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Re: Fram Ultra not ok for my 2018 Impala?? [Re: carviewsonic] #4865975 09/11/18 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by carviewsonic
Do I need to get rid of the Fram Ultra's and buy oil filters from GM?

I think you would be better served by doing the opposite.

smile


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Re: Fram Ultra not ok for my 2018 Impala?? [Re: carviewsonic] #4866008 09/11/18 10:53 AM
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I think it's worth noting that the bypass valve setting on the filter is dependent on the media's strength and pressure drop across it at a given viscosity and flow. GM specs that for their own filters, for their own media


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Re: Fram Ultra not ok for my 2018 Impala?? [Re: oil_film_movies] #4866017 09/11/18 11:07 AM
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carviewsonic Offline OP
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Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by carviewsonic
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
Use the Wix XP or Napa Platinum instead smile Wix makes a high-bypass filter for your Impala. Fram will be making one soon thumbsup

I have a Napa store only a few blocks from here (work). Napa Platinum would be a good option for now. Thanks!
Poor filtering performance in those Wix XP's and the clone NAPA Platinum. Do not choose those if you want good filtering performance. The XP and Platinum oil filters get an abysmal 50% @ 20 microns score on the 4548-12 test, while their own regular Wix and NAPAGold oil filters do 95% @ 20 microns, much better. I'd get the regular Wix or NAPA Gold oil filters, and they do have the right pressure bypass threshold the Impala and many other GM engines need.

Thanks for the heads up, I didn't realize 'premium' synthetic media filters could be so different in their performance. shocked


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Re: Fram Ultra not ok for my 2018 Impala?? [Re: SnowDrifter] #4866023 09/11/18 11:13 AM
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carviewsonic Offline OP
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Originally Posted by SnowDrifter
I think it's worth noting that the bypass valve setting on the filter is dependent on the media's strength and pressure drop across it at a given viscosity and flow. GM specs that for their own filters, for their own media

I wondered about that.. I would like to know if the Fram Ultra is less restrictive than the ACDelco, and therefore doesn't need a bypass setting as high as the ACDelco. ???


'18 Impala
'05 Park Avenue
'03 Park Avenue
'07 Honda Accord
'09 VStar 1300
Re: Fram Ultra not ok for my 2018 Impala?? [Re: carviewsonic] #4866070 09/11/18 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by carviewsonic
Originally Posted by SnowDrifter
I think it's worth noting that the bypass valve setting on the filter is dependent on the media's strength and pressure drop across it at a given viscosity and flow. GM specs that for their own filters, for their own media

I wondered about that.. I would like to know if the Fram Ultra is less restrictive than the ACDelco, and therefore doesn't need a bypass setting as high as the ACDelco. ???

This is the exact reason I have not shyed away from the Oem filters on the Mazda. They issued a bulletin similar to this about by pass pressure so I have not been brave enough to go aftermarket.


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Re: Fram Ultra not ok for my 2018 Impala?? [Re: carviewsonic] #4866086 09/11/18 12:57 PM
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The Escalade in my sig doesn't like the Ultra. Slaps and ticks at startup too much for my liking. No noises at all with the tough guard. Both are close (Ultra at 99%+, TG at 99% @20um). But the Ultra has multiple synthetic layers and a screen so there must be a difference in flow that bothers my lq9. So i think the TSB should be adhered to. Better flow using an ACdelco or something with less efficiency.. Hyundai had a similar TSB a ways back. Toyota OEM fliters, honda filters, all very low efficiency, high flow. My opinion being on here for a while has changed. I no longer think having clean oil matters as much as optimal flow.


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Re: Fram Ultra not ok for my 2018 Impala?? [Re: carviewsonic] #4866110 09/11/18 01:36 PM
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901Memphis Offline
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The differential pressure in the synthetic media filters will be lower than cellulose filters so it's not that crazy for the Ultra to have a lower bypass setting and still maintain full filtering without bypass during cold start.


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Re: Fram Ultra not ok for my 2018 Impala?? [Re: carviewsonic] #4866193 09/11/18 03:33 PM
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No it is not. GM issued the TSB for a reason.


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: Fram Ultra not ok for my 2018 Impala?? [Re: 901Memphis] #4866205 09/11/18 03:51 PM
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oil_film_movies Offline
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Originally Posted by 901Memphis
The differential pressure in the synthetic media filters will be lower than cellulose filters so it's not that crazy for the Ultra to have a lower bypass setting and still maintain full filtering without bypass during cold start.
Do you have data to back that up? All I've seen is a comparison chart done years ago on various cellulose-glass fiber blended semi-synthetic media oil filters, showing there was (and there can be today) a pretty good spread between even that one type of oil filter media.[Linked Image]
I'd basically agree that the Fram Ultra, with its unique all-synthetic double layer media CAN be different on pressure drop. We don't know. MotorKing was a poster on here who could maybe tell us. Fram has been mostly mum on this whole GM-Mazda-Subaru bypass pressure valve setting issue. Its like they don't want to address it or something.

In the chart above, the "Ultraguard" I'm pretty sure is referring to an AC-Delco Ultraguard, not a Fram Ultra, so I think that used the typical blended glass-paper media like the others.

That chart does show there can (not always) be a different flow rate that pops the bypass valve.

Another factor is using an oversized oil filter, where one can physically do so. Some of us can. With an oversize one, the pressure drop should be even less, since the flow is spread out across more media area.
I'm almost concluding, without real proof I can't yet, that using an oversize Fram Ultra oil filter should equal using the lousy paper media AC-Delco oil filter, even though the Ultra has a minus 10 psi too low bypass threshold (13 vs. 23 psi). ...2018 Equinox 1.5L turbo engine, also covered by the notorious GM TSB about bypass valve settings.

Last edited by oil_film_movies; 09/11/18 03:57 PM.
Re: Fram Ultra not ok for my 2018 Impala?? [Re: LeakySeals] #4866206 09/11/18 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by LeakySeals
The Escalade in my sig doesn't like the Ultra. Slaps and ticks at startup too much for my liking. No noises at all with the tough guard. Both are close (Ultra at 99%+, TG at 99% @20um). But the Ultra has multiple synthetic layers and a screen so there must be a difference in flow that bothers my lq9. So i think the TSB should be adhered to. Better flow using an ACdelco or something with less efficiency.. Hyundai had a similar TSB a ways back. Toyota OEM fliters, honda filters, all very low efficiency, high flow. My opinion being on here for a while has changed. I no longer think having clean oil matters as much as optimal flow.


It's not the flow performance that causing the start-up noise ... it's most likely a leaking ADBV.

Re: Fram Ultra not ok for my 2018 Impala?? [Re: 901Memphis] #4866212 09/11/18 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by carviewsonic
Originally Posted by SnowDrifter
I think it's worth noting that the bypass valve setting on the filter is dependent on the media's strength and pressure drop across it at a given viscosity and flow. GM specs that for their own filters, for their own media

I wondered about that.. I would like to know if the Fram Ultra is less restrictive than the ACDelco, and therefore doesn't need a bypass setting as high as the ACDelco. ???


Originally Posted by 901Memphis
The differential pressure in the synthetic media filters will be lower than cellulose filters so it's not that crazy for the Ultra to have a lower bypass setting and still maintain full filtering without bypass during cold start.


In this linked thread, I asked Motorking if he could provide any flow vs delta-p data on the Ultra. Conclusion was it flows very well. Read from this post and beyond - LINK.



Re: Fram Ultra not ok for my 2018 Impala?? [Re: oil_film_movies] #4866219 09/11/18 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
[Linked Image]

In the chart above, the "Ultraguard" I'm pretty sure is referring to an AC-Delco Ultraguard, not a Fram Ultra, so I think that used the typical blended glass-paper media like the others.

That chart does show there can (not always) be a different flow rate that pops the bypass valve.


That graph was used by AC Delco to promote their Ultraguard, which was a wire backed full synthetic filter. I use to use them on my Z06 when they first came out.

I think the graph was generated using filters without a bypass valve, as obviously if they did have a bypass valve it would have opened up in many of those cases and the curves would have clearly shown that.



Re: Fram Ultra not ok for my 2018 Impala?? [Re: ZeeOSix] #4866232 09/11/18 04:26 PM
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carviewsonic Offline OP
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"In this linked thread, I asked Motorking if he could provide any flow vs delta-p data on the Ultra. Conclusion was it flows very well. Read from this post and beyond - LINK."

Thanks ZeeOSix


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Re: Fram Ultra not ok for my 2018 Impala?? [Re: ZeeOSix] #4866235 09/11/18 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
That graph was used by AC Delco to promote their Ultraguard, which was a wire backed full synthetic filter. I use to use them on my Z06 when they first came out.
I think the graph was generated using filters without a bypass valve, as obviously if they did have a bypass valve it would have opened up in many of those cases and the curves would have clearly shown that.
OK, so the old ACdelco Ultraguard (not the current ACdelco Ultraguard at all!) was full syn and wire backed too. Did not know that. ... I do think all the other oil filters there had some glass in them, blended to some extent with some paper fibers. 901memphis's assertion that he thinks the Fram Ultra would have a lower pressure drop may be OK.
In your "LINK"ed thread you mentioned above, you basically concluded that a Fram Ultra had a similar pressure drop to the old PureOne, and the chart I showed above had the PureOne having a low pressure drop in the group of semi-synthetic fiber oil filters (not the Ultraguard).

Re: Fram Ultra not ok for my 2018 Impala?? [Re: carviewsonic] #4866255 09/11/18 04:47 PM
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Consolidating the info as best can be estimated:
Say the current new PF64 and/or PF63E acts like the old Mobil1 oil filter in the chart. Should be a conservative estimate, since the PF64/63E oil filters are all paper, and the old M1 filter had some glass fibers blended in. With that, a PF64/63E would pop it's bypass valve at about 2.75 gpm flow (34F, 5w30 oil), and a current Ultra, being like the old PureOne, would pop it's valve at about the same 2.75 gpm.
Now add the fact that I can easily fit an oversized Fram Ultra on my '18 Equinox 1.5L turbo, the Fram Ultra would end up bettering the original PF64 the factory fit, in the area of bypass valve popping ....(not to mention filtering efficiency too, another subject).

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