Hot take: Modern cars are BORING

[Andrew1972]

Everybody has a different version of exciting. Some consumers buy driving machines with absolute boring sedated looks(BMW, Subaru WRX, Hot hatches all) while other people just care about looks and could care less about driving experience and noise/roughness that comes with it.

I personally prefer comfort at this point in life with ample power and decent enough looks.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I find my Jeep quite fun

Perhaps that's why they make more than one kind of vehicle.


Every person I know who has been to an SRT Track Experience and driven all the SRT vehicles agrees there is some excitement there. People without one tend to be rather critical...

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
Every person I know who has been to an SRT Track Experience and driven all the SRT vehicles agrees there is some excitement there.

Anything with power is going to offer "some excitement" on a track, no?

If we're talking about street driving, it's more complicated and there are more tradeoffs involved. It ain't easy to make a car that's engaging and rewarding at low speeds with hazards and responsibilities all around.

 

[MCompact]

My two favorite cars are at opposite ends of the technology/speed spectrum; my 150 hp Club Sport is dead slow, running the quarter in @16 seconds. However, it is relatively light, very nimble, and it lets you know everything that is going on at the contact passage. I learned a lot about track driving in the Club Sport, as you have to conserve momentum everywhere; one mistake and you'll pay for it for another lap or two. You also have to keep the engine above 4000 rpm to make usable power.

In contrast, my 2 Series can run the quarter in an acceptably quick 13 seconds and the turbo inline six makes maximum torque from 1400-4500 rpm. It's just as much fun, but in a totally different way(for one thing, I no longer have to give 10 point-bys every lap like I had to in the Club Sport). Putting the car in Sport+ mode allows you quite a bit of latitude before the DSC kicks in, and you can disable it altogether if you choose. I especially like the ability to be able to transform the car from laid-back cruiser to track toy with the push of a button.

I've owned the Club Sport since new and intend to leave it to my son to enjoy. I probably won't keep the 2er that long, but right now the only new cars I'd consider to replace it are the M2/M2C and the Giulia Quadrifoglio.

 

[NGRhodes]

I learnt to drive to ABS was rare on basic cars and the small ones were still all non-power assisted. They were more fun and you have to learn better driver skills (cadence braking, modulating brake power to avoid obstacles).
What I consider fun then is considered unsafe nowadays.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by fdcg27
Putting 500 bhp in a fleet sedan merely makes for a fast version of a fleet sedan. It does not make of it a really entertaining car.
FYI, in case of the Charger, it's not just an engine... suspension, brakes, exhaust, trans programming are all different, which does add to the entertainment factor.



All standard sedan into supercar stuff going back to the original fast fleet sedan GTO and nothing that a fleet special sedan owner couldn't do in his own garage at much lower cost.
The result is something that still drives like an overweight machine as quickly as it might do so.

 

[DBMaster]

Here is my one comment. Driving ANY car in modern traffic with modern drivers is, at best, boring. Most often, it is just maddeningly frustrating.

 

[KrisZ]

For some people a V6 Camry is the epitome of exciting, for some it's a hybrid squeezing the best mpg possible, for some it's the quickest quarter mile, for some it's the corner carving ability and we can go on and on. It's because we're all so diverse in our interests that we have all sorts of great choices in the market.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted by MCompact
My two favorite cars are at opposite ends of the technology/speed spectrum; my 150 hp Club Sport is dead slow, running the quarter in @16 seconds. However, it is relatively light, very nimble, and it lets you know everything that is going on at the contact passage. I learned a lot about track driving in the Club Sport, as you have to conserve momentum everywhere; one mistake and you'll pay for it for another lap or two. You also have to keep the engine above 4000 rpm to make usable power.

In contrast, my 2 Series can run the quarter in an acceptably quick 13 seconds and the turbo inline six makes maximum torque from 1400-4500 rpm. It's just as much fun, but in a totally different way(for one thing, I no longer have to give 10 point-bys every lap like I had to in the Club Sport). Putting the car in Sport+ mode allows you quite a bit of latitude before the DSC kicks in, and you can disable it altogether if you choose. I especially like the ability to be able to transform the car from laid-back cruiser to track toy with the push of a button.

I've owned the Club Sport since new and intend to leave it to my son to enjoy. I probably won't keep the 2er that long, but right now the only new cars I'd consider to replace it are the M2/M2C and the Giulia Quadrifoglio.

So which do you enjoy more to drive briskly on the street?
This last weekend my SIL got married they had a fun autocross event at their wedding reception. Anyways there was a huge range of cars and driver experience, and it was interesting how a 1997 Miata only modded with suspension to handle Hoosier slicks, was the most exciting/terrifying vehicle out there to anyone who went on a ride along. There was a 550hp 2200lb M3 hill climb special and a 2016 Z06 on RE-71's which were faster of course, but were too hard to drive at 11/10 to make you cringe at 60-70-80 mph on slalom sections.
Also people were blown away how hard on a 1992 Civic could turn with good suspension and tires.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted by fdcg27
All standard sedan into supercar stuff going back to the original fast fleet sedan GTO and nothing that a fleet special sedan owner couldn't do in his own garage at much lower cost.
Yeah, I'm sure anyone can just install adaptive damping suspension or pop in a V8 engine, an upgraded transmission, and all associated hardware and software in their own garage with one hand while sipping Old Milwaukee.

Quote
The result is something that still drives like an overweight machine as quickly as it might do so.
It is heavy, no doubt. But if you want a new 4-door family sedan that's still reasonably entertaining to drive without breaking a bank on initial purchase price and on on-going maintenance and repairs, what else is there?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by fdcg27
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by fdcg27
Putting 500 bhp in a fleet sedan merely makes for a fast version of a fleet sedan. It does not make of it a really entertaining car.
FYI, in case of the Charger, it's not just an engine... suspension, brakes, exhaust, trans programming are all different, which does add to the entertainment factor.



All standard sedan into supercar stuff going back to the original fast fleet sedan GTO and nothing that a fleet special sedan owner couldn't do in his own garage at much lower cost.
The result is something that still drives like an overweight machine as quickly as it might do so.


I'd love to see what pricing out the 6.4L, a full kit of Brembo brakes, axles, stand-alone adjustable suspension, upgraded suspension bits, upgraded diff, upgraded cooling and upgraded wheels and tires would cost to fit to a basic Charger and see how that compares to the price of an SRT.

That's the same line of loony that had folks thinking their '03 GT could be made to run with a Terminator for less than just buying the Terminator.

To make a factory-reliable go fast setup costs a lot of money. Generally, particularly in the last 20 years, it has been cheaper to just buy the faster car.

Yes, the Charger is heavy, and you feel that weight. But there's a very significant difference between how a base V6, an R/T and the SRT's drive. My M5 wasn't a light car either, but it was surprisingly nimble, despite sharing its underpinnings with its pedestrian "fleet sedan" E39 siblings

 

[Lolvoguy]

Took my 30 year old BMW for a spin last weekend. Got my first speeding ticket in 8 years.
I was angered with myself about the ticket, yet felt thoroughly impressed with how well that little inline 6 was revving.

Despite having twice the hp and BETTER fuel economy than the BMW, the Lexus cannot hold a candle to the BMW in terms of overall driver enjoyment.

true story

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by fdcg27
All standard sedan into supercar stuff going back to the original fast fleet sedan GTO and nothing that a fleet special sedan owner couldn't do in his own garage at much lower cost.
Yeah, I'm sure anyone can just install adaptive damping suspension or pop in a V8 engine, an upgraded transmission, and all associated hardware and software in their own garage with one hand while sipping Old Milwaukee.

Quote
The result is something that still drives like an overweight machine as quickly as it might do so.
It is heavy, no doubt. But if you want a new 4-door family sedan that's still reasonably entertaining to drive without breaking a bank on initial purchase price and on on-going maintenance and repairs, what else is there?




Let's put this in perspective, an M5 weighs 4,370 lbs and a Charger SRT 392 4,410.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted by IndyIan
Originally Posted by MCompact
My two favorite cars are at opposite ends of the technology/speed spectrum; my 150 hp Club Sport is dead slow, running the quarter in @16 seconds. However, it is relatively light, very nimble, and it lets you know everything that is going on at the contact passage. I learned a lot about track driving in the Club Sport, as you have to conserve momentum everywhere; one mistake and you'll pay for it for another lap or two. You also have to keep the engine above 4000 rpm to make usable power.

In contrast, my 2 Series can run the quarter in an acceptably quick 13 seconds and the turbo inline six makes maximum torque from 1400-4500 rpm. It's just as much fun, but in a totally different way(for one thing, I no longer have to give 10 point-bys every lap like I had to in the Club Sport). Putting the car in Sport+ mode allows you quite a bit of latitude before the DSC kicks in, and you can disable it altogether if you choose. I especially like the ability to be able to transform the car from laid-back cruiser to track toy with the push of a button.

I've owned the Club Sport since new and intend to leave it to my son to enjoy. I probably won't keep the 2er that long, but right now the only new cars I'd consider to replace it are the M2/M2C and the Giulia Quadrifoglio.

So which do you enjoy more to drive briskly on the street?
This last weekend my SIL got married they had a fun autocross event at their wedding reception. Anyways there was a huge range of cars and driver experience, and it was interesting how a 1997 Miata only modded with suspension to handle Hoosier slicks, was the most exciting/terrifying vehicle out there to anyone who went on a ride along. There was a 550hp 2200lb M3 hill climb special and a 2016 Z06 on RE-71's which were faster of course, but were too hard to drive at 11/10 to make you cringe at 60-70-80 mph on slalom sections.
Also people were blown away how hard on a 1992 Civic could turn with good suspension and tires.


It's hard to say; the Club Sport is a scalpel, the 2er is a broadsword. You can beat on the Club Sport like a redheaded stepchild without attracting attention, but on the other hand it's a hoot to floor the 2er at 45 mph and feel the rear end twitch as the tires fight for traction. The Club Sport rewards a precise driving technique,the 2 Series just goes- and on the street both are equally fast from Point A to Point B. And both are excellent at one of my favorite pastimes- suckering nitwits into trying to keep up with me on a tight on-ramp. I've seen some hilarious things in my rear view mirror.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Well, I pretty much love our Lexus GS350 F Sport.
Runs like a top, fun as heck and comfortable.

Some of my other cars have included '66 GTO, '68 L36 Corvette Roadster, '65 4-4-2.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by fdcg27
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by fdcg27
Putting 500 bhp in a fleet sedan merely makes for a fast version of a fleet sedan. It does not make of it a really entertaining car.
FYI, in case of the Charger, it's not just an engine... suspension, brakes, exhaust, trans programming are all different, which does add to the entertainment factor.

All standard sedan into supercar stuff going back to the original fast fleet sedan GTO and nothing that a fleet special sedan owner couldn't do in his own garage at much lower cost.
The result is something that still drives like an overweight machine as quickly as it might do so.

Bull.

If you can buy a brand new Challenger SXT and make it perform and appear in all aspects as well and as reliably as a Hellcat for under $65k I'll give you my 911.

PS... It's $20k for the engine.

 

[aquariuscsm]

SUV's (Soccermom Utility Vehicles) are popular because society has brainwashed all the cattle into liking them because that's what you're supposed to like,or else you're a bad parent. Crossovers just look plain inbred.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Didn't some of the sedans from the 60s have 300-400+ hp?

 

[Silverado12]

I have a 2018 Mustang GT and that thing is fast. In a way I have to agree. For pure driving enjoyment I can just as soon drive my Y2K GT. When merging onto I-95, all I have to do is gas on it and no issues getting up to speed. The power of the new one is just overkill.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
Didn't some of the sedans from the 60s have 300-400+ hp?


SAE GROSS, which is significantly less when converted to NET, often in the order of 30%.

Ford produced the 427 SOHC which was available "over the parts counter" and produced 657HP (GROSS) in dual-quad config. NET, with accessories, it probably produced around 450-500HP, making it comparable to the present day Chrysler 392.

The 427 SOHC was probably THE most powerful stock engine offered in that era, though I know Chrysler had a few wild HEMI's but IIRC, none of them were street mills.

If you look up some old 1/4 mile times, take a look at the trap speeds. That'll give you a better indication of what they were really producing for power. E/T isn't much help because the tires were junk and hooking up was next to impossible.