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Lower zddp levels #4863078
09/08/18 04:09 AM
09/08/18 04:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 925
Nebraska
Duffyjr Online content OP
Duffyjr  Online Content OP

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 925
Nebraska
I noticed in a couple posts in the VOA section that QSUD and Magnatec 5w30 were on the low end for Zink and Phosphorus. Is this going to be a trend with the SN+ oils and is this going to be a problem for older flat tappet engines?

I gut feeling is to stay away from them in my truck.


89 GMC Sierra VR1 10w30/1036 Gold
08 Lucerne CX Advanced 5w30/1040 Gold
02 DeVille VWB 5w30/CQ Blue
18 Toro Super Recycler T5 10w30
Re: Lower zddp levels [Re: Duffyjr] #4863091
09/08/18 05:35 AM
09/08/18 05:35 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 11,504
ROCHESTER, NY
Char Baby Offline
Char Baby  Offline

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 11,504
ROCHESTER, NY
What do you mean by lower Z & P levels?
Lower than 700-800 ppm?


"Retired"
-----------------------------------

'80 Firebird FORMULA V8/4bbl-purchased "NEW"
'15 Nissan Altima 2.5 SV
'15 Honda Civic 1.8 LX
Re: Lower zddp levels [Re: Duffyjr] #4863106
09/08/18 06:26 AM
09/08/18 06:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 9,124
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 9,124
Waco, TX
Doesn't your '89 GMC Sierra use a roller cam?


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Lower zddp levels [Re: Char Baby] #4863108
09/08/18 06:31 AM
09/08/18 06:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 922
ZFW
JustN89 Offline
JustN89  Offline

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 922
ZFW
Originally Posted by Char Baby
What do you mean by lower Z & P levels?
Lower than 700-800 ppm?

Yes, QSUD is at ~650ppm P and ~550ppm Z.

Re: Lower zddp levels [Re: Duffyjr] #4863119
09/08/18 06:57 AM
09/08/18 06:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 4,629
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Offline
Snagglefoot  Offline

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 4,629
SE British Columbia, Canada
There is a QSUD 5w30 UOA from Aug 7 that indicates 782 PPM zinc. Maybe just variance with testing? Probably need a few more samples to establish the truth before we ban an oil.

Last edited by Snagglefoot; 09/08/18 07:04 AM.

If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: Lower zddp levels [Re: Duffyjr] #4863180
09/08/18 08:17 AM
09/08/18 08:17 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 22,029
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 22,029
MA, Mittelfranken.de
May be that why some oils have "For Newer Cars" on the label? Nothing I am interested in at this point and probably never as once the Pontiac's are gone there probably wont be another modern American car in my future only Euro, old 60's American or an old Land Cruiser or Supra.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Lower zddp levels [Re: Linctex] #4863218
09/08/18 08:56 AM
09/08/18 08:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 19,201
Apple Valley, California
Chris142 Offline
Chris142  Offline

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 19,201
Apple Valley, California
Originally Posted by Linctex
Doesn't your '89 GMC Sierra use a roller cam?

Most didnt


02 Wrangler traveler sae30
87 F250 Valvoline 15w40
07 fjcruiser Chevron 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor Chevron sae30
Re: Lower zddp levels [Re: Chris142] #4863247
09/08/18 09:18 AM
09/08/18 09:18 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,406
Georgia
AVB Offline
AVB  Offline

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,406
Georgia
Originally Posted by Chris142
Originally Posted by Linctex
Doesn't your '89 GMC Sierra use a roller cam?

Most didnt

I thought all of the old TBI truck motors were flat tappets.

Re: Lower zddp levels [Re: AVB] #4863429
09/08/18 01:29 PM
09/08/18 01:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 19,201
Apple Valley, California
Chris142 Offline
Chris142  Offline

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 19,201
Apple Valley, California
Originally Posted by AVB
Originally Posted by Chris142
Originally Posted by Linctex
Doesn't your '89 GMC Sierra use a roller cam?

Most didnt

I thought all of the old TBI truck motors were flat tappets.

I don't know the exact specs but it seems that cars got the rollers and trucks got flat tappits. Although I have seen cars with flat tappets and trucks with roller cams.


02 Wrangler traveler sae30
87 F250 Valvoline 15w40
07 fjcruiser Chevron 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor Chevron sae30
Re: Lower zddp levels [Re: Duffyjr] #4863436
09/08/18 01:37 PM
09/08/18 01:37 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 971
South Carolina
ka9mnx Offline
ka9mnx  Offline

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 971
South Carolina
No it will not be a problem for old flat tappet enines. Not unless the original flat tappet engine has been modified with a high lift cam and higher spring rates.


2005 Ranger 3.0 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Motorcraft
2000 4Runner 3.4 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Toyota
1997 B2500 Van 3.9 - M1 HM 10w-30/Mopar
1993 F150 4.9 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Motorcraft
Re: Lower zddp levels [Re: Snagglefoot] #4863485
09/08/18 02:35 PM
09/08/18 02:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 922
ZFW
JustN89 Offline
JustN89  Offline

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 922
ZFW
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
There is a QSUD 5w30 UOA from Aug 7 that indicates 782 PPM zinc. Maybe just variance with testing? Probably need a few more samples to establish the truth before we ban an oil.

That UOA looks quite different from the VOA posted of the dexos 1 gen 2 QSUD. The UOA shows a negligible amount of boron, while showing nearly 50% more calcium compared to the VOA.

Considering the difference in boron, calcium, zinc and phosphorous, I'd say that the it's quite likely that the d1g2 QSUD was not used in that UOA.

Re: Lower zddp levels [Re: Char Baby] #4863881
09/08/18 10:57 PM
09/08/18 10:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 925
Nebraska
Duffyjr Online content OP
Duffyjr  Online Content OP

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 925
Nebraska
Originally Posted by Char Baby
What do you mean by lower Z & P levels?
Lower than 700-800 ppm?


Magnatec D1G2, 5w30 VOA from from 6/18/18, not as bad as the QSUD VOA which was dated almost a year ago that JustN89 posted.
Zink 695
Phos 672

Compared to: (just a couple I was looking at)

Valvoline Modern Engine full syn from website
Zink 850
Phos 800

Valvoline Daily Protection & Advanced full syn 5w30 from website
Zink 830
Phos 760

My engine is a flat tappet and just don't think I want to go any lower. Was just lookong around trying to pick a good 5w30 for winter for my truck, I think the Daily Protection will work.


89 GMC Sierra VR1 10w30/1036 Gold
08 Lucerne CX Advanced 5w30/1040 Gold
02 DeVille VWB 5w30/CQ Blue
18 Toro Super Recycler T5 10w30
Re: Lower zddp levels [Re: ka9mnx] #4863939
09/09/18 01:23 AM
09/09/18 01:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,087
Balearic Islands , Spain
FordCapriDriver Offline
FordCapriDriver  Offline

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,087
Balearic Islands , Spain
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
No it will not be a problem for old flat tappet enines. Not unless the original flat tappet engine has been modified with a high lift cam and higher spring rates.

That is not true, it can still cause excessive wear even on standard well worn in cams, i know a guy who has a Triumph TR4 who was using Valvoline Vr1 20w50 in it for a long time, thought it wa sa bit expensive so swicthed to Castrol GTX 20w50, about a year later the engine all of the sudden starts to have a dead miss and is misfiring and running very rough.

He takes the engine out to look at it and he takes the cam and lifters out, sure enough 3 or 4 lobes were flat...

He had run the engine for over 10 years on Vr1 prior to that.

Last edited by FordCapriDriver; 09/09/18 01:30 AM.

1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50 w/ 20% Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.
1988 Ford Escort XR3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40
G40 Si-OAT coolant in both


Re: Lower zddp levels [Re: Duffyjr] #4863940
09/09/18 01:24 AM
09/09/18 01:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,087
Balearic Islands , Spain
FordCapriDriver Offline
FordCapriDriver  Offline

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,087
Balearic Islands , Spain
What are you sing now Rotella T5 10W-30? stick with that.


1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50 w/ 20% Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.
1988 Ford Escort XR3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40
G40 Si-OAT coolant in both


Re: Lower zddp levels [Re: FordCapriDriver] #4863963
09/09/18 05:05 AM
09/09/18 05:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 925
Nebraska
Duffyjr Online content OP
Duffyjr  Online Content OP

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 925
Nebraska
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
What are you sing now Rotella T5 10W-30? stick with that.


Before last winter I would agree with this and in the past I've always run 10w30 in the winter but after last year I'm not so sure. We had a lot more days below 0 than usual and several days in the negative teens and a couple -25 days. My thought was to run the 5w30 from December to March and then I have some VR1 10w30 in my stash for next summer.

Is the T5 10w30 not considered a thicker oil?


89 GMC Sierra VR1 10w30/1036 Gold
08 Lucerne CX Advanced 5w30/1040 Gold
02 DeVille VWB 5w30/CQ Blue
18 Toro Super Recycler T5 10w30
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