Question For Experienced Shotgunners

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CCI

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Please no speculation, Google, or armchair commandos here, looking for the voice of knowledge based upon experience.

What is the best way to think about shot density, overall spread (pattern size), and impact energy at various distances?

Ideally, I'd like to look at a matrix of OO through #2 at 10 yards to 40 yards.

12 gauge, 18-ish inch barrel, open.
 
You really cant have everything. With an 18" barrel, no choke, you lose velocity and gain a wide pattern. Best I have used/seen was this LE buck that holds a tight group for a decent distance. There is still spread but it holds well.
 
I appreciate the chance to clarify the question. I understand the concept of the trade-off, I'm looking for numbers.

For example, in real world experience, what does 00 (2-3/4") look like at 10, 20, 30, 40 yards?

Same for #1 or #2 shot, all 2-3/4" shells.

If we were to assume a hypothetical 18" diameter circle, with each type of ammo, at what distance could one reasonably expect half the load to be inside the circle, and at what distance do we lose half the energy?
 
You mean like this::

shot_strings_choke_effect.jpg


https://www.hunter-ed.com/montana/studyGuide/Shotgun-Choke-and-Shot-Pattern/201027_700048225/

Just for more shot sizes/types?
 
Originally Posted By: CCI
Please no speculation, Google, or armchair commandos here, looking for the voice of knowledge based upon experience. What is the best way to think about shot density, overall spread (pattern size), and impact energy at various distances?


Originally Posted By: CCI
For example, in real world experience, what does 00 (2-3/4") look like at 10, 20, 30, 40 yards? Same for #1 or #2 shot, all 2-3/4" shells.


There is only one way. Take your gun, along with your given load, and pattern it yourself at the range. It is the ONLY way you will know what your gun is shooting at any given distance, with any given shot payload.

They sell patterning targets, or you can make your own by tracing out a 30" circle on some white paper. They are both easy and cheap to make. Depending on how your choke is made, the length of your barrel, the type of load you are shooting, will all make a difference on how your gun performs.

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Winchester-Pattern-Target-30-Clays/productinfo/WPTSC/

https://www.amazon.com/Shotgun-Patterning-Trouble-Shooter-Shooting/dp/B008FPPDT0

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101520...r-package-of-10
 

There is only one way. Take your gun, along with your given load, and pattern it yourself at the range. It is the ONLY way you will know what your gun is shooting at any given distance, with any given shot payload.

OK, will do.
 
I patterned my Remington 870 (18" barrel, 2 3/4" shells, open choke) with 00 buck, #4 buck, and #4 bird. At 10 yards The 00 buck (Fiocchi Exacta, Reduced recoil, nickel plated) gave 6-8" patterns, the #4 buck (Hornady Varmint Express, Versatite Wad) gave 4-5" patterns, and the #4 bird (Winchester SuperX) gave 12-17" patterns. The #4 buck was promoted as having a special shot cup that delivers tighter patterns.

Pretty easy to do, just hang a large sheet of paper and have at it with the shells of your choice.
 
Quote:
There is only one way. Take your gun, along with your given load, and pattern it yourself at the range. It is the ONLY way you will know what your gun is shooting at any given distance, with any given shot payload.


Words of wisdom

You'll be surprised how many shotguns point of impact is not at the point of aim. Pretty hard to hit targets until the POI is at the POA.
 
On YouTube there is a guy who is LE and his dept switched over to Federal 00 buck flight control since it holds real tight patterns. Figure out the farthest distance you could make a shot in your home and base your test patterns on that distance.

For me I'm no more than 20 feet so any 00 buck will do the job but the Federal Flight control is the best pattern best being the tightest. A real elephant stopper is the Winchester PDX1 slug with 3 coated aprox 32 caliber balls it's a devestating load but make sure you hit your target or it will go threw several walls and your car door parked in the garage!
 
Are you talking about just buckshot? I ask because you mentioned "#2" and there is no #2 buckshot, but there is #2 for duck and lite goose etc.

Like someone above said, just pattern it on paper yourself. I hunt goose with BB and a side by side 12 Ga, side by sides have 2 different "choke" barrels. A dime will fit in my left barrel but not the right barrel.
 
What are you trying to accomplish? You have to have a defined mission before ANYONE can even start to answer your questions.

You mentioned 18 inch barrel and buckshot and larger bird shot loads, so perhaps you are talking about home defense? Or maybe predator control on a farm?

40 yards isn't home defense, so I'm taking a wild guess that this is for predator control?

You probably should be aware of a shot-cup called Flight Control wad. Hornady sells the EXACT same thing, but they call it a Versa-Tite wad. These specialized waddings are designed to keep the shot pellets together over much longer distances. If you are shooting buckshot over long distances (40 yards) then you need to use a Flight control or Versatite wad.

Most 18 inch barrels have a cylinder or modified choke. These are ideal for Flight control or versatite.

If your gun has replaceable chokes, such as full, you do NOT want to use flight control or versatite wads with a full choke gun. Your pattern will actually be worse. Full choke is for regular shotgun shells that lack versatite wads.

Report back exactly what you are trying to accomplish and perhaps we can give you a better, more informed response.
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
What are you trying to accomplish? You have to have a defined mission before ANYONE can even start to answer your questions.

You mentioned 18 inch barrel and buckshot and larger bird shot loads, so perhaps you are talking about home defense? Or maybe predator control on a farm?

40 yards isn't home defense, so I'm taking a wild guess that this is for predator control?

You probably should be aware of a shot-cup called Flight Control wad. Hornady sells the EXACT same thing, but they call it a Versa-Tite wad. These specialized waddings are designed to keep the shot pellets together over much longer distances. If you are shooting buckshot over long distances (40 yards) then you need to use a Flight control or Versatite wad.

Most 18 inch barrels have a cylinder or modified choke. These are ideal for Flight control or versatite.

If your gun has replaceable chokes, such as full, you do NOT want to use flight control or versatite wads with a full choke gun. Your pattern will actually be worse. Full choke is for regular shotgun shells that lack versatite wads.

Report back exactly what you are trying to accomplish and perhaps we can give you a better, more informed response.


This.

Use regular 00 for good short range spread, and flight control wad for longer distances, all with the same cylinder choke.
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
What are you trying to accomplish? You have to have a defined mission before ANYONE can even start to answer your questions.

You mentioned 18 inch barrel and buckshot and larger bird shot loads, so perhaps you are talking about home defense? Or maybe predator control on a farm?

40 yards isn't home defense, so I'm taking a wild guess that this is for predator control?

You probably should be aware of a shot-cup called Flight Control wad. Hornady sells the EXACT same thing, but they call it a Versa-Tite wad. These specialized waddings are designed to keep the shot pellets together over much longer distances. If you are shooting buckshot over long distances (40 yards) then you need to use a Flight control or Versatite wad.

Most 18 inch barrels have a cylinder or modified choke. These are ideal for Flight control or versatite.

If your gun has replaceable chokes, such as full, you do NOT want to use flight control or versatite wads with a full choke gun. Your pattern will actually be worse. Full choke is for regular shotgun shells that lack versatite wads.

Report back exactly what you are trying to accomplish and perhaps we can give you a better, more informed response.



I believe I may have in the past already acknowledged and complimented your unusually astute observational skills.
smile.gif



"40 yards isn't home defense, so I'm taking a wild guess that this is for predator control?"

You got it, this is not for home defense, most likely this is going to be for feral dogs. These aren't strays, these are serious predators with bad intent, no fear, sometimes (not always) coming out of heavy cover at fairly close range, they generally know we're there before we know they are there, and often there's more than one. I don't want to depend upon a handgun, and if they are at the distance that a carbine could be used, they really aren't a threat. I want something that takes the initiative out of their attack.

The reason I asked the question the way I did is my sense is there is some size shot that is going to provide an optimally sized pattern with an adequate amount of energy at a certain range plus or minus a few yards.

Slug barrel, doesn't have replaceable chokes.I will look at flight control and versalite.

As always I appreciate your participation and advice.
 
Originally Posted By: CCI
...this is going to be for feral dogs. These aren't strays, these are serious predators with bad intent, no fear, sometimes (not always) coming out of heavy cover at fairly close range, they generally know we're there before we know they are there, and often there's more than one.

The reason I asked the question the way I did is my sense is there is some size shot that is going to provide an optimally sized pattern with an adequate amount of energy at a certain range plus or minus a few yards.


Thanks for getting back. I have the load for you.

Hornady #86243 is #4 buckshot with their Versatite wad. This load is really good at long range, and perfect size for dog size critters. Thats what I would load for dogs at 10-50 yards.

090255862430.jpg
 
No, not 4 buck, # 4 lead bird shot with #2s and BB as a second and 3rd choice. Dogs are thin skinned and not very thick. At 40 yards, even with #6 bird, he won't come back for more, He will either lie down and bleed out, or his buddies will look after him in short order.
 
"Thanks for getting back. I have the load for you.

Hornady #86243 is #4 buckshot with their Versatite wad. This load is really good at long range, and perfect size for dog size critters. Thats what I would load for dogs at 10-50 yards. "



That looks good.

As always, thank you.
 
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