One Dodge running 5W20 rewrites all the engineering texts in history ?

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Where did I say that? I provided my proof that it was fine in my case and went on to say there are many other vehicles that run 20wts just fine their whole lives.

This thread of yours is really childish.
 
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Couple of points…

Sample size - 1
Nothing blew up - a recently adopted measure of performance on BITOG, not adopted industry wide as yet.
UOA - per the SAE paper, was not a predictor of something ACTUALLY blowing up in a group of engines under test conditions.
 
OE's have been spec'ing various engines with 20 weights for over a decade.
OE's have developed the request to blenders for 16 weight oils which is even thinner establishing that if 20's were a problem then they would have back peddled to 30's instead of going even lower.

There is no proof that running 20wt's instead of 30wt's decreases engine life or implodes engines when used under normal circumstances.

The information you provided shows a small sample size, it fails to test every engine (I know impossible), and it fails to mention if OE's took steps to guard against this either in their designs when spec'ing a 20wt or in their communication with oil blenders of what the add pack needs are to overcome any 20wt issues that might exist.

Obviously this happened if now they are moving toward 16 weights.

There have been other members defending 20wt's yet you seem to want to pick my proof apart because I questioned you on the subject.

There are lots and lots of 20wt UOA's here not showing impending doom trend of wear metals climbing like crazy or even the 20 grade shearing to bits either.

Run a 30 or 40 or any weight I don't care but spreading misinformation that 20wt's aren't as good as 30wt's when OE's, UOA's, The General Population, and BITOG-er's experiences are contradicting you and engines are living perfectly fine lives on it is ridiculous on your part.
 
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imploding...is that a new SAE standard or burden of proof ?

See the hyperbole that you people bring to any discussion is the childish part...

Find a single post where I have once suggested the
* pile of failed engines
* engines imploding left right and centre
* engines failing just outside of warranty...

All of which your team has placed in my mouth.

I am offering what the OEMS and legislator are saying.
They are trading off economy (or CO2, pick your market), while trying to make "acceptable" compromises in longevity (that's Honda)
That they put in performance management systems to neuter the engines when it's performance envelope outstretches the lube they put in (That's Subaru/Toyota in the BRZ/86 "sports car")
When they do so, they MUST make every reasonable effort to ensure that owners use those lubes (that's the EPA to Honda and Ford).

And if the car makes it to the junkyard with 100,000 miles left on the engine rather than 150,000 miles, it's a perfectly valid tradeoff.
 
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4290245/Ford_4.6L_DOHC_oil_opinions_-_

Scott Whitehead - Engine Development Systems Engineer, Ford Motor Company - Quote:
"I've seen the dyno testing. I've probably looked at several hundred engines disassembled and spread out on inspection tables. And I've been involved in testing to resolve issues where varying the oil viscosity was part of the test. Please do not put 5w-20 or less into a mod motor. Please. This is especially true in 4v motors. 5W-30 is probably a good oil for the street with mixed temperatures. Trading a very small FE improvement in exchange for a large durability safety margin is not something I'm interested in doing"

Also, more info from withing Ford:
http://mach1registry.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112712

Ford Racing Group apparently feels the same way:

FRPP Group - Quote:
"DO NOT go back to using 5w-20"

Some of the best data from the modular community has come from Nick McKinney - Quote:
"I have said it a few times now, heavier oil has better protection especially in the cam bores. ---I get 2-3 sets of modular heads a week through here, and any lay person just from looking would pick the 500,000 mile cores run on 15W-40 diesel spec all their lives over the typical Mustang head run 50,000 miles on the light stuff"
 
The wifes new F350 has 5W-30 as the factory recommended oil.The 6.2 is a 2 valve port injected modern dinosaur engine.
 
Since you brought it up though... Here is the Journey UOA for all to see. I had 20wt it's whole life. Where does this look like the 20 is a problem? I know it's one case but surely it would be horrible.

[Linked Image]
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4290245/Ford_4.6L_DOHC_oil_opinions_-_

Scott Whitehead - Engine Development Systems Engineer, Ford Motor Company:

Quote: "I've seen the dyno testing. I've probably looked at several hundred engines disassembled and spread out on inspection tables. And I've been involved in testing to resolve issues where varying the oil viscosity was part of the test. Please do not put 5w-20 or less into a mod motor. Please. This is especially true in 4v motors. 5W-30 is probably a good oil for the street with mixed temperatures. Trading a very small FE improvement in exchange for a large durability safety margin is not something I'm interested in doing"


Right a mod motor. Not a typical street motor that majority of vehicles are fine with 20's.
 
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My point is there is a place for 30wt's etc. but that the majority of street vehicles that spec a 20wt will be just fine and will see no difference in life using it over a 30wt.

Again this isn't for beating on a Turbo, towing, hauling, or extreme heat or where the OE called for a thicker weight.

Cruising around town, down the highway in a typical street vehicle where a 20 was spec'ed will be just fine it's entire life and will see no less life than a 30wt.
 
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Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4290245/Ford_4.6L_DOHC_oil_opinions_-_

Scott Whitehead - Engine Development Systems Engineer, Ford Motor Company:

Quote: "I've seen the dyno testing. I've probably looked at several hundred engines disassembled and spread out on inspection tables. And I've been involved in testing to resolve issues where varying the oil viscosity was part of the test. Please do not put 5w-20 or less into a mod motor. Please. This is especially true in 4v motors. 5W-30 is probably a good oil for the street with mixed temperatures. Trading a very small FE improvement in exchange for a large durability safety margin is not something I'm interested in doing"


Right a mod motor. Not a typical street motor that majority of vehicles are fine with 20's.


Yet Ford specifies 5W-20 for their modular motors ... go figure (hint: CAFE credits).
whistle.gif
 
mod-modular...a VERY street engine...
BTW, it's difficult to keep up with the edits...makes the conversation very disjointed...
 
Pardon me for proof reading and trying to convey the points more clearly.

I said what I wanted to say you can burn yourself out in this thread posting whatever you like. I'm good.
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4290245/Ford_4.6L_DOHC_oil_opinions_-_

Scott Whitehead - Engine Development Systems Engineer, Ford Motor Company:

Quote: "I've seen the dyno testing. I've probably looked at several hundred engines disassembled and spread out on inspection tables. And I've been involved in testing to resolve issues where varying the oil viscosity was part of the test. Please do not put 5w-20 or less into a mod motor. Please. This is especially true in 4v motors. 5W-30 is probably a good oil for the street with mixed temperatures. Trading a very small FE improvement in exchange for a large durability safety margin is not something I'm interested in doing"


Right a mod motor. Not a typical street motor that majority of vehicles are fine with 20's.



Mod motor = Ford Modular, which includes the 4.6L staple in the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car as well as the 32V "Intec" (iirc) version in the Continental and Aviator as well as the Cobra, 4.6L in the Mustang, Explorer, F-150, Expedition, 5.4L 2V in the F-series, Expedition and Excursion, 32V version in the Navigator....etc as well as the 6.8L V10 (I'm sure I missed some).

You could also expand that to include the currently 5.0L Coyote engine.

The Modular was originally spec'd for 5w-30, which is why I primarily ran 0w-30 in our Expedition.
 
There have been plenty of childish and illogical arguments on both sides in these endless inconclusive thick-vs.-thin arguments. How 'bout sticking to reality?
 
Originally Posted by Shannow

That they put in performance management systems to neuter the engines when it's performance envelope outstretches the lube they put in (That's Subaru/Toyota in the BRZ/86 "sports car")


And Ford with the Mustang GT non Track Pack. Track Pack brought an oil cooler and 5w-50.
 
I edited it because I hadn't spelled it out. My point was that it was series. And IMO it's because of improper engineering to handle the 20wt oil so it should be back peddled as a band-aid solution. There will always be these cases but it's not the majority of the engines out there that this is happening to. Or we wouldn't now see 16wt's.

As for the Mustang that's a performance application.
 
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I'm certainly not one to defend StevieC, but I think Shannow may need to take a break from the board for a while. This is beneath him, or at least it was beneath him at one point.
 
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