mile OCIs on M1. No way.
 
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