Ceratec tested looks like a snake oil result.

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Then I added some to the old Accent, it too went up 1-2 mpg.

I find that hard to believe.
Why is that?

I added the Ceratec on 1/27/2018

112 3/13/18 437.12 11.114 39.33 2.339 10% BP Ge
111 3/5/18 388.50 10.253 37.89 2.339 10% BP Ge
110 2/22/18 423.15 11.086 38.17 2.319 10% BP A
109 2/14/18 398.69 10.672 37.36 2.249 10% BP A
108 2/6/18 385.88 10.341 37.32 2.379 10% BP Ge heavy snow
107 1/30/18 417.38 11.214 37.22 2.319 10% 66 C. coolant work
106 1/23/18 395.85 10.836 36.53 2.399 10% BP Ge
105 1/15/18 418.32 11.254 37.17 2.399 10% BP Ge
104 1/5/18 382.50 11.287 33.89 2.319 10% BP A very cold
103 12/29/17 369.95 10.598 34.91 2.359 10% Ca CC

 

[Kestas]

If everyone's car had an increase of 1-2 mpg, then you have single-handedly discovered a way to significantly reduce our nation's dependence on foreign oil... on the level of adding 10% ethanol to our gasoline. I don't think auto manufacturers or the government would ignore such a significant effect, especially in the face of technology presently added to vehicles, such as start-stop, throttle by wire, dual intakes, and hybrid designs.

I think you are experiencing a placebo effect... perhaps driving more gingerly.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
If everyone's car had an increase of 1-2 mpg, then you have single-handedly discovered a way to significantly reduce our nation's dependence on foreign oil... on the level of adding 10% ethanol to our gasoline. I don't think auto manufacturers or the government would ignore such a significant effect, especially in the face of technology presently added to vehicles, such as start-stop, throttle by wire, dual intakes, and hybrid designs.

I think you are experiencing a placebo effect... perhaps driving more gingerly.
Thanks for your opinion. The Gen Coupe went up a bit too. Driving a car and keeping track of the gas mileage for 10 years gives one a good feel.

Have you ever used Ceratec?

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
If everyone's car had an increase of 1-2 mpg, then you have single-handedly discovered a way to significantly reduce our nation's dependence on foreign oil... on the level of adding 10% ethanol to our gasoline. I don't think auto manufacturers or the government would ignore such a significant effect, especially in the face of technology presently added to vehicles, such as start-stop, throttle by wire, dual intakes, and hybrid designs.

I think you are experiencing a placebo effect... perhaps driving more gingerly.
AAA just showed that premium gas typically increases fuel economy. Yet most people don't use it and manufactures don't usually require it. Why would additives be different?

 

[Kestas]

No, I don't use such products unless I know exactly how they work. I've seen too many similar products over the years, heavily backed up with scientific word soup and testimonials. This is then followed by people posting how wonderful these products are. I've found holes in their advertising campaigns that most people either wouldn't or aren't able to uncover.

Snake oil products have been evaluated scientifically by some group (EPA?) in the past, and of the hundred or so products, only one had any measurable positive result.

There are a number of companies making money off this trend:
Ceracoat
Ceramizer
Certech
Dynamax
RVS
Nanoenergizer
Xado
Cermax
and my favorite... Cermet

 

[SuperSalad]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: Kestas
If everyone's car had an increase of 1-2 mpg, then you have single-handedly discovered a way to significantly reduce our nation's dependence on foreign oil... on the level of adding 10% ethanol to our gasoline. I don't think auto manufacturers or the government would ignore such a significant effect, especially in the face of technology presently added to vehicles, such as start-stop, throttle by wire, dual intakes, and hybrid designs.

I think you are experiencing a placebo effect... perhaps driving more gingerly.
AAA just showed that premium gas typically increases fuel economy. Yet most people don't use it and manufactures don't usually require it. Why would additives be different?

Last I saw, that only applied to vehicles designed to run on premium fuel, which many are not. Do you have a link to this new study?

 

[Kestas]

Originally Posted By: hatt
AAA just showed that premium gas typically increases fuel economy. Yet most people don't use it and manufactures don't usually require it. Why would additives be different?

Sorry, that is a straw man argument.

 

[kschachn]

What makes it especially egregious is that it's not as if there is no standardized fuel economy test and instead you have to rely on testimonials and "real world" fuel economy to obtain results. If there really was a measurable and statistically significant fuel economy improvement due to an additive then posting the results of a standard ASTM test showing the benefit would settle the matter in a heartbeat.

But what do these additive companies do instead? They rely on unsubstantiated testimonials. They know this will work because it is impossible to obtain accurate fuel economy comparisons in the real world. A while back I posted a link to an article about this subject where they showed that it is impossible to obtain accurate comparisons in daily driving. For one thing the energy density of fuel is quite variable, up to 4% even at the same station. So unless you are using standard test gasoline you have to account for the energy variability of gasoline as your starting point. Considering that most of these additive companies do not claim large increases, their claims fall withing the variability of normal pump gasoline.

Add to that mix the changes between winter and summer blends, the amount of EtOH in any one tank, and the myriad of other uncontrolled variables in everyday driving it is easy to see that any one claim generally falls well below the noise of any measurement a consumer can make. Remember it's not the measurement of a difference that is meaningful, it is instead the ability to attribute it to one specific variable. This is where the problem lies. Only in a laboratory is it possible to constrain all variables except one and produce statistically valid data. It is this data which is conspicuously missing from additive company literature and websites.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: hatt
AAA just showed that premium gas typically increases fuel economy. Yet most people don't use it and manufactures don't usually require it. Why would additives be different?

Sorry, that is a straw man argument.
Not really. Premium gas subsidies would have been a lot cheaper than fooling with ethanol and would have similar reductions in overall petroleum usage. Not as many people would have profited off of premium gas so we got booze. "Reduce our dependence on foreign oil" was always a political statement so it was no big surprise when a big time crony and political solution was implemented at the expense of taxpayers.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Originally Posted By: hatt
AAA just showed that premium gas typically increases fuel economy. Yet most people don't use it and manufactures don't usually require it. Why would additives be different?

Last I saw, that only applied to vehicles designed to run on premium fuel, which many are not. Do you have a link to this new study?
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...as_#Post4826432

 

[SuperSalad]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Last I saw, that only applied to vehicles designed to run on premium fuel, which many are not. Do you have a link to this new study?
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...as_#Post4826432

So only in vehicles that recommend or require premium gasoline see this benefit. The cost to benefit ratio, as stated in the reference, doesn't pan out, so why would a manufacturer make the marketing error of increasing the cost of ownership?

 

[hatt]

They wouldn't. As I pointed out earlier engineers/manufactures don't do what's best. They do what's best and complies with everything else they have going on. Clearly designing around higher octane increases fuel economy. They don't do it because people don't want cars that get 4% better mileage on 30% more expensive gas. Just because a manufacturer doesn't recommend an additive of some sort has no bearing on the benefits (if any) of that additive.

 

[kr_bitog]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
If everyone's car had an increase of 1-2 mpg, then you have single-handedly discovered a way to significantly reduce our nation's dependence on foreign oil... on the level of adding 10% ethanol to our gasoline. I don't think auto manufacturers or the government would ignore such a significant effect, especially in the face of technology presently added to vehicles, such as start-stop, throttle by wire, dual intakes, and hybrid designs.

I think you are experiencing a placebo effect... perhaps driving more gingerly.

Even though I doubt Ceratec increase mpg like their MoS2, oil additive to reduce MPG is also in car manufacturer mind.
That is the reason new car like BMW specify special slick light engine oil for their car to get the amazing MPG.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
Originally Posted By: Kestas
If everyone's car had an increase of 1-2 mpg, then you have single-handedly discovered a way to significantly reduce our nation's dependence on foreign oil... on the level of adding 10% ethanol to our gasoline. I don't think auto manufacturers or the government would ignore such a significant effect, especially in the face of technology presently added to vehicles, such as start-stop, throttle by wire, dual intakes, and hybrid designs.

I think you are experiencing a placebo effect... perhaps driving more gingerly.

Even though I doubt Ceratec increase mpg like their MoS2, oil additive to reduce MPG is also in car manufacturer mind.
That is the reason new car like BMW specify special slick light engine oil for their car to get the amazing MPG.
You could buy some Ceratec and see if it does live up to it's claims instead of just imagining results.

 

[kr_bitog]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
Originally Posted By: Kestas
If everyone's car had an increase of 1-2 mpg, then you have single-handedly discovered a way to significantly reduce our nation's dependence on foreign oil... on the level of adding 10% ethanol to our gasoline. I don't think auto manufacturers or the government would ignore such a significant effect, especially in the face of technology presently added to vehicles, such as start-stop, throttle by wire, dual intakes, and hybrid designs.

I think you are experiencing a placebo effect... perhaps driving more gingerly.

Even though I doubt Ceratec increase mpg like their MoS2, oil additive to reduce MPG is also in car manufacturer mind.
That is the reason new car like BMW specify special slick light engine oil for their car to get the amazing MPG.
You could buy some Ceratec and see if it does live up to it's claims instead of just imagining results.


You may check my old thread on Ceratec, I have used Ceratec on a few engines. So far not much on mpg increase like MoS2, and for gasoline engine, I also experience first hand on deposit build up on spark plug. So even though the protection may work, but for non perfect engine, pinging also may be an issue.

 

[SHOZ]

If you are getting deposits on the plugs you must be burning oil right? May distort your actual findings as I have no deposits and do get a MPG increase but don't burn oil.

I should pull the plugs on my Accent as it does burn a bit of oil and I am using the Ceratec.

 

[kr_bitog]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
If you are getting deposits on the plugs you must be burning oil right? May distort your actual findings as I have no deposits and do get a MPG increase but don't burn oil.

I should pull the plugs on my Accent as it does burn a bit of oil and I am using the Ceratec.


My car was not burning oil initially, it suddenly getting worst after several Kreen treatment. The fuel economy never really drops, just the fuel consumption is getting worst. The Ceratec was put before the fuel consumption increase, and with another Ceratec on quite young engine (20k km), I also do not really notice increase MPG, even though I will notice slight increase of power.

With MoS2, the fuel economy is quite noticeable, and somewhow can feel that my engine is not really hot even during start and stop traffic.

It seems your mpg tacking is not really conclusive on Ceratec mpg improvement, I would say you try MoS2 and track it, you can see more noticeable difference.