Need help with oil pan removal (3800 V6)

[R18Civic]

I spun a bearing in this 3.8, was going to throw a short block in it but the light knock and lack of particles in the oil I drained out have me hoping I can wet sand the journal and throw a new bearing on whichever rod is knocking.

I got everything I out (due to my large hands I had to pull the passenger cv axle and oil filter housing to get to the bracket) which hid the last oil pan bolt.

Turns out someone else had been into the oil pan as it has no windage tray/gasket and has straight rtv on it.

However that sucker is on nice and tight. I tried a prybar but was afraid of chipping the cast aluminum and a 2x4 and mini sledge didn't work either. Not sure what more I can do without pulling the engine at this point.

 

[mehullica]

https://www.otctools.com/products/pan-seal-cutter

Lots of versions of these. Work great

 

[R18Civic]

For 120 bucks I'll take my chance using the oil level sensor hole as my pry point ...³

 

[Whipcitywrencher]

Try softening it up with one of these.Then pry it off.


heat gun

 

[demarpaint]

Can you work a paint scraper between the pan and the block and work it around the pan as much as possible? Then pry it off. Sometimes all you need is one or two areas to get it started and it will come off.

 

[FowVay]

I'll second the attempt at using the heat gun. Heat the pan flange and work your way around.

 

[R18Civic]

Had no room for anything. Got desperate and put a pry bar in the oil level sensor hole but was afraid to put too much muscle behind it for fear of damaging the threads, tried a putty knife, razor blade and flat blade screwdriver with hammer taps to no avail.

Whoever put this thing on last must've ran the bolts down with an impact because the gap between block and pan wouldn't have accommodated a piece of paper. Went back to the first thing I tried yesterday and wailed on with it a dead blow and it just fell right off.

Pulled the windage tray off and still have ferrous metal and gold flakes in the pan, not as bad as the first oil change after the knocking sound started but still not good considering I RTV'd magnets all over the pan bottom before changing oil.

Can't see anything visibly wrong so the next step unfortunately is to pull each conrod cap to inspect the bearings.

 

[R18Civic]

From the sound of it the whole bottom end is shot. I can grab the rod caps by hand and wiggle it enough to get a good metallic click and visually see them move. Back to plan A.

 

[R18Civic]

 

[MarkM66]

Bearing look bad. How does the journal look?

Where did all this contamination come from?

 

[WyrTwister]

Mains ?

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted by MarkM66
Bearing look bad. How does the journal look?

Where did all this contamination come from?


That sort of damage is common after engine work when a Scotch-Brite pad was used on a whiz wheel for cleaning the block during HG replacement for example.
Not saying that's the case but if one was used its a real possibility. Scotch-Brite around open engines = disaster.

 

[R18Civic]

Originally Posted by MarkM66
Bearing look bad. How does the journal look?

Where did all this contamination come from?


The whole thing is [censored]. The journals have score marks too and the bearing was stuck to the crank. Had to push up on the rod and pop it off. Filter was on so tight I tried a claw wrench which tore some pin holes in the filter without loosening it much, my other wrenches didn't fair much better so I cut it off and wiped the mounting surfaces clean before installing new oil and filter.

The pinholes caused leakswhich ended with a low oil light prior to me cutting it off. Only went about 200 miles between fresh oil and new filter before the knocking started.

I'm assuming due to the damage and path of oil after getting sucked into the pickup the cam bearings are shot as well. Probably just gonna swap blocks, the price of specialty tools needed to pull the balancer, install the rods and pistons and possibly hone the cylinders equates to a crate engine.

 

[R18Civic]

Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by MarkM66
Bearing look bad. How does the journal look?

Where did all this contamination come from?


That sort of damage is common after engine work when a Scotch-Brite pad was used on a whiz wheel for cleaning the block during HG replacement for example.
Not saying that's the case but if one was used its a real possibility. Scotch-Brite around open engines = disaster.

The whiz wheel almost caused issues, I had shop towels stuffed in each cylinder but when I removed them some of the particles fell back down into the cylinder. Took about 45 minutes with my thinnest feeler gauge and a vacuum to get the grit out from between the piston and cylinder walls. I opted for heavy duty grease in conjunction with towels for the rear bank.

 

[Trav]

The stuff goes everywhere, down oil returns in the head, the intake valley, you name it and without taking the block apart and washing everything you cant get it all. The individual particles are smaller than the eye can see.
No filter can catch it either before it tears the bearings and possibly crank and cam apart, for this reason I don't use one under the hood even with the engine closed up for fear it may get into the air intake system, it will get by the air filter also..

In a couple of hundred miles the engine bearings can be shot, it doesn't take very much of this abrasive dust to do it either, Again I am not saying this is 100% the cause but its something to think about when you do the next one.
Hope you find a good bottom end.

 

[R18Civic]

It was metal from filter that caused it. The amount of metal shed was unbelievable. My oil catch pan had glitter swirls in top of the oil.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Hemispheres
It was metal from filter that caused it. The amount of metal shed was unbelievable. My oil catch pan had glitter swirls in top of the oil.

If there was that much metal in the filter in the first place, wasn't there an underlying mechanical issue that was the root problem?

 

[R18Civic]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Hemispheres
It was metal from filter that caused it. The amount of metal shed was unbelievable. My oil catch pan had glitter swirls in top of the oil.

If there was that much metal in the filter in the first place, wasn't there an underlying mechanical issue that was the root problem?



I opted for a die grinder after all my filter wrenches failed. Shoulda punched a hole with a screw driver.