Airbags vs seatbelts - safety

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My coworker made a comment the other day that really intrigued me. He took an automotive safety class. In his class, the teacher said airbags add minimal improvements to safety of a vehicle's occupants. He said a 3 point seat belt really accounts for 90% improvement in crash safety, But airbags, which are more of a marketing gimmick made to satisfy public paranoia. He also said a lot of auto companies want to remove airbags, but regulations won't let them. Interesting comment. Any of you know anything about this? Validation? True or false?
 
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False. The " Teacher " doesn't know what he is saying. Just take a look at a slow motion crash test with a seat belted dummy and see for yourself how the dummy's body and head is cushioned by the airbag. The real dummy is the teacher. The seat belts help a lot but additional cushioning, especially to the head, is obvious with the airbags.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw0Ps8-KDlQ
 
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The main problem with airbags in the United States is that the NHTSA regulations require airbags to insure the survival of un-belted drivers and passengers- which I firmly believe is an unwarranted interference in the law of natural selection.it also explains the presence of padded panels under the dash- which prevent un-belted imbeciles from sliding into the footwell. Airbag deployment is different when the intent is to provide protection to a restrained driver or passenger.
It's sad to see even a little bit of chlorine removed from the genetic pool...
 
Originally Posted by Kurtatron
My coworker made a comment the other day that really intrigued me. He took an automotive safety class. In his class, the teacher said airbags add minimal improvements to safety of a vehicle's occupants. He said a 3 point seat belt really accounts for 90% improvement in crash safety, But airbags, which are more of a marketing gimmick made to satisfy public paranoia. He also said a lot of auto companies want to remove airbags, but regulations won't let them. Interesting comment. Any of you know anything about this? Validation? True or false?


Even if that were true, I'm not sure how meaningful it'd be. The 90% improvement in crash safety would be like reducing a holocaust to a homicide epidemic, and the next improvement would be like cutting that down to the occasional manslaughter. Is the second step silly just because it wasn't as big? I don't think so.

I'm sure many automakers would love to remove airbags. The question is why? If they really think passenger safety could be improved without airbags, that'd be interesting. But in that case, I'd expect to see those companies causing an absolute ruckus and lobbying like mad to have the regulations changed. I think it's far more likely that this is just another case of corporations looking out for their bottom lines, as they should. If it's even true, that is.

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Good luck going back now. What would be the sales numbers for the vehicle that comes out with no airbags.
 
Originally Posted by MCompact
The main problem with airbags in the United States is that the NHTSA regulations require airbags to insure the survival of un-belted drivers and passengers- which I firmly believe is an unwarranted interference in the law of natural selection.it also explains the presence of padded panels under the dash- which prevent un-belted imbeciles from sliding into the footwell. Airbag deployment is different when the intent is to provide protection to a restrained driver or passenger.
It's sad to see even a little bit of chlorine removed from the genetic pool...


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European airbags are smaller and deploy with less force
 
Originally Posted by MCompact
The main problem with airbags in the United States is that the NHTSA regulations require airbags to insure the survival of un-belted drivers and passengers...


Nailed it. The airbags you get in the US aren't what the rest of the world gets.
 
We get a lot of tourists involved in prangs here, major and minor. The ones from the US often don't wear seatbelts - flung from vehicle and dead, sad for their families. Tourists from other countries know the drill - get in the car, and put on the seat belt.
 
Nobody is this town would dare to not wear a seatbelt, drive over speed limit, run a stop sign … nothing … cops everywhere and write tickets all day/night …
However as one of the most travelled individuals on this site … I see other parts of the world drive way too fast and no respect at all for stop signs, red lights, speed limits (if they have one) or pedestrians
 
Originally Posted by hpb
Originally Posted by MCompact
The main problem with airbags in the United States is that the NHTSA regulations require airbags to insure the survival of un-belted drivers and passengers...


Nailed it. The airbags you get in the US aren't what the rest of the world gets.


Well they're designed to take into account whether the occupant is belted in or not. Seats also have weight sensors.

http://thecooperfirm.com/advanced-frontal-air-bags-know/
 
Yes,
historically, while some countries mandated seat belts, other countries resisted and ended up with airbags as a safety measure to protect those who won't protect themselves.

Seatbelts were a massive improvement in safety.

Would I give up the airbags in the Colorado and Captiva because seatbelts are "90% as good" ?

Nope...
 
That's my recollection, seatbelts did a massive amount of "saving".

Airbags help control body movement thus lessening injuries. I'm sure in some cases that does help someone live. But not being bashed against the steering wheel, through the windshield or out the door was the big life saver. Always has been. Everything else seems to have been going after incrementally smaller gains (crumple zones, going from two airbags to six to more, etc).

It'd be interesting to see what the impact of side airbags have been. Reduction of injuries from T-bone accidents might account for the lion's share of death-reduction from airbags for all I know.
 
After nearly 11 years in crash investigation and reconstruction of fatality and serious injury crashes, I mostly agree with the teacher. Air bags help, but if seat belt compliance was 100% we mostly wouldn't even need them. While they can be helpful, especially in an extreme head on collision, they are useless in a lot of other scenarios (such as a roll over).

They add a tremendous amount of expense to the vehicle, have needlessly caused injuries and fatalities (can you say Takata) and are a common source of incidental recalls as well. There is now a new one on my KIA over a sensor. My Lincoln just had the passenger side replaced over the Takata debacle. Of course we had been driving around with my wife over there before we knew about it.

As mentioned, I have seen a lot of fatalities that were completely avoidable due lack of seat belt use, many at low speeds (such as a roll over down into a ditch in inclement weather). I don't remember ever taking a fatality where we said "If only the air bag had worked better, he'd be alive now".
 
If talking about the front airbag only there is some truth to it.

BUT side curtain air bags are a whole other ball of wax. Those will help weather you are buckled up or not. Some older small cars the difference was huge in crash test.
 
Airbags are called a Supplemental Restraint System (SRS), so yes, the seatbelt (and wearing it) is the primary cause of reduced fatalities.

Airbags reduce the overall severity of injuries (if a seatbelt is worn) in an accident. Airbags can cause in increase in injuries if no seatbelt is worn in a minor accident.

Sure car makers want to remove airbags, it restricts designs and increases cost (initial as well as recall).

I have seen the direct effect of airbags and correct use of seatbelts (working on an ambulance and in the ER) and I for one (and my family) wear seatbelts all the time and expect the airbags to do their job as well.
 
Air bags are designed to be used in conjunction with seatbelts, not instead of them, as already mentioned. That's where people get themselves into trouble thinking the airbag should be helping them with no seatbelt.
 
Originally Posted by Garak
Air bags are designed to be used in conjunction with seatbelts, not instead of them, as already mentioned. That's where people get themselves into trouble thinking the airbag should be helping them with no seatbelt.



Right off the bat I can think of a good case for both. Depending on your distance from the steering wheel, the airbag will aggravate a whiplash if you are not belted in.
 
Originally Posted by KCJeep
After nearly 11 years in crash investigation and reconstruction of fatality and serious injury crashes, I mostly agree with the teacher. Air bags help, but if seat belt compliance was 100% we mostly wouldn't even need them. While they can be helpful, especially in an extreme head on collision, they are useless in a lot of other scenarios (such as a roll over).

They add a tremendous amount of expense to the vehicle, have needlessly caused injuries and fatalities (can you say Takata) and are a common source of incidental recalls as well. There is now a new one on my KIA over a sensor. My Lincoln just had the passenger side replaced over the Takata debacle. Of course we had been driving around with my wife over there before we knew about it.

As mentioned, I have seen a lot of fatalities that were completely avoidable due lack of seat belt use, many at low speeds (such as a roll over down into a ditch in inclement weather). I don't remember ever taking a fatality where we said "If only the air bag had worked better, he'd be alive now".


What I don't like is how they're reported. There was a local story here not too long ago where someone out on bail was running from the police and did a head on collision with another driver who was just coming back from the hospital after his wife gave birth. They both died but it did mention one passenger who was ejected and later died. No mention of seat belts. I'm kinda guessing that no one was wearing a seat belt. But who knows, the speed limit on that road is about 40 and even with a speeding car a head on collision might be survivable with seat belt and air bags, the guy was driving an SUV too so it should have been a bit more survivable. But most of the time whenever there's an accident, that info is never included.
 
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