ZRX1200 Mobil 1 10w40 4T Racing

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First major oil change since break-in with JE 12.5:1 stock bore pistons. Aluminum is up, the engine had 150 miles on the first oil change after the pistons (Rotella 15w40 T4) then this 4,603 mile OCI on the M1. Hope to see it come down next OCI.

My thoughts... Oil stayed in grade even in a high HP/TQ shared sump, good flash point, nice boron content, wish Mobil had more zinc/phosphorus in this particular oil, great TBN after that amount of mileage.

Changed to M1 V-Twin 20w50 for the next OCI, really like the great Z/P numbers of this oil and looks to have a good dose of boron as well based on other UOA's.



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The fact that it stayed in grade in a high hp / shared sump bike after 4600 miles says something about it's quality. It is pricey oil though.
..
 
ummmm

you do realize that in fact it is NOT in grade

68.2863 is the lowest value for 40wt (ie 12.5 cst)

regardless, a pretty good report for that many miles on new parts and being torn down
 
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Good catch on the "staying in grade", agreed 68.2863/12.5 is the min threshold. The Valvoline 10w40 ATV oil I ran 3 OCI's ago Blackstone listed "64-76" in the "values should be" column, this test on the M1 10w40 shows "65-76". The attention to detail is just plain sloppy, in addition to not being correct.

FWIW, Rotella 15w-40 T5 syn blend from 5 OCI's ago did stay in grade, albeit over a 3700 mile OCI (69.3/12.77).

Definitely, I am a penny watcher when it comes to the oil... As for cost, each time Mobil has a rebate, I pick up 5 qts of the MC specific oil at Walmart for approx $9.75 a quart, and get a $12 check from Mobil. Brings the cost down to approx $7.25 a quart, very palatable and the sump holds 3.2qts with a filter change to take the level to the top line on the sight glass. That's about $23 in oil per change for what showed to be a really good oil. Shift quality is a huge component to me, and the numbers show I am not imagining it. TBN is great, wonder how much more I could stretch the OCI before shift quality fell off? Same net price deal with the M1 20w50 VTwin in the sump now.

Will be taking Mobil up on their rebate again before it expires Oct 31st! Same deal holds for their 5 qt jugs of M1 car oil. Walmart sells them for $22.88, then a $12 rebate... way cheaper than Supertech Syn on the net cost. I don't have any problem with the Supertech oils, just making a comparison of cost.
 
Blackstone's response to the in grade/out of grade question I posed...

"Thanks for the email. When we establish our viscosity ranges, we try to take into account the multi-grade aspect of the oil as well as the fact that not all 10W/40 oils have the same viscosity. Some brands start out a little thicker or a little thinner than others. Keep in mind that if the range you found is for a straight weight oil, it's going to be thicker than our ranges for a multi-grade. Throw in the fact that not all oils are the same and that probably accounts for the differences that you're seeing in the should-be ranges."

To me that is saying the "should be" values they use are taking into consideration what they have seen for a max value of a given oil when new and adjusting the lower limit to reflect a similar lower limit/upper limit span as the standard range for a straight weight. Not going to pick nits on a point or so above or below what a straight grade should be performing like, as a 10w40 is covering a lot of bases with its viscosity span and this one did it really well, IMO.

Wonder if they are using some ester in this oil, I think that would help explain the good results in a shared sump for that many miles. Thoughts?

In any case, I do like how the M1 performed and could recommend it highly, although the numbers already told the good story of this oil. Still like the even better Z/P of the M1 20w50 V-Twin, so after the next OCI come next riding season, will post the results.
 
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Mobile 1 and Amsoil motorcycle hold grade better then most. No one sure of the reason, if it was a low price oil people would knock the oil saying sludge was building up (some actually suggest that) but these two oils are praised in NON shared sump bikes, as the viscosity actually will creep UP to being too high out of grade over time.
So that would explain why it would stay "in grade" better then most in a shared sump, the oil thickens.

BTW I agree with Sunruh that you are out of grade, for a lab to be twisting around grade levels doesnt make sense. API grade levels are there so we have a standard to measure against.
 
Followed up with another reply to Blackstone. Querying as to why they make their own "grades" when I WANT for an analysis to show me where an oil stands as an evaluation tool vs other oils, as I should not be looking up API standards after the fact.

Will post up the response.

I don't know that I have seen M1 10W40 4T show a thickening over time in an analysis, however M1 V-Twin 20W50 has shown that on at least a few analyses I have found.
 
Hmmm .. yeah, know for sure about the 20/50 getting thicker I cant say for the 10/40 either, just assumed, oops oh, just a thought, maybe that is because most (in this case) use is the 20/50 in non shared sumps and that is where you see the thickening.

Meaning we see the thickening on the 20/50 because that is the oil weight of most bikes that do not share the oil sump.
Its more rare for a non shared sump bike to use a 10/40 and even more rare to see an actual UOA from one.

Some years ago a magazine tested a bunch of oils and the AMSOIL and M1 did thicken (and they didnt know what either) which confirms almost every UOA in here on a non shared sump bike.
All I know if it was a cheap no name oil that did that, wow would it get trashed in here ! *L*
 
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The common element I see as well is thickening in non-shared sump big V twins. Yes, look forward to the UOA next year on the M1 20w50 V Twin in my 4 cyl ZRX1200 with a shared sump.

Interesting that Valvoline 20w50 Syn MC oil thickened as well in these links, but HD Syn3 20w50 did not go out of limits.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...alv-syn-20-50-motorcycle-oil#Post4640080

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...mited-103-c-i-blackstone-lab#Post4612695

In this link, M1 15w50 did not go over grade, but barely under the upper limit in a non shared sump (as defined by Blackstone) but the same oil in my analysis at the start of this thread (farthest column to the right) did go down a lot.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-hd-107-has-high-copper-wear#Post4458113

Once again, different "Values should be" from Blackstone for a "50" wt, but the relative comparison is valid, IMO.
 
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I'm a bit skeptical about the reasoning for their 'should be' viscosities, so I prefer to ignore that and simply compare the 'before' (virgin) and 'after' 100C viscosities of the oil in question.

Mobil says virgin 10W-40 4T Racing is 13.0 cst at 100C. Your UOA says it's now 11.96 cst, after 4K miles. That's very good for a multigrade oil in a shared sump motorcycle engine. So we know the 4T works well in this bike.
 
Thanks Jeff78 for that info.

Did some checking of manufacturers virgin oil: Valvoline 10w40 ATV; 15.0 cSt. 10w40 4 Stroke motorcycle oil; 15.2. Rotella T5 15w40: 14.5. Castrol 10w40 4T, 13.3.

13.0 for Mobil 1 4T Racing is lower than most, but it holds that really well as you pointed out.
 
Originally Posted by Bonz
The common element I see as well is thickening in non-shared sump big V twins. Yes, look forward to the UOA next year on the M1 20w50 V Twin in my 4 cyl ZRX1200 with a shared sump.

Interesting that Valvoline 20w50 Syn MC oil thickened as well in these links, but HD Syn3 20w50 did not go out of limits.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...alv-syn-20-50-motorcycle-oil#Post4640080

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...mited-103-c-i-blackstone-lab#Post4612695

In this link, M1 15w50 did not go over grade, but barely under the upper limit in a non shared sump (as defined by Blackstone) but the same oil in my analysis at the start of this thread (farthest column to the right) did go down a lot.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-hd-107-has-high-copper-wear#Post4458113

Once again, different "Values should be" from Blackstone for a "50" wt, but the relative comparison is valid, IMO.





Nice catch on the Valvoline thickening too. I am a fan of Valvoline Motorcycle oils and if my bike required a motorcycle oil it would be my go to oil.

The M1 15/50 being an API rated automotive oil (and an obsolete CF diesel rating might still be listed on the bottle) might explain it not thickening but is still out of spec for Harley as well as M1, Amsoil, Red Line motorcycle oils are out of spec for Harley.

With all the above said, most do not know, including the people using the oil (Mobile1 Amsoil, Valvoline, Red Line motorcycle oils) in those links is, none of those oils are in spec as to what Harley Davidson requires in their touring bikes (possibly all the others too).

The HD oil also may explain it not thickening due to it being formulated more like an HDEO.

HD requires you use their oil or HDEO diesel rated oil of CH4+ or higher (if their oil not available) they go one to state switch back to HD oil once available but whatever.
Whether it matters who knows.
I do use a 15/50 HDEO in my Road King, no thickening.

Amsoil does make a HDEO diesel oil in the 20/50 weight that would meet Harley specs but for some reason no one uses it, they go for the motorcycle specific oil that doesnt meet the spec.
Amsoil lists it as 20/50diesel oil and mentions also for motorcycles I assume because they know Harley requires a diesel oil but every UOA I see the owners use the standard non diesel motorcycle oil.

I honestly believe these motorcycle oils are formulated to thicken up in order to hold viscosity and shift quality in shared sump bikes and not formulated for non shared bikes such as Harley.
They do not meet Harley specs of a HDEO Diesel oil.
 
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Really like your thinking... "I honestly believe these motorcycle oils are formulated to thicken up in order to hold viscosity and shift quality in shared sump bikes and not formulated for non shared bikes such as Harley.
They do not meet Harley specs of a HDEO Diesel oil."

Only fly on that is the Valvolne ATV 10w40 I ran was down on viscosity after 1400 miles or so. Meaning I am not sure how it would have thickened in any non-shared sump engine. Then again, it's an "ATV" oil and not an oil marketed for "Big Twin use. The other element is Mobil markets their 20w50 specifically for Big VTwins, and I have always thought of Harley's when I think of those. BUT, plenty of shared sump V Twins out there. Anyone seen a UOA with M1 20w50 for a bike other than a "Big Twin"?
 
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you can NEVER compare sharedsump vs nonsharedsump reports.

m1 10w40racing is a low drag 40wt. its barely in the 40wt range to be able to call it a 40wt.
yes it held up really well, but it still didnt stay in grade. had it started at 13.5cst it might have

if you like the price and feel of m1 10w40racing...use it. very nice report
 
As I understand it, thickening is caused by oxidation and accumulation of contaminants and is not desirable. The extreme of this (resulting from neglect) is sludge. A bit of thickening won't kill your engine, but a substantial viscosity increase means it's time to change the oil.

I'd guess that thickening is more common with non shared sump big Twins because these engines tend to be air cooled (correct me if I'm wrong) and thus run hotter. The greater heat causes more oxidation, and not having a transmission means little or no shear to knock the viscosity down some.
 
All these posts have made this into a good informative thread. Good point... that it is labeled a "racing" oil, the low cst to begin with makes sense. My thought has always been it was a marketing ploy, but seems to have merit.

Curiosity has the better of me, I did fill the crankcase with M1 20w50 V twin for the next OCI as mentioned earlier. Will report back...

Thumbs up on the report as well, one of the best ones I have had, if not the best one considering the miles the oil was in the bike. And really strong TBN.
 
I am curious, I just noticed your last UOA was Mystik 15/50 and I am curious of your impressions in a shared sump bike.
It seems to have done just as well and better then the Mobile 1, as well then the others in your report when looking at the mileage of the oils, if taking into account the viscosity Mystik held it. Mystik is a semi and Mobile a full syn.

As you must well know Mystik is the only oil I use in my Road King I normally am not a "brand" type of guy but its not a shared sump bike as most in here and only HDEO oil available with a 50.
Just curious of your impression, even among shared sump bikes different makes will behave differently with the same oil types.
 
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I agree, the M1 looks to have performed very well.

In past UOA results this M1 oil had significantly more ZDDP. Possibly they reduced it for cat equipped bikes. I think 1200 PPM is still considered the ideal level for ZDDP.
 
Late 2016/early 2017, Mobil showed 10w40 4T as 1750/1650 zn/phos ppm, March-ish 2017 new data sheet showed the new lower 1200/1100 zn/phos. I am sure it was for cat compatibility. I bought the oil in March 2017, wasn't sure which one I got, UOA showed it was the newer version. The main reason despite the good UOA, I am giving the M1 20w50 VTwin a go this time for the higher zn/phos. ZRX and ZZR 1200 cams historically have cam pitting issues (ZZR 1200 cams are a bolt-in straight across performamce upgrade many guys do) due to metallurgy issues at manufacture. It is debated whether the zn/phos content of the oil makes a difference in reducing this problem. When I checked the cams at 2750 miles with the 10w40 4T in the bike, pictures I took of the cams before install showed no additional pitting when compared. So, the 4T seemed to be doing fine. Still, the higher zn/phos is of interest to me and a 20w50 helps with hot oil pressure in an engine known to have a low hot oil pressure as documented many times by owners.
 
Yeah, cam pitting is typically a manufacturing issue (inadequate hardening), and can be exacerbated by lubrication system design (inadequate flow to the top end, although these days it's rare - I'm primarily thinking of the early Honda V4 oiling issues).

Red Line motorcycle oils have over 2000 ppm Zn/P, if that's what you're after.
 
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