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Low Viscosity Effect on Heavy Duty Engine Components #4869092
09/14/18 11:51 PM
09/14/18 11:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,113
'Stralia
Shannow Online content OP
Shannow  Online Content OP

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,113
'Stralia
https://www.researchgate.net/public...t_on_heavy_duty_diesel_engine_components

Not a bad paper, exploring the wear behaviour between
15W-40 and 0W-40 HDMOs
15W40 and 10W-30 low HTHS oils, and some material changes to work around the increases in wear.

Re: Low Viscosity Effect on Heavy Duty Engine Components [Re: Shannow] #4869224
09/15/18 08:44 AM
09/15/18 08:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,260
CO
JLTD Online shocked
JLTD  Online Shocked

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,260
CO
Sounds fascinating, marked for later reading.


I use the overseas manual to choose my oil viscosity.

Using AMSOIL

Hers: 2008 Jeep Liberty 149k, SS5w30/Amsoil

His: 2015 4Runner 55k, OE5w30/Wix

Re: Low Viscosity Effect on Heavy Duty Engine Components [Re: Shannow] #4869250
09/15/18 09:26 AM
09/15/18 09:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 14,207
Illinois
tig1 Online content
tig1  Online Content

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 14,207
Illinois
yep, gotta use the right oil.


2007 Ford Fusion 243,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 71K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: Low Viscosity Effect on Heavy Duty Engine Components [Re: Shannow] #4869341
09/15/18 12:37 PM
09/15/18 12:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,204
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,204
Kalifornia Kollective
Thanks, very interesting, but dropping from XW-40 to 10W-30 is not terribly radical. Good 10W-30's may be approaching SAE 30 HD straight grades for performance ...


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Low Viscosity Effect on Heavy Duty Engine Components [Re: Shannow] #4869346
09/15/18 12:43 PM
09/15/18 12:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,671
pa
benjy Offline
benjy  Offline

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,671
pa
from reading it seems that the ONLY way thinner oils work is with newer coatings + metallurgy + although 500 hrs is a good test the "real world" coulh have different results! like drug manufactures that test their own drugs that always work i am skeptical of what oil manufacturers are "trying" to make us believe!!

Re: Low Viscosity Effect on Heavy Duty Engine Components [Re: Shannow] #4869428
09/15/18 02:28 PM
09/15/18 02:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,419
Jupiter, Florida
Cujet Offline
Cujet  Offline

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,419
Jupiter, Florida
Exactly, a 0W oil increases liner wear by 100%, but, but, but, we have newly developed components that will live a long time with that thin oil.

Of course they do. We've had very long life components for decades now. Good luck getting manufacturers to employ such expensive technology.

One interesting example includes Nikasil cylinder liners plated on to steel. It's a very robust combo (as long as there is no sulfur in the fuel) , and with the use of moly faced rings and moly coated or anodized piston skirts and other DLC coated parts, will outlast a "conventional" cast iron bore with chrome rings, about 2 to 1.

For double or triple the cost.

Last edited by Cujet; 09/15/18 02:33 PM.

People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: Low Viscosity Effect on Heavy Duty Engine Components [Re: BrocLuno] #4869537
09/15/18 05:01 PM
09/15/18 05:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 27,660
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 27,660
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted by BrocLuno
Thanks, very interesting, but dropping from XW-40 to 10W-30 is not terribly radical. Good 10W-30's may be approaching SAE 30 HD straight grades for performance ...

They were using a 10w-30 with an HTHS of 2.9, though, not a traditional HDEO 10w-30 of 3.5. I was confused until I saw that.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Low Viscosity Effect on Heavy Duty Engine Components [Re: Shannow] #4876380
09/23/18 01:35 AM
09/23/18 01:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,796
Slovenia EU
Kamele0N Offline
Kamele0N  Offline

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,796
Slovenia EU
I am waiting for StevieC to chime in smile


2008 Toyota Yaris 1ND-TV 1.4 D4-D Elf FullTech FE 5w30
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD Shell Rimula R6M 10w40
Re: Low Viscosity Effect on Heavy Duty Engine Components [Re: Kamele0N] #4878741
09/25/18 12:37 PM
09/25/18 12:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25,014
ON, Canada eh?
StevieC Offline
StevieC  Offline

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25,014
ON, Canada eh?
Originally Posted by Kamele0N
I am waiting for StevieC to chime in smile


This isn't a smoking gun either because it's not all engines under all applications tested with every oil formulation possible. I think that if the engineer that designed the engine properly with the use of a thinner viscosity in mind for normal operating conditions then it should serve the user quite well to far past expectations as I said previously. Are there going to be occasions where a thicker would perform better? Sure. Should we run a thicker oil all the time out of fear because we think we know better? Nope. That is what I was arguing in the other threads.

The answer at the end of the day is there is too many variables and we have missing information from the engineers that made said engine and said oil in use and what their take would be and reading world wide owners manuals is not the smoking gun folks think it is.

cheers


Last edited by StevieC; 09/25/18 12:40 PM.

'18 Caravan - 36k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w20, Fram Ultra, TC-W3 500:1
'06 Santa Fe - 535k KM (Retired)

There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluids! mad
Re: Low Viscosity Effect on Heavy Duty Engine Components [Re: StevieC] #4879438
09/25/18 11:02 PM
09/25/18 11:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,113
'Stralia
Shannow Online content OP
Shannow  Online Content OP

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,113
'Stralia
Yeah, you stated in the other thread(s) that as the studies aren't all engines and all circumstances, that they were equivalent to wild suppositions based on imagined engines, and imagined operational circumstances.

I disagree.


If it's the truth....it can handle the pressure !!!
Re: Low Viscosity Effect on Heavy Duty Engine Components [Re: Shannow] #4879578
09/26/18 07:01 AM
09/26/18 07:01 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,243
Fredericksburg, VA
JAG Offline
JAG  Offline

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,243
Fredericksburg, VA
It’s like not accepting Newton’s laws of motion because testing hasn’t been done on every mass and every net force.

Re: Low Viscosity Effect on Heavy Duty Engine Components [Re: JAG] #4879596
09/26/18 07:26 AM
09/26/18 07:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,113
'Stralia
Shannow Online content OP
Shannow  Online Content OP

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,113
'Stralia
Originally Posted by JAG
It’s like not accepting Newton’s laws of motion because testing hasn’t been done on every mass and every net force.


And the completely ridiculous to the posted topic "not the smoking gun" "all engines all circumstances" "world wide owners manuals" "too many variables"

Is akin the "protesteth too much" from Hamlet....


If it's the truth....it can handle the pressure !!!
Re: Low Viscosity Effect on Heavy Duty Engine Components [Re: Shannow] #4879618
09/26/18 08:03 AM
09/26/18 08:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,243
Fredericksburg, VA
JAG Offline
JAG  Offline

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,243
Fredericksburg, VA
Haha. The thoughts are more twisted than Gumby. I know not to argue with people on subjects in which they know more than I do.

Re: Low Viscosity Effect on Heavy Duty Engine Components [Re: Shannow] #4879670
09/26/18 09:29 AM
09/26/18 09:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25,014
ON, Canada eh?
StevieC Offline
StevieC  Offline

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25,014
ON, Canada eh?
Originally Posted by Shannow
Yeah, you stated in the other thread(s) that as the studies aren't all engines and all circumstances, that they were equivalent to wild suppositions based on imagined engines, and imagined operational circumstances.

I disagree.


As I said in the other thread. Does it warrant more investigation sure, is it a smoking gun for all situation absolutely not.


'18 Caravan - 36k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w20, Fram Ultra, TC-W3 500:1
'06 Santa Fe - 535k KM (Retired)

There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluids! mad
Re: Low Viscosity Effect on Heavy Duty Engine Components [Re: StevieC] #4880065
09/26/18 04:07 PM
09/26/18 04:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,113
'Stralia
Shannow Online content OP
Shannow  Online Content OP

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,113
'Stralia
Smoking gun for what ?

The paper is about..."the effects of Viscosity on Heavy Duty Engine Components"...it IS the investigation on the stated topic, not the subject of investigation.

By qualified people, not zealots whose understanding of science, engineering, and the scientific method asymptotically approaches zero.



Last edited by Shannow; 09/26/18 04:10 PM.

If it's the truth....it can handle the pressure !!!
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