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Re: Motomaster Formula 1 Synthetic 5W-30 new baseline [Re: cdlamb] #4860026 09/04/18 09:14 PM
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Garak Offline
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Originally Posted by cdlamb
Is it at least a good conventional oil?

The most realistic possibilities are that the product in the jug isn't what was claimed, or the testing results were messed up with something else, or there are serious typos on their report, or their testing is totally out of calibration somewhere. If this testing is correct, no, it's not a good conventional oil, either. If the results are correct, this oil is not suitable for use. If the PQIA came across this in their testing, they'd be flagging it for sure.

So, we have no idea what happened. If it were me, I'd submit a sample from the same bottle to another lab, not to mention have the product retested by the people who did this. I'd also bring it up with Canadian Tire. It could be from Shell, but could be a Citgo product, too; even a Castrol one. Didn't the lab indicate that if this is motor oil, that something is wrong?


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Motomaster Formula 1 Synthetic 5W-30 new baseline [Re: cdlamb] #4860036 09/04/18 09:29 PM
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StevieC Offline
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Here is what Formula Shell 5w30 Synthetic looks like and I know that the Motomaster Formula 1 Synthetic is based on this when bottled by Shell for them.

http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/formulashellsyn.htm


'18 Caravan - 50k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w20, Fram Ultra, TC-W3 500:1
'06 Santa Fe - 535k KM (Retired)

There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluids! mad
Re: Motomaster Formula 1 Synthetic 5W-30 new baseline [Re: cdlamb] #4860039 09/04/18 09:36 PM
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PimTac Offline
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I would think about dumping this and getting something else in your vehicle. There are too many questions here and if it were me I would have dumped it yesterday.


2017 Mazda CX5
Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Motomaster Formula 1 Synthetic 5W-30 new baseline [Re: PimTac] #4860088 09/04/18 10:23 PM
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bbhero Offline
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Originally Posted by PimTac
I would think about dumping this and getting something else in your vehicle. There are too many questions here and if it were me I would have dumped it yesterday.



Agree 100%.

That is spooky no good.


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Cam2 Full synthetic 5w30 Carquest Blue 84356
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: Motomaster Formula 1 Synthetic 5W-30 new baseline [Re: cdlamb] #4860091 09/04/18 10:28 PM
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cdlamb Offline OP
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well the good news is that i only used .700 of a liter to get the required 5.7 liters in the engine from this jug, & the bulk of the oil in my truck is from another jug purchased on a different date. Makes me wonder what I got. It was a new jug, that was opened on my first oil change. I pulled .700 liters from it last time to top off the engine, Used the full new jug, & took 700 ml out for this change.

Re: Motomaster Formula 1 Synthetic 5W-30 new baseline [Re: cdlamb] #4860093 09/04/18 10:33 PM
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PimTac Offline
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Check the lot numbers and see if they match.

Even if they don’t, if it were my car I would still get rid of it. I would bring this up with CT too. Also, check if there is a number to call for Motomaster. They might be interested in the analysis you had done.


2017 Mazda CX5
Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Motomaster Formula 1 Synthetic 5W-30 new baseline [Re: cdlamb] #4860100 09/04/18 11:13 PM
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cdlamb Offline OP
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Yes, I checked lot numbers. I have 2 bottles with same lot number.

Not sure how much I trust AGAT if they wouldn't have advised me this ASAP.

I have to think that AGAT made a mistake, But they should have informed me immediately if they determine that the additives are not right.

The lot # of the jug I sent in is MS4A037/21/1705:34 11036242 C521 07/APR/17
The bulk of the oil in engine is the same except 5:09 instead of 5:34

I guess I might send the used oil analysis from next change into both Fluidlife, & AGAT, & see how they compare.

I cant go sending baseline samples away from each oil change, to ensure that I am getting what I purchased, I have to trust Shell/ Canadian Tire has a Quality Control in place that would prevent this from hitting the shelf if that's the case.

I am about 100 kilometers away from when I have been sending last 2 samples, so I guess I send one more.

I have contacted Canadian Tire, Shell, & AGAT.

I hope there is a mistake on AGAT or I opened up a can of worms for someone in Quality Control somewhere.

Re: Motomaster Formula 1 Synthetic 5W-30 new baseline [Re: Garak] #4860109 09/04/18 11:51 PM
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sir1900 Offline
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Originally Posted by Garak
Originally Posted by cdlamb
Is it at least a good conventional oil?

The most realistic possibilities are that the product in the jug isn't what was claimed, or the testing results were messed up with something else, or there are serious typos on their report, or their testing is totally out of calibration somewhere. If this testing is correct, no, it's not a good conventional oil, either. If the results are correct, this oil is not suitable for use. If the PQIA came across this in their testing, they'd be flagging it for sure.

So, we have no idea what happened. If it were me, I'd submit a sample from the same bottle to another lab, not to mention have the product retested by the people who did this. I'd also bring it up with Canadian Tire. It could be from Shell, but could be a Citgo product, too; even a Castrol one. Didn't the lab indicate that if this is motor oil, that something is wrong?


Well according to the OP's photo. it looks like F1 made by Shell. With Shell's high standards, I'm thinking the test was improperly conducted.

Contacting CT may or may not be helpful.


2015 Infiniti Q50
Mobil1 5W-30 + FRAM PH6607

2015 Nissan Murano
Mobil1 AFE 0W-20 + Mobil 1 M1-108A
Re: Motomaster Formula 1 Synthetic 5W-30 new baseline [Re: newbe46] #4860111 09/04/18 11:55 PM
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sir1900 Offline
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Originally Posted by newbe46
Originally Posted by sir1900
TBN embarrassingly low for a Full Synthetic.


What is the TBN for an "entry level" full synthetic, e.g. PP or Mobil 1?

I've always wanted to try Motomaster Synthetic.


Pennzoil and Mobil 1's TBN is north of 8. Even Pennzoil's conventional is higher than 8.

Check PQIA. There is a plethora of information.

www.pqiamerica.com


2015 Infiniti Q50
Mobil1 5W-30 + FRAM PH6607

2015 Nissan Murano
Mobil1 AFE 0W-20 + Mobil 1 M1-108A
Re: Motomaster Formula 1 Synthetic 5W-30 new baseline [Re: PimTac] #4860120 09/05/18 12:31 AM
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cdlamb Offline OP
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Originally Posted by PimTac
Check the lot numbers and see if they match.

Even if they don’t, if it were my car I would still get rid of it. I would bring this up with CT too. Also, check if there is a number to call for Motomaster. They might be interested in the analysis you had done.


Motomaster is Canadian Tire stores house brand of products

yes, I contacted Canadian Tire, Shell, AGAT, and PQIA, giving them lot #'s

Re: Motomaster Formula 1 Synthetic 5W-30 new baseline [Re: cdlamb] #4860238 09/05/18 08:09 AM
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irv Offline
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Originally Posted by cdlamb
Originally Posted by PimTac
Check the lot numbers and see if they match.

Even if they don’t, if it were my car I would still get rid of it. I would bring this up with CT too. Also, check if there is a number to call for Motomaster. They might be interested in the analysis you had done.


Motomaster is Canadian Tire stores house brand of products

yes, I contacted Canadian Tire, Shell, AGAT, and PQIA, giving them lot #'s


Thanks for posting this up and doing the VOA. Like someone else mentioned, I was also curious about using this oil but shied away from it thinking it was likely less stellar than most oils out there. Glad I stuck with my instincts.


2017 Chevy Impala 3.6 L.
2013 Ram 5.7 L Hemi Bighorn QC 4x4
2008 Chevy Malibu 2.4 L Ecotec
Pennzoil Platinum and/or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum in all 3.
Re: Motomaster Formula 1 Synthetic 5W-30 new baseline [Re: cdlamb] #4860324 09/05/18 10:09 AM
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I ran this kind of oil out to 14,800 miles and the UOA was very good with 16 ppm of iron and life left in the oil. Shell doesn't make bad oil but then nothing is perfect and mistakes happen. My money is on a poor analysis if the virgin sample. If it proves to be the actual oil is defective, it will be interesting to see what they do about. Perhaps a recall/public notice? Shell cannot have their name associated with something that can damage your engine. Will they lawyer up and squash this?

Re: Motomaster Formula 1 Synthetic 5W-30 new baseline [Re: StevieC] #4860342 09/05/18 10:41 AM
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newbe46 Offline
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Originally Posted by StevieC
A lot of labs aren't properly calibrated as I found out from Terry. I sent him a sample, Blackstone, Wear Check, and Toromont-Cat and Blackstone was far out from Wear Check which was similar to Toromont-Cat but was still out. Terry's was identical to Wear Check.

Terry told me his lab he uses in Ohio recalibrates before any of his samples are processed and they use tighter specs with the equipment they have versus Blackstone. I don't remember what it is but there is two ways to do lab testing on oil samples and one is more expensive but a lot more accurate versus the other which is the one Blackstone uses.

Now I'm not cutting up Blackstone because they give you a really good idea with pretty good accuracy and their price is decent, but this is more to prove my point that the lab you used might be wildly out of calibration and not realize it although from those numbers it should be obvious to them.



This makes me wonder... some of us don't just take the recommended OCI by the manufacturers, we go steps further to get UOA over a period of time and the point of this is to see how good any oil performs and to determine the OCI on our own. If the labs don't calibrate their tools properly, where should we go from there?

Re: Motomaster Formula 1 Synthetic 5W-30 new baseline [Re: cdlamb] #4860348 09/05/18 10:47 AM
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PimTac Offline
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The way to confirm would be to send a sample to another lab.

This has been a very interesting discussion. I hope the op gets to the bottom of things and keeps us apprised.


2017 Mazda CX5
Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Motomaster Formula 1 Synthetic 5W-30 new baseline [Re: cdlamb] #4860388 09/05/18 11:36 AM
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Smokescreen Offline
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Originally Posted by cdlamb
How do I post a PDF file of the AGAT oil test?

I submitted sample straight from the oil jug.

Could Canadian Tire be purchasing fake oil, not from Shell Canada, but in its packaging?

Maybe something wrong with AGAT testing methods?



I can hardly find any bottles of that shape anymore. They are more the round handles like this:

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/motomaster-formula-1-synthetic-motor-oil-5-l-0288712p.html#srp

I am sure the formulation is different in these new bottles.


13 Civic Si 2.4L-105Kkms(66Kmi)-QSUD,Wix
05 LeSabre 3.8L-294Kkms(184Kmi)-QSUD,Wix
03 Sierra 2500 6.0L-209Kkms(130Kmi)-QSUD,Wix

All with mpg > EPA
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