Car manufacturer vs. Gates for timing belt interval

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paulri

paulri

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I'm going to have the belt changed on my Civic based on time, not miles. That part has been decided. The only question is exactly when. It is an interference engine. It got its last belt 50K miles and 6 years ago.

Gates, the manufacturer of the belt, say change their belts at 6 years (right on the cover of their manual). The Civic manual (and my mechanic, FWIW) say to change it at 7 years. From what I could see after raising the hood, the belts all looked just fine--no cracks that I could see; there was a decent amount of tension on them.

I realize that the odds of it breaking at 6 years are lower than at 7, but I'm wondering if there is a more specific reason to follow Gates here. The support at Gates I just called was rather tight lipped about the whole thing.
 
I wouldn't go past the recommendation of the OEM or the Belt Manufacturer whichever is lower. Especially because you could have a small oil leak or coolant leak in that time that can mess up the belt and waiting an extra year before changing it could mean the difference between saving the engine and kissing it goodbye if the leak has time to saturate the belt before you get to changing it.

Just my opinion.
 
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Darn, that wasn't what I wanted to hear.
smile.gif


Seriously, I could see not waiting an extra year if I'm changing it based on miles (it would take me 14 years to get it to the 105K mark). The fact that this is a generic statement by Gates, applying to all the belts in that catalog, makes me think that it would only apply to the belts most likely to go. They have some older belts (belts for older cars from the 802 & 90s) that have mileage intervals of 25 and 30K.

I suppose this all boils down to what the odds are that it will fail before Honda tells me to change it....
 
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I would also use OE for timing belts and not gates. Although gates makes some good stuff, when it comes to interference engines and timing belts OE is best. I would have more confidence in a Honda belt that you want to push farther. You could also always have the belt inspected when it's due and see if it's ok to keep going. Not that difficult to do on most vehicles.
 
That's some interesting info. My mechanic put the belts on both my cars--whether I should learn to do it myself is probably going to be the topic of another thread. I realize that doing this is much more serious than even changing oil & coolant, which I have been doing lately.

I did check for cracks this morning, and from what of the belt I could see, I saw none. There was plenty of tension there---or would a mechanic do a more thorough inspection?
 
Tension, cracks, teeth depth, fraying, and any leaks from gaskets that hold back oil or the water pump onto the belt is what to look for. If all that checks out everywhere on the belt you are good to go. I would advise turning the engine over by hand to inspect all areas of the belt.

It can be a PITA to change a timing belt depending on the make/model. Removing the engine mount is usually required so supporting the engine is something that needs to be done. Lining up the timing marks is critical and the tensioner can be a little tricky to deal with if it's your first time. Especially the hydraulic ones that need a pin to hold them in the loosened position until the belt is reinstalled. Honestly it's easier to either have it done, or have someone who has done it there to support you because you will know in short order if it's not done right and can grenade the engine.

I have done a few myself and my dad has done thousands but we still turn the engines over by hand before starting them to double check our work and to make sure it's not off by a tooth which can happen easily.
 
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You probably could squeeze out another year but with an interference engine, why take the chance?

If you plan on keeping this car, might as well get an Aisin kit and do the tensioners, seals, and water pump while in there.
 
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I've probably changed out 15 timing belts in in the past, either my own or helping someone to do so. Never have I found one that looks worn to me, they always look pretty good. But what I have found most of the time are worn tensioner and idler pulley assemblies. The one time I changed out a timing belt and left the tensioner it failed about 30,000 miles later. So to me those are the components I'd be more worried about as opposed to the belt itself.

And +1 on the Aisin kit even for a Honda where it isn't OEM like it is for Toyota. The ones I've bought for my Accord have been of the same high quality as the rest. The Gates kit I originally bought had a Chinese water pump that started leaking out the weep hole a year after installation.
 
VAG vehicles that used belts in the past had a time + mileage recommendation as well. fact is once the warranty is gone manufacturers care less, + the cost of a broken belt while driving can render an older car JUNK. like oils the heat you live + drive in makes a big difference in safe belt life + opening the hood after a hot drive as i did made me more comfortable, but i changed belts + ALL related parts on my 1.8T jetta @ 75 thou, cheap insurance for sure. gates makes a better belt for my TT same engine basically, but under warranty OE is a good choice but NOT mine.
 
Last I knew Honda's are an interference engine meaning if it snaps your engine is SHOT. I had one with a nice belt never raced break right at 60,000 +- 3000 miles. Just rolling down the interstate. Mine was a standard and I saved the engine by spiking the clutch the second the idiot lights flickered and just let it roll to a stop that way. Quick thinking augmented by pure dumb luck.
OEM belt too.. I don't recall how old it was though. I wouldn't get frantic about it but why take the risk. The kit is cheap and it's not a hard or time consuming job. Make sure to writ with something permanent the date and mileage changed so you or the next owner doesn't have to guess.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
I've probably changed out 15 timing belts in in the past, either my own or helping someone to do so. Never have I found one that looks worn to me, they always look pretty good. But what I have found most of the time are worn tensioner and idler pulley assemblies. The one time I changed out a timing belt and left the tensioner it failed about 30,000 miles later. So to me those are the components I'd be more worried about as opposed to the belt itself.


This.

Belts, unless in severe service, are safe up to their mileage IMO, and I don't worry about age in a mild climate or non-severe use. But I've seen and experienced the ancillary gear fail. like he said. If the OP wants to follow the time schedule instead, there's no harm done. But don't ignore the tensioner, etc. As kschachn said, they are more failure prone than the belt.

Quote
I would also use OE for timing belts and not gates. Although gates makes some good stuff, when it comes to interference engines and timing belts OE is best.


Since Gates IS the OE maker for many manufacturers, why pay the middle man? Your Japanese built Toyota may have a Mitsuboshi belt, but NA built cars can have Gates OE from their WV and AL engine plants. There is no reason not to use Gates.
 
I understand they are an OE maker for certain OE's but I wouldn't use it if it wasn't what the OE uses for a part this critical.
 
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OEM all day. I remember on the Accord forum several Accords on their original timing belts with 200k+ miles on them. One guy had 3 Accords in his family, dad, brother, etc and they all had 200k+ on them. These were 6th gen Accords so 98 and up. One car was a V6 so bwtn the engine and trans going it was a toss up.
 
50K miles and 6 years old and there is no way I'm changing out that timing belt. Id run it AT LEAST another year, probably two more years, if the mileage is low. I've put 150K, 160K miles on a timing belt and was perfectly comfortable doing it.
 
Originally Posted by paulri
Is this what folks are recommending be used--does this kit have everything else, in addition to the belt? If so, the price sure is right. I guess its the labor that yanks the cost for these jobs up.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=2596256&cc=1315633&jsn=790
I bought that same kit for an '05 Odyssey and the parts were identical to the OEM parts that we removed. By identical, the water pump we took was made by AISIN just like the replacement and the bearings were Koyo, and so on. I don't recall seeing part numbers but AISIN isn't going to make (2) water pumps for an '05 Odyssey - one they sell to Honda and one they sell aftermarket. That's just silly !

Also, companies like Gates - just one example - are OEM parts in many instances. Gates may make a serpentine belt for a Honda model that goes on Hondas when they're originally built. They aren't going to make a second design for aftermarket.
 
When I changed the belt on the Camry at 16 years and 110k, the belt was in good shape but the water pump was clearly on borrowed time.
 
I used a gates but would use Aisin next time. For no real reason other than getting an Aisin pump vs the China Gates pump.
 
Unless owners' forum on the internet has horror story on your car for TB, I'd stick with the OEM interval. Gates probably use a general rule of thumb 60k interval instead of the awkard 70k from OEM (or 105k in some cases).

That 70k most likely already has a safety margin build in.
 
I'd change it at 5 years if the car didn't get enough miles by then.

Use the OE timing belt like the Aisin kit, or perhaps the Gates Racing TB which may be stronger than OE
smile.gif
 
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