The Cadillac problems have begun...

[14Accent]

Ugh. I knew it was too good to be true.

Ok, that may be a bit dramatic. I've had a few days since the repairs to put some miles on the car, knowing that it's been sitting and I want to discover ALL the bugs that I can before it gets cold. I would much rather be stranded in 75 degree weather vs. 10 degrees.

Driving to lunch today, I felt a strong hiccup once while cruising and several more times when accelerating from a stop. The idle was perfect, and everything else felt fine. I did get a CEL about 2/3 of the way to the food spot... GREAT!!! Ugh.

Anyways, I got back to the shop and pulled the code: P1372 - Crankshaft position sensor A-B correlation. Whew, at least it's minor. N* engines are known for munching crankshaft position sensors, much like Nissan VQ35's. They're mounted low in the block and very close to the front exhaust manifold. Not exactly the most fun thing to replace, since the front engine mount is right in front of them, the exhaust manifold is above and around them, and the oil filter adapter/oil pressure sensor are down and to the left. As luck would have it, the front engine mount needs to be replaced anyways but I was ignoring it because it's a bear to replace. I suppose this gives me a reason to add one to the order, since I have to remove it anyways.

One thing can be said: GM really did build a lot of redundancy into the Northstar. It's got 2 crankshaft position sensors specifically for this reason, if one starts to fail it's smart enough to use the other as a reference in the time being. Unfortunately for GM, when you put both sensors right next to each other there's a good chance they'll both fail at relatively the same time!

 

[92saturnsl2]

That is a nice feature. Plus IIRC, N* engines can run without coolant in a limp home mode for an extended period of time. I saw one at the junkyard once that appeared to have a water cooled alternator or something of the sort. Cutting edge tech in the late 90's!

My mom's 4.7L Durango had to be towed to the shop because of a failed CPS recently. Would have been nice to have a backup!

 

[StevieC]

If domestic automakers would just spend a little more on quality sensors. A luxury brand shouldn't be having these kind of failures for the life of the vehicle. 02 sensors are one thing because of the extreme heat but not a crank or cam sensor. I have never replaced one in any of my vehicles and I drive a ton of miles.

 

[daves87rs]

Hoping the rest of the stuff is minor.....

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted by StevieC
If domestic automakers would just spend a little more on quality sensors. A luxury brand shouldn't be having these kind of failures for the life of the vehicle. 02 sensors are one thing because of the extreme heat but not a crank or cam sensor. I have never replaced one in any of my vehicles and I drive a ton of miles.


"Amen"

 

[StevieC]

That goes for my Dodge as well. It ate sensors in the 100,000km I drove it before it was totaled.

 

[NO2]

A 15 year old car is not going to be all that reliable, unless it a already reliable brand like Toyota or Honda that has been meticulously maintained. Every vehicle I've owned that made it to 15 was uneconomical to repair or was unreliable, excepting an Accord and a Camry.

 

[92saturnsl2]

I'd rather drive an 'unreliable' car with character than an unexciting turd that lasts forever and needs no work. Different strokes for different folks...

FWIW, I typically keep vehicles till past the 15 year mark and none have given me heaps of trouble regardless of make. I do tend to fix things before they become real problems though (except those times the wife says "yeah it's been making that noise for awhile"). I've had vehicles at 50k give me more trouble than some I've owned at 200k.

 

[hpb]

Originally Posted by 92saturnsl2
I'd rather drive an 'unreliable' car with character than an unexciting turd that lasts forever and needs no work.


Each to their own, but I am the complete opposite to you on that one!

 

[SeaJay]

Originally Posted by hpb
Originally Posted by 92saturnsl2
I'd rather drive an 'unreliable' car with character than an unexciting turd that lasts forever and needs no work.


Each to their own, but I am the complete opposite to you on that one!


Me too, I want a car that all I have to do is put in fuel, change the oil, brakes, tires and add windshield washer fluid. To me the car that needs anything else is an unexciting turd.

 

[bugeye]

Well, it all depends what you want and are willing to deal with. Our '04 Volvo has had many repairs and lots of maintenance. At 150,000 miles only two failures where I would not allow my son to drive 4+ hours to school and not return for months. Had a broken front spring and a random intermittent electronic module failure. He needs a wagon; doesn't want an suv, but needs AWD due to winter snow. I plan to stay ahead of the worn out bits until the chassis rots away. Note: almost no rust after 15 years in Pa.

 

[LazyDog]

Originally Posted by bugeye
Well, it all depends what you want and are willing to deal with. Our '04 Volvo has had many repairs and lots of maintenance. At 150,000 miles only two failures where I would not allow my son to drive 4+ hours to school and not return for months. Had a broken front spring and a random intermittent electronic module failure. He needs a wagon; doesn't want an suv, but needs AWD due to winter snow. I plan to stay ahead of the worn out bits until the chassis rots away. Note: almost no rust after 15 years in Pa.


You know that 99-2003 or 04 Volvo's are not that great in many ways. The 2005 are much better.

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted by 92saturnsl2
I'd rather drive an 'unreliable' car with character than an unexciting turd that lasts forever and needs no work. Different strokes for different folks...

Says the guy with 4 unexciting turds in his signature?

 

[brages]

Originally Posted by Nick1994
Originally Posted by 92saturnsl2
I'd rather drive an 'unreliable' car with character than an unexciting turd that lasts forever and needs no work. Different strokes for different folks...

Says the guy with 4 unexciting turds in his signature?


Don't knock the 4th gen Maxima; it was pretty hot stuff when it came out... rest of the list seems a bit uninspiring to me though. OTOH, the 98 Maxima I had was just about the most problem-free car I ever owned, so maybe it does belong in the dull category...

 

[ls1mike]

Really? I have a 16 year old truck that I tow a 32 foot trailer with and 18 year old WS6 that will destroy both of those.

That is a really big generalization. Really depends on the person and the car. I owned a 1996 Accord. You couldn't give me another one.

 

[92saturnsl2]

Originally Posted by Nick1994
Says the guy with 4 unexciting turds in his signature?


Ask four people what character in a vehicle means to them and you'll get four very different answers! Certainly my wife has a different thought on the subject than I do, so I can't take credit for all four vehicle choices

 

[14Accent]

Haha... boys boys! This got a little out there, I don't mind a little back and forth but let's be nice.

Everyone has a choice in vehicles, like in life. Some people take the Toyota Camry route. Some people take the 2003 Cadillac Seville beast route. I've had Camry's and Cavalier's and ALL KINDS of boring unexciting cars:

'94 Escort
'85 Fiero 2M4
'89 F150
'93 Caprice
'95 Millenia
'92 Camry
'99 Corolla

The list is HUGE! I just like fun, different cars that most people wouldn't look twice at.

Side note: I just ran to the store in the Caddy and GOD do I like that car. I don't really know why, though. Maybe it's the fact that it greets me when I fire it up, and my steering wheel and seat and the like move me gently into driving position. Maybe it's the fact that it has a rather large touchscreen radio as a stock piece, which is so cool for 2003. Maybe it's the small exhaust leak in the resonator that gives it just a bit of a V8 burble.

All I know is I can't wait to throw the crank sensors in it and put some more miles on it!

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by StevieC
If domestic automakers would just spend a little more on quality sensors. A luxury brand shouldn't be having these kind of failures for the life of the vehicle. 02 sensors are one thing because of the extreme heat but not a crank or cam sensor. I have never replaced one in any of my vehicles and I drive a ton of miles.



That's quite the generalization!

In the past.......Asian brands have used simple Analog 2-wire A/C Sine Wave producing CKP & CMP sensors just about exclusively, This type of sensor has NO electronics to fail & are for the most part VERY reliable.

In the case of a Northstar.......The CKP is a Digital 3-wire DC Square Wave producing Sensor that is powered & grounded for the built-in electronics. Most all Domestic engineered GM engines use this style along with most Chrysler designs.
Ford used mostly Analog CKP sensors 'til the Ecoboost came out.

Electronics do not like heat, This alone will cause Digital sensors to fail more often than Analog sensors.

With advanced engine management needed to control Direct Injection &/or Atkinson Cycle-Valve Timing.......Digital CKP & CMP sensors have become a necessity for resolution/accuracy that Analog signal generators CANNOT achieve!

Ironically........Toyota had some issues with the implementation of this "New to them" technology that resulted in a CKP Sensor Safety Recall on some early 2GR-FKS engines.
IF this turns into a pattern failure-100,000 mile sensor like the FWD "Dual Sensor" Northstar's.......Will you or any other Toyota fanboy call these Denso sensors cheap junk? What if they randomly fail like most other Digital CKP sensors??

Why can't Toyota owners be more pragmatic when it comes to other brands......GM/Chrysler/Bosch were Innovators to use this technology 30+ years ago!

 

[92saturnsl2]

Originally Posted by ls1mike
Really? I have a 16 year old truck that I tow a 32 foot trailer with and 18 year old WS6 that will destroy both of those.


What exactly are you destroying?

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by StevieC
If domestic automakers would just spend a little more on quality sensors. A luxury brand shouldn't be having these kind of failures for the life of the vehicle. 02 sensors are one thing because of the extreme heat but not a crank or cam sensor. I have never replaced one in any of my vehicles and I drive a ton of miles.



That's quite the generalization!

In the past.......Asian brands have used simple Analog 2-wire A/C Sine Wave producing CKP & CMP sensors just about exclusively, This type of sensor has NO electronics to fail & are for the most part VERY reliable.

In the case of a Northstar.......The CKP is a Digital 3-wire DC Square Wave producing Sensor that is powered & grounded for the built-in electronics. Most all Domestic engineered GM engines use this style along with most Chrysler designs.
Ford used mostly Analog CKP sensors 'til the Ecoboost came out.

Electronics do not like heat, This alone will cause Digital sensors to fail more often than Analog sensors.

With advanced engine management needed to control Direct Injection &/or Atkinson Cycle-Valve Timing.......Digital CKP & CMP sensors have become a necessity for resolution/accuracy that Analog signal generators CANNOT achieve!

Ironically........Toyota had some issues with the implementation of this "New to them" technology that resulted in a CKP Sensor Safety Recall on some early 2GR-FKS engines.
IF this turns into a pattern failure-100,000 mile sensor like the FWD "Dual Sensor" Northstar's.......Will you or any other Toyota fanboy call these Denso sensors cheap junk? What if they randomly fail like most other Digital CKP sensors??

Why can't Toyota owners be more pragmatic when it comes to other brands......GM/Chrysler/Bosch were Innovators to use this technology 30+ years ago!


First of all it's my first Toyota, so I'm no fan boy. I bought car because it fit my needs and they have a reasonably good reputation. I never liked Chrysler and bought the Journey because I thought it might be 1/2 decent like the Caravans. Boy was I mistaken. Secondly when you have fixed a ton of vehicles like I have along with my dad you will notice that certain problems appear over and over again and the "Domestics" need to get their quality control fixed on the sensor end. Not so much Ford but GM is at the top of that list and then Chrysler. I never said that Japanese or Koreans or whoever for that matter was exempt. Toyota has certainly had lots of recalls, so has Hyundai/Kia or "Insert Manufacturer here".

But when there is a pattern of occurrence over and over you can't help but generalize. Furthermore this is GM we are talking about. One of the worst automakers for long-term quality proven by decades of garbage that they put out and constant problems. I could go on for hours about their failures from electrical, to gaskets, to piston rings, to timing chains, to oil leaks and consumption. Sure they had some good models but for the most part they are concerned about profits and not about longevity and will do whatever they can to maximize this at the expense of their customer. PERIOD.
I owned a Pontiac 6000 and it was one of the best cars I ever owned with the Quad 4 engine. I got a 100K out of it and paid $200 for the car and put $0 into it other than a battery. I would also buy a 4.3 Litre Jimmy, Astro or Safari or a Chevy express from the 80's, They were good solid vehicles for the most part just to name a few. PITA to work on maybe but otherwise ok. Just to show you I'm not biased against every vehicle.