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Re: New ATVs? [Re: redhat] #4853236
08/28/18 11:13 AM
08/28/18 11:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 187
utah,usa
kawie_guy Offline
kawie_guy  Offline

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 187
utah,usa
I am in Utah, home of the most extensive trail systems in the US. (Oh, and we also have Moab, the offroad capital of the world). Atvs are a way of life out here. I am in an atv club that has a wide variety of machines, and we ride together once a month. I personally trail ride two times per week, and average about 3000 miles per year. There isn't much that I haven't seen when it comes to atvs. I have owned a wide variety going all the way back to the first quad ever made...the 1983 Suzuki LT125.

I have owned two Yamahas, and several friends and family have had them as well. My feelings on Yamaha are that they are well made atvs. However, the Grizzly and Kodiak have historically always had too short of a wheelbase for the seat height. They feel like they are wanting to roll over. But, that has been improved on the new ones, and the Kodiak in particular is now lower and wider. If I were buying a Yamaha today, I'd definitely get the limited edition Kodiak which has the locker.

Honda. Who hasn't ridden one? They are all over out here. Their niche is reliability, gear driven, and good resale value. However, they are all severely underpowered, and the gear driven tranny is button operated on most models. I hate it. Also, the tranny will most likely total out the machine if it ever breaks out of warranty. CVTs are quicker operating, and are cheap to fix.

Polaris..easily the most broken down atv I've encountered. And some of their designs (like the ebs, adc, and battery placement, just to name a few) qualify for some of the most boneheaded engineering in mankind's history. There has not been one group ride this year in our club where there wasn't a Polaris that broke something. Several atv rental places based along our trail systems initially bought Polaris fleets. After realizing what a mistake that was from a servicing standpoint, almost all of them have replaced their Polaris fleets with another brand. Polaris' only niche as far as I can see are they have a cushy ride (if you are into that type of vague, sloshy feel), and they have cheap entry-level vehicles with good rebates. They also have lots of storage compartments, and a third headlight.

Kawasaki.... as my name implies, I am a Kawie fan. Its my current atv that I ride the most. I've got 16,000 miles on it, and I've spent less than $300 fixing things that I didn't break myself. And still, I get a smile everytime I ride it. It's the only Japanese brand to offer a vtwin. You may not need the power of a vtwin, but once you ride one, it's near impossible to go back to a single cylinder quad. In my opinion, if you want to trail ride, you've got to buy a quad that will motivate you to get out and ride it because it's FUN to ride. If you buy something that doesn't excite you, chances are you will get bored with it eventually.
Downsides to Kawie are they don't have many options anymore. You can either get a 300cc 2wd machine, or a top of the line 750cc 4wd. Their 750 is a handful for a beginner, but not near as big and heavy as a comparable Polaris or Can Am.

Can Am....
They are kind of the enigma. Some people I know love them, others curse them. If you get a good one, reliability seems good. But if you get a bad one, be prepared to use your warranty a lot.
Their niche is definitely horse power. They win the hp wars in every engine size.
I also really love their rear end suspension design. It combines the sporty feel of a solid axle with the plushness of an irs.
They also offer some great prices on their entry level 570cc base models.
Other than Kawie, Can Am is the only other brand that I find exhilarating to ride. Even their smaller engines like the 570 have some serious acceleration. I just wish they'd improve their quality control, and not charge an arm and a leg for oem parts.

There's my long winded breakdown. Whatever you do, go test ride it before you buy it. Quads are very hard to predict which one you're going to like best just by looking at stat sheets. You really need to feel it in the flesh.

Re: New ATVs? [Re: Slick17601] #4853429
08/28/18 02:40 PM
08/28/18 02:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,656
Buffalo, NY
JTK Offline
JTK  Offline

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,656
Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted By: Slick17601
Originally Posted By: JTK
Talk about being out of the loop. My last ATV was a 1985 Yamaha 225dx 3-wheeler I had until about 1989. Yamahas have always been nice machines.


That brings back memories, I had a 1984 225DX that I put enough miles on to wear out 2 sets of rear bearings. I rode the daylights out of that thing!


Same here!! 2 sets of rear bearings. Several sets of tires, new forks at one point. Pretty sure I broke the recoil start rope a few times too. That thing was a bugger to pull start if the 10sec worth of E-start couldn't do it or a bump start couldn't do it.

Mine had what sounded like a rod knock later on, but it still ran like a top.

Never had an issue with the shaft drive or rear suspension.


2017 Ram 1500 4x4, 3.6L.
2016 Nissan Quest SV (Babe magnet IV)
2015 Nissan Versa 1.6 S
Re: New ATVs? [Re: redhat] #4853493
08/28/18 04:07 PM
08/28/18 04:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,271
WI.
dblshock Offline
dblshock  Offline

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,271
WI.
I run similar terrain to you here in WI...most important issue is to get back home and alot of that is not only the machine but the implements you'll carry..I also ride mostly solo or with no more than one partner, I don't eat dust. here are some important equipment items I carry.

More Power Puller

100FT. 4x25'

1871

cheyenne rig

flat

saw

Kolpin

Firstaid

glasses


I run Hondas, six of them currently from 2-'84 Trikes to '18 Rubicon including a Rincon and a couple Foremans...right now all around the loaded-up Rubicon is king...it's easily all you'll need....remember HQ ATV riding is usually below 15 mph.

By spec every Honda must float, very important when fording.

keep wheel weight/tire low as possible, try not to exceed the factory weight, lighter is even better.

I could go on for hours


05 Lexus GX470 167k
640:1 TCW-3
5/30 10/30 5/40 15/40
Michelin Latitude

06 4Runner SR5 150k
640:1 TCW-3
Citgo 10/30 conv XG3614
Falken Wildpeak AT3W
Re: New ATVs? [Re: kawie_guy] #4859212
09/03/18 11:01 PM
09/03/18 11:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,167
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,167
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by kawie_guy
I am in Utah, home of the most extensive trail systems in the US. (Oh, and we also have Moab, the offroad capital of the world). Atvs are a way of life out here. I am in an atv club that has a wide variety of machines, and we ride together once a month. I personally trail ride two times per week, and average about 3000 miles per year. There isn't much that I haven't seen when it comes to atvs. I have owned a wide variety going all the way back to the first quad ever made...the 1983 Suzuki LT125.

I have owned two Yamahas, and several friends and family have had them as well. My feelings on Yamaha are that they are well made atvs. However, the Grizzly and Kodiak have historically always had too short of a wheelbase for the seat height. They feel like they are wanting to roll over. But, that has been improved on the new ones, and the Kodiak in particular is now lower and wider. If I were buying a Yamaha today, I'd definitely get the limited edition Kodiak which has the locker.

Honda. Who hasn't ridden one? They are all over out here. Their niche is reliability, gear driven, and good resale value. However, they are all severely underpowered, and the gear driven tranny is button operated on most models. I hate it. Also, the tranny will most likely total out the machine if it ever breaks out of warranty. CVTs are quicker operating, and are cheap to fix.

Polaris..easily the most broken down atv I've encountered. And some of their designs (like the ebs, adc, and battery placement, just to name a few) qualify for some of the most boneheaded engineering in mankind's history. There has not been one group ride this year in our club where there wasn't a Polaris that broke something. Several atv rental places based along our trail systems initially bought Polaris fleets. After realizing what a mistake that was from a servicing standpoint, almost all of them have replaced their Polaris fleets with another brand. Polaris' only niche as far as I can see are they have a cushy ride (if you are into that type of vague, sloshy feel), and they have cheap entry-level vehicles with good rebates. They also have lots of storage compartments, and a third headlight.

Kawasaki.... as my name implies, I am a Kawie fan. Its my current atv that I ride the most. I've got 16,000 miles on it, and I've spent less than $300 fixing things that I didn't break myself. And still, I get a smile everytime I ride it. It's the only Japanese brand to offer a vtwin. You may not need the power of a vtwin, but once you ride one, it's near impossible to go back to a single cylinder quad. In my opinion, if you want to trail ride, you've got to buy a quad that will motivate you to get out and ride it because it's FUN to ride. If you buy something that doesn't excite you, chances are you will get bored with it eventually.
Downsides to Kawie are they don't have many options anymore. You can either get a 300cc 2wd machine, or a top of the line 750cc 4wd. Their 750 is a handful for a beginner, but not near as big and heavy as a comparable Polaris or Can Am.

Can Am....
They are kind of the enigma. Some people I know love them, others curse them. If you get a good one, reliability seems good. But if you get a bad one, be prepared to use your warranty a lot.
Their niche is definitely horse power. They win the hp wars in every engine size.
I also really love their rear end suspension design. It combines the sporty feel of a solid axle with the plushness of an irs.
They also offer some great prices on their entry level 570cc base models.
Other than Kawie, Can Am is the only other brand that I find exhilarating to ride. Even their smaller engines like the 570 have some serious acceleration. I just wish they'd improve their quality control, and not charge an arm and a leg for oem parts.

There's my long winded breakdown. Whatever you do, go test ride it before you buy it. Quads are very hard to predict which one you're going to like best just by looking at stat sheets. You really need to feel it in the flesh.


Love your post!

I'm an occasional rider that started on a Yamaha 225DX trike, upgraded to a mid-80's Suzuki 2WD 250 sport quad and now own a Can-Am. The group I ride in used to be incredibly diverse. We had a Blaster, a Suzuki 450 sport, Grizzly, Polaris, Honda 250 (slower than paint drying) and the odd dirt bike. We'd go out in the trails and when you hit a straight the dirt bikes would take off and the quads would all kinda of [censored] around except for the Blaster, which would tear after the bikes.

Then one of the guys bought a Renegade. That was a game changer. Then another guy bought a Renegade. So then you had these two ridiculously fast and comfortable quads that would just walk everything else. My buddy with the 250 Honda was tired of riding a lumber wagon that couldn't catch the slowest quad in the group and so the year before last he upgraded to a Can-Am Outlander Max 850, the guy with the Grizzly bought an Outlander 650 and I bought my Outlander Max 1000R a few months after my buddy got his 850 because it was in stock and the price difference was negligible (was originally going to get an 850).

The folks with the Renegades seem to have gone through the teething issues (belts, water getting into the CVT..etc) as the more recent ones seem to be more problem-free. Will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens as the miles rack up, but the Outlanders have all been excellent so far.

I'm guessing our scenery is a bit different from yours though, LOL



IMG_0338.jpgIMG_0154.jpgIMG_0155.jpg

2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: New ATVs? [Re: OVERKILL] #4859465
09/04/18 10:18 AM
09/04/18 10:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,957
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
irv Offline
irv  Offline

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,957
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by kawie_guy
I am in Utah, home of the most extensive trail systems in the US. (Oh, and we also have Moab, the offroad capital of the world). Atvs are a way of life out here. I am in an atv club that has a wide variety of machines, and we ride together once a month. I personally trail ride two times per week, and average about 3000 miles per year. There isn't much that I haven't seen when it comes to atvs. I have owned a wide variety going all the way back to the first quad ever made...the 1983 Suzuki LT125.

I have owned two Yamahas, and several friends and family have had them as well. My feelings on Yamaha are that they are well made atvs. However, the Grizzly and Kodiak have historically always had too short of a wheelbase for the seat height. They feel like they are wanting to roll over. But, that has been improved on the new ones, and the Kodiak in particular is now lower and wider. If I were buying a Yamaha today, I'd definitely get the limited edition Kodiak which has the locker.

Honda. Who hasn't ridden one? They are all over out here. Their niche is reliability, gear driven, and good resale value. However, they are all severely underpowered, and the gear driven tranny is button operated on most models. I hate it. Also, the tranny will most likely total out the machine if it ever breaks out of warranty. CVTs are quicker operating, and are cheap to fix.

Polaris..easily the most broken down atv I've encountered. And some of their designs (like the ebs, adc, and battery placement, just to name a few) qualify for some of the most boneheaded engineering in mankind's history. There has not been one group ride this year in our club where there wasn't a Polaris that broke something. Several atv rental places based along our trail systems initially bought Polaris fleets. After realizing what a mistake that was from a servicing standpoint, almost all of them have replaced their Polaris fleets with another brand. Polaris' only niche as far as I can see are they have a cushy ride (if you are into that type of vague, sloshy feel), and they have cheap entry-level vehicles with good rebates. They also have lots of storage compartments, and a third headlight.

Kawasaki.... as my name implies, I am a Kawie fan. Its my current atv that I ride the most. I've got 16,000 miles on it, and I've spent less than $300 fixing things that I didn't break myself. And still, I get a smile everytime I ride it. It's the only Japanese brand to offer a vtwin. You may not need the power of a vtwin, but once you ride one, it's near impossible to go back to a single cylinder quad. In my opinion, if you want to trail ride, you've got to buy a quad that will motivate you to get out and ride it because it's FUN to ride. If you buy something that doesn't excite you, chances are you will get bored with it eventually.
Downsides to Kawie are they don't have many options anymore. You can either get a 300cc 2wd machine, or a top of the line 750cc 4wd. Their 750 is a handful for a beginner, but not near as big and heavy as a comparable Polaris or Can Am.

Can Am....
They are kind of the enigma. Some people I know love them, others curse them. If you get a good one, reliability seems good. But if you get a bad one, be prepared to use your warranty a lot.
Their niche is definitely horse power. They win the hp wars in every engine size.
I also really love their rear end suspension design. It combines the sporty feel of a solid axle with the plushness of an irs.
They also offer some great prices on their entry level 570cc base models.
Other than Kawie, Can Am is the only other brand that I find exhilarating to ride. Even their smaller engines like the 570 have some serious acceleration. I just wish they'd improve their quality control, and not charge an arm and a leg for oem parts.

There's my long winded breakdown. Whatever you do, go test ride it before you buy it. Quads are very hard to predict which one you're going to like best just by looking at stat sheets. You really need to feel it in the flesh.


Love your post!

I'm an occasional rider that started on a Yamaha 225DX trike, upgraded to a mid-80's Suzuki 2WD 250 sport quad and now own a Can-Am. The group I ride in used to be incredibly diverse. We had a Blaster, a Suzuki 450 sport, Grizzly, Polaris, Honda 250 (slower than paint drying) and the odd dirt bike. We'd go out in the trails and when you hit a straight the dirt bikes would take off and the quads would all kinda of [censored] around except for the Blaster, which would tear after the bikes.

Then one of the guys bought a Renegade. That was a game changer. Then another guy bought a Renegade. So then you had these two ridiculously fast and comfortable quads that would just walk everything else. My buddy with the 250 Honda was tired of riding a lumber wagon that couldn't catch the slowest quad in the group and so the year before last he upgraded to a Can-Am Outlander Max 850, the guy with the Grizzly bought an Outlander 650 and I bought my Outlander Max 1000R a few months after my buddy got his 850 because it was in stock and the price difference was negligible (was originally going to get an 850).

The folks with the Renegades seem to have gone through the teething issues (belts, water getting into the CVT..etc) as the more recent ones seem to be more problem-free. Will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens as the miles rack up, but the Outlanders have all been excellent so far.

I'm guessing our scenery is a bit different from yours though, LOL




Do the Renegades still have/use Visco-lock? That is the one thing that deterred me from getting one back in 05, there seemed to be too many issues concerning them like they would only engage if one could get the other wheel to spin. Not a great feature on a ATV, imo.

Glad to hear they have improved other things. I also remember them being quite pricey back then as well.

I purchased an 05 Yamaha Grizzly and although it didn't get a lot of miles on it before I sold it due to lack of use and everything else associated with that, it served me well and never caused me any grieve.

HPIM0130 (Large).JPGImage012_13 (Medium).jpgImage015_16 (Medium).jpgImage013_14 (Medium).jpg

2017 Chevy Impala 3.6 L.
2013 Ram 5.7 L Hemi Bighorn QC 4x4
2008 Chevy Malibu 2.4 L Ecotec
Pennzoil Platinum and/or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum in all 3.
Re: New ATVs? [Re: irv] #4859798
09/04/18 05:47 PM
09/04/18 05:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,167
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,167
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by irv

Do the Renegades still have/use Visco-lock? That is the one thing that deterred me from getting one back in 05, there seemed to be too many issues concerning them like they would only engage if one could get the other wheel to spin. Not a great feature on a ATV, imo.

Glad to hear they have improved other things. I also remember them being quite pricey back then as well.

I purchased an 05 Yamaha Grizzly and although it didn't get a lot of miles on it before I sold it due to lack of use and everything else associated with that, it served me well and never caused me any grieve.



Yes, they still use the Visco-Lok auto-locking front diffs, which the Outlanders share. It is surprisingly capable in my experience.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: New ATVs? [Re: OVERKILL] #4865714
09/10/18 10:35 PM
09/10/18 10:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 187
utah,usa
kawie_guy Offline
kawie_guy  Offline

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 187
utah,usa
Originally Posted by OVERKILL


I'm guessing our scenery is a bit different from yours though, LOL




Yeah, just a little....
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Last edited by kawie_guy; 09/10/18 10:37 PM.
Re: New ATVs? [Re: OVERKILL] #4865718
09/10/18 10:41 PM
09/10/18 10:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 187
utah,usa
kawie_guy Offline
kawie_guy  Offline

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 187
utah,usa
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by irv

Do the Renegades still have/use Visco-lock? That is the one thing that deterred me from getting one back in 05, there seemed to be too many issues concerning them like they would only engage if one could get the other wheel to spin. Not a great feature on a ATV, imo.

Glad to hear they have improved other things. I also remember them being quite pricey back then as well.

I purchased an 05 Yamaha Grizzly and although it didn't get a lot of miles on it before I sold it due to lack of use and everything else associated with that, it served me well and never caused me any grieve.



Yes, they still use the Visco-Lok auto-locking front diffs, which the Outlanders share. It is surprisingly capable in my experience.


The new X3's just got push button lockers this year. Hopefully, they do the same for the Outlanders next year. If not, you can put aftermarket lockers on them.

Re: New ATVs? [Re: redhat] #4866200
09/11/18 03:43 PM
09/11/18 03:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,167
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,167
Ontario, Canada
kawie_guy: great scenery! How do you find the rocks affect tire life?


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: New ATVs? [Re: OVERKILL] #4866276
09/11/18 05:07 PM
09/11/18 05:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 187
utah,usa
kawie_guy Offline
kawie_guy  Offline

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 187
utah,usa
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
kawie_guy: great scenery! How do you find the rocks affect tire life?


Thanks.
The rocks don't seem to be too bad on tire life, but the slickrock (sandstone) like in this pic below, is murder on tires. It's as rough as sandpaper. It has awesome traction though!
[Linked Image]

Re: New ATVs? [Re: redhat] #4866310
09/11/18 05:55 PM
09/11/18 05:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,601
Central NY
rsylvstr Offline
rsylvstr  Offline

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,601
Central NY

Love my 2018 Polaris Sportsman 850 XP Touring.
Only thing I recommend is go for the 1000.

Originally Posted by redhat
Thank you. The new Polaris models sure look nice. Maybe my perceived quality issues are just incorrect? Are Polaris reliable?

In looking up online reviews, many seem to sure mention the ride quality of the Polaris as being better than the other makes.

Originally Posted by redhat
Thank you. The new Polaris models sure look nice. Maybe my perceived quality issues are just incorrect? Are Polaris reliable?

In looking up online reviews, many seem to sure mention the ride quality of the Polaris as being better than the other makes.


2013 F150 SCrew Lariat 4X4 5.0 3.55
2012 Altima SL that still vibrates.
2018 Polaris Sportsman 850 SP. Polaris fluids and filter.
Re: New ATVs? [Re: kawie_guy] #4866394
09/11/18 07:40 PM
09/11/18 07:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,167
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,167
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by kawie_guy
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
kawie_guy: great scenery! How do you find the rocks affect tire life?


Thanks.
The rocks don't seem to be too bad on tire life, but the slickrock (sandstone) like in this pic below, is murder on tires. It's as rough as sandpaper. It has awesome traction though!
[Linked Image]


Beautiful shot yet again! What kind of duration are your rides?


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: New ATVs? [Re: OVERKILL] #4866446
09/11/18 08:19 PM
09/11/18 08:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 187
utah,usa
kawie_guy Offline
kawie_guy  Offline

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 187
utah,usa
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by kawie_guy
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
kawie_guy: great scenery! How do you find the rocks affect tire life?


Thanks.
The rocks don't seem to be too bad on tire life, but the slickrock (sandstone) like in this pic below, is murder on tires. It's as rough as sandpaper. It has awesome traction though!
[Linked Image]


Beautiful shot yet again! What kind of duration are your rides?


Thank you.
I would say I average 50 miles per ride. But some trails I do are better measured in hours than miles. I've spent 8 hours to go 9 miles in Moab before. On the flip side, I've done 167 miles in one day last spring. Used a full tank plus 5 extra gallons of gas.
Out here, you can ride as far as you want. We have interconnecting trail systems that allow riders to ride an atv from border to border of our state.

Re: New ATVs? [Re: redhat] #4866454
09/11/18 08:34 PM
09/11/18 08:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,167
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,167
Ontario, Canada
Sounds like ours. We sometimes do some roads and smooth paths which rack up the kilometres, but generally it's the time not the mileage. Obviously we weren't flying in those snow pics I posted. Beautiful country you have there to explore, and love the idea of an end-to-end state wide trail system, that's a fantastic resource! thumbsup


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: New ATVs? [Re: OVERKILL] #4867226
09/12/18 06:54 PM
09/12/18 06:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,957
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
irv Offline
irv  Offline

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,957
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Sounds like ours. We sometimes do some roads and smooth paths which rack up the kilometres, but generally it's the time not the mileage. Obviously we weren't flying in those snow pics I posted. Beautiful country you have there to explore, and love the idea of an end-to-end state wide trail system, that's a fantastic resource! thumbsup


Are there still numerous clubs out there, overkill? I know back when I was atving, there was talk of doing something similar with the trail system in Ontario but due to the amount of clubs and their unwillingness to join or not be the big club themselves, nothing ever came of it.

In order to succeed they needed to be more like the OFSC but it's been years since I have been involved. Is the EOTA still around? I know they were the ones who maintained the trails down near our trailer in Marmora. Also the Haliburton club comes to mind and I know there were quite a few others out there as well.


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