I am in my 80's and some friends rebuilt the 289 engine in my 1965 Ranchero. The engine is tight and difficult to turn over by hand. It has about 65 pounds of oil pressure at idle. The vehicle runs great and I have less than 500 miles on the engine. I am still running 10-30 break in oil and the high pressure worries me about oil pump and cam gear wear and leaking gaskets.When I change out the break in oil, would 5-20 oil lower the pressure enough to matter and would it give enough lubrication? I would run an oil with proper amount of zinc as it is a flat tappet engine..
Oil For Tight 289 Rebuild
- Thread starter Lynniecee
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OVERKILL
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What are the cam specs? And do you know what clearances they used when the engine was assembled? I've known guys to run 5w-20 (and 0w-20) for drag racing, but those were in solid roller 302's rev'ing to the moon.
I usually recommend a Euro 0w-40 or 5w-40 for a Windsor, as it is a good fit for an engine with stock clearances. Did they use a high volume oil pump? I'm thinking they may have if it has 65psi hot at idle.
I usually recommend a Euro 0w-40 or 5w-40 for a Windsor, as it is a good fit for an engine with stock clearances. Did they use a high volume oil pump? I'm thinking they may have if it has 65psi hot at idle.
65 PSI oil pressure is pretty normal for a 289. I have owned a few of them back in the day.
Run a quality filter and keep running the 10w30.
Run a quality filter and keep running the 10w30.
STD clearances call for a 30 grade.
65 psig cold idle or hot?
If they put a high volume pump in have 'em drop the pan and take it out.
Or just drive it.
65 psig cold idle or hot?
If they put a high volume pump in have 'em drop the pan and take it out.
Or just drive it.
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Valvoline Vr1 10w30 would be a very good choice.
With 500 miles the engine is still wet behind the ears, it's not uncommom to have really high oil pressure with a fresh engine.
I have even known some fresh rebuilt engines to literally blow their oil filters when revved cold too much.
With 500 miles the engine is still wet behind the ears, it's not uncommom to have really high oil pressure with a fresh engine.
I have even known some fresh rebuilt engines to literally blow their oil filters when revved cold too much.
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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
What are the cam specs? And do you know what clearances they used when the engine was assembled? I've known guys to run 5w-20 (and 0w-20) for drag racing, but those were in solid roller 302's rev'ing to the moon.
I usually recommend a Euro 0w-40 or 5w-40 for a Windsor, as it is a good fit for an engine with stock clearances. Did they use a high volume oil pump? I'm thinking they may have if it has 65psi hot at idle.
Agreed; xW-40 would be my choice as well.
What are the cam specs? And do you know what clearances they used when the engine was assembled? I've known guys to run 5w-20 (and 0w-20) for drag racing, but those were in solid roller 302's rev'ing to the moon.
I usually recommend a Euro 0w-40 or 5w-40 for a Windsor, as it is a good fit for an engine with stock clearances. Did they use a high volume oil pump? I'm thinking they may have if it has 65psi hot at idle.
Agreed; xW-40 would be my choice as well.
Why was it built so tight? Do you know what the bearing clearance and piston ring gaps were set at?
On the 360 sprint car I help with occasionally we can turn the motor over with a 1/2" ratchet with ease, on a dial torque wrench its something like under 40ft-lb rotating torque. But then again this is a 360 making high 700-low 800hp.
On the 360 sprint car I help with occasionally we can turn the motor over with a 1/2" ratchet with ease, on a dial torque wrench its something like under 40ft-lb rotating torque. But then again this is a 360 making high 700-low 800hp.
I ask one of the guys what the clearances was and he said he didn't know. These were experienced older Ford guys and this was a suprise to me. One said everything turned easy when installed. The engine has new camshaft bearings, new camshaft, original crank with new pistons, rods, rings and crankshaft bearings. Hopefully it will loosen up with more miles but was suspecting some tight clearances with 65 lbs oil pressure with hot engine and was wondering if 5w-20 oil might flow better and work better than 10w-30.
OVERKILL
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Sounds like it might have too much oil pump, this is a Windsor, not a Cleveland, it doesn't need 10 million PSI to stay together, LOL! A stock volume stock pressure pump is more than adequate for anything but the wildest Windsor build usually. You are likely needlessly punishing the distributor drive gear and its cam counterpart turning that pump. It sounds like a stock rebuild based on your description
so it shouldn't be that tight.
What do you mean its tight? Are you saying that because its hard to turn over by hand? That means little. I don't see a problem with oil pressure.
The difficulty turning over by hand can be the compression ratio and more likely the valve spring rating for the cam. What springs and cam?
If runs great, and is not leaking anywhere, is there really any problem other than you are worried? I would not run 5w 20 in an old school pushrod 289.
The difficulty turning over by hand can be the compression ratio and more likely the valve spring rating for the cam. What springs and cam?
If runs great, and is not leaking anywhere, is there really any problem other than you are worried? I would not run 5w 20 in an old school pushrod 289.
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Originally Posted By: Lynniecee
Hopefully it will loosen up with more miles but was suspecting some tight clearances with 65 lbs oil pressure with hot engine and was wondering if 5w-20 oil might flow better and work better than 10w-30.
At what RPM with hot oil is the oil pressure at 65 PSI?
Using 5W-20 isn't going to make you have more oil volume flow unless the oil pump is in pressure relief with xXW-30, which I doubt it is. The positive displacement oil pump will just give a hair more oil pressure with xW-30 than with xW-20. I'd run a good non-synthetic 5W-30 and break the engine in relatively easy for the first 1000 miles. 5W-30 will pretty much work in about anything on the road for normal street driving.
Hopefully it will loosen up with more miles but was suspecting some tight clearances with 65 lbs oil pressure with hot engine and was wondering if 5w-20 oil might flow better and work better than 10w-30.
At what RPM with hot oil is the oil pressure at 65 PSI?
Using 5W-20 isn't going to make you have more oil volume flow unless the oil pump is in pressure relief with xXW-30, which I doubt it is. The positive displacement oil pump will just give a hair more oil pressure with xW-30 than with xW-20. I'd run a good non-synthetic 5W-30 and break the engine in relatively easy for the first 1000 miles. 5W-30 will pretty much work in about anything on the road for normal street driving.
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Lynniecee
Hopefully it will loosen up with more miles but was suspecting some tight clearances with 65 lbs oil pressure with hot engine and was wondering if 5w-20 oil might flow better and work better than 10w-30.
At what RPM with hot oil is the oil pressure at 65 PSI?
Using 5W-20 isn't going to make you have more oil volume flow unless the oil pump is in pressure relief with xXW-30, which I doubt it is. The positive displacement oil pump will just give a hair more oil pressure with xW-30 than with xW-20. I'd run a good non-synthetic 5W-30 and break the engine in relatively easy for the first 1000 miles. 5W-30 will pretty much work in about anything on the road for normal street driving.
~65psi is stock relief pressure for an SBF IIRC.
Originally Posted By: Lynniecee
Hopefully it will loosen up with more miles but was suspecting some tight clearances with 65 lbs oil pressure with hot engine and was wondering if 5w-20 oil might flow better and work better than 10w-30.
At what RPM with hot oil is the oil pressure at 65 PSI?
Using 5W-20 isn't going to make you have more oil volume flow unless the oil pump is in pressure relief with xXW-30, which I doubt it is. The positive displacement oil pump will just give a hair more oil pressure with xW-30 than with xW-20. I'd run a good non-synthetic 5W-30 and break the engine in relatively easy for the first 1000 miles. 5W-30 will pretty much work in about anything on the road for normal street driving.
~65psi is stock relief pressure for an SBF IIRC.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Lynniecee
Hopefully it will loosen up with more miles but was suspecting some tight clearances with 65 lbs oil pressure with hot engine and was wondering if 5w-20 oil might flow better and work better than 10w-30.
At what RPM with hot oil is the oil pressure at 65 PSI?
Using 5W-20 isn't going to make you have more oil volume flow unless the oil pump is in pressure relief with xXW-30, which I doubt it is. The positive displacement oil pump will just give a hair more oil pressure with xW-30 than with xW-20. I'd run a good non-synthetic 5W-30 and break the engine in relatively easy for the first 1000 miles. 5W-30 will pretty much work in about anything on the road for normal street driving.
~65psi is stock relief pressure for an SBF IIRC.
If so, then sounds like the pump is in relief at idle with hot oil ... went back and saw that he said oil pressure was 65 PSI at idle in the first post. I didn't see anywhere that he said the oil pump was aftermarket (ie, higher output than stock).
I would have to think that the re-builders should know what the rods and crank bearings measured out at.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Lynniecee
Hopefully it will loosen up with more miles but was suspecting some tight clearances with 65 lbs oil pressure with hot engine and was wondering if 5w-20 oil might flow better and work better than 10w-30.
At what RPM with hot oil is the oil pressure at 65 PSI?
Using 5W-20 isn't going to make you have more oil volume flow unless the oil pump is in pressure relief with xXW-30, which I doubt it is. The positive displacement oil pump will just give a hair more oil pressure with xW-30 than with xW-20. I'd run a good non-synthetic 5W-30 and break the engine in relatively easy for the first 1000 miles. 5W-30 will pretty much work in about anything on the road for normal street driving.
~65psi is stock relief pressure for an SBF IIRC.
If so, then sounds like the pump is in relief at idle with hot oil ... went back and saw that he said oil pressure was 65 PSI at idle in the first post. I didn't see anywhere that he said the oil pump was aftermarket (ie, higher output than stock).
I would have to think that the re-builders should know what the rods and crank bearings measured out at.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Lynniecee
Hopefully it will loosen up with more miles but was suspecting some tight clearances with 65 lbs oil pressure with hot engine and was wondering if 5w-20 oil might flow better and work better than 10w-30.
At what RPM with hot oil is the oil pressure at 65 PSI?
Using 5W-20 isn't going to make you have more oil volume flow unless the oil pump is in pressure relief with xXW-30, which I doubt it is. The positive displacement oil pump will just give a hair more oil pressure with xW-30 than with xW-20. I'd run a good non-synthetic 5W-30 and break the engine in relatively easy for the first 1000 miles. 5W-30 will pretty much work in about anything on the road for normal street driving.
~65psi is stock relief pressure for an SBF IIRC.
If so, then sounds like the pump is in relief at idle with hot oil ... went back and saw that he said oil pressure was 65 PSI at idle in the first post. I didn't see anywhere that he said the oil pump was aftermarket (ie, higher output than stock).
I would have to think that the re-builders should know what the rods and crank bearings measured out at.
Yet it seems, as per his post that they don't
I'd wager it's an HV pump, as that's pretty common to "upgrade" with rebuilds in both SBF and SBC scenes, despite the complete lack of need for them, at least in the SBF.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Lynniecee
Hopefully it will loosen up with more miles but was suspecting some tight clearances with 65 lbs oil pressure with hot engine and was wondering if 5w-20 oil might flow better and work better than 10w-30.
At what RPM with hot oil is the oil pressure at 65 PSI?
Using 5W-20 isn't going to make you have more oil volume flow unless the oil pump is in pressure relief with xXW-30, which I doubt it is. The positive displacement oil pump will just give a hair more oil pressure with xW-30 than with xW-20. I'd run a good non-synthetic 5W-30 and break the engine in relatively easy for the first 1000 miles. 5W-30 will pretty much work in about anything on the road for normal street driving.
~65psi is stock relief pressure for an SBF IIRC.
If so, then sounds like the pump is in relief at idle with hot oil ... went back and saw that he said oil pressure was 65 PSI at idle in the first post. I didn't see anywhere that he said the oil pump was aftermarket (ie, higher output than stock).
I would have to think that the re-builders should know what the rods and crank bearings measured out at.
Yet it seems, as per his post that they don't
I'd wager it's an HV pump, as that's pretty common to "upgrade" with rebuilds in both SBF and SBC scenes, despite the complete lack of need for them, at least in the SBF.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I'd wager it's an HV pump, as that's pretty common to "upgrade" with rebuilds in both SBF and SBC scenes, despite the complete lack of need for them, at least in the SBF.
We both know HV pump's are useless at higher PRM if the pump relief valve setting isn't set higher. It just gives max oil pressure all the time by kicking in at low RPM.
That said, it's probably not hurting the engine ... just feeding it lots of oil volume at low RPM. And switching to a xW-20 will just make it feed even more oil volume than it does with xW-30 because the relief valve will need more xW-20 flow to hit the pressure relief setting of the pump.
I'd wager it's an HV pump, as that's pretty common to "upgrade" with rebuilds in both SBF and SBC scenes, despite the complete lack of need for them, at least in the SBF.
We both know HV pump's are useless at higher PRM if the pump relief valve setting isn't set higher. It just gives max oil pressure all the time by kicking in at low RPM.
That said, it's probably not hurting the engine ... just feeding it lots of oil volume at low RPM. And switching to a xW-20 will just make it feed even more oil volume than it does with xW-30 because the relief valve will need more xW-20 flow to hit the pressure relief setting of the pump.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I'd wager it's an HV pump, as that's pretty common to "upgrade" with rebuilds in both SBF and SBC scenes, despite the complete lack of need for them, at least in the SBF.
We both know HV pump's are useless at higher PRM if the pump relief valve setting isn't set higher. It just gives max oil pressure all the time by kicking in at low RPM.
That said, it's probably not hurting the engine ... just feeding it lots of oil volume at low RPM. And switching to a xW-20 will just make it feed even more oil volume than it does with xW-30 because the relief valve will need more xW-20 flow to hit the relief setting of the pump.
It may end up hurting the gear on the distributor or cam though, by wearing it out faster. We both agree there's no benefit, but there are a few disadvantages. One specific to the SBF is the liquorice-sticking of the oil pump driveshaft if it isn't the hardened ARP one.
And yeah, given it appears to be on the relief now and subsequently dumping whatever volume it can't force through the engine out it, it'll just be able to get more unnecessary volume through the engine and put a bit less of it through the relief with a thinner oil. Not an improvement, LOL
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I'd wager it's an HV pump, as that's pretty common to "upgrade" with rebuilds in both SBF and SBC scenes, despite the complete lack of need for them, at least in the SBF.
We both know HV pump's are useless at higher PRM if the pump relief valve setting isn't set higher. It just gives max oil pressure all the time by kicking in at low RPM.
That said, it's probably not hurting the engine ... just feeding it lots of oil volume at low RPM. And switching to a xW-20 will just make it feed even more oil volume than it does with xW-30 because the relief valve will need more xW-20 flow to hit the relief setting of the pump.
It may end up hurting the gear on the distributor or cam though, by wearing it out faster. We both agree there's no benefit, but there are a few disadvantages. One specific to the SBF is the liquorice-sticking of the oil pump driveshaft if it isn't the hardened ARP one.
And yeah, given it appears to be on the relief now and subsequently dumping whatever volume it can't force through the engine out it, it'll just be able to get more unnecessary volume through the engine and put a bit less of it through the relief with a thinner oil. Not an improvement, LOL
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
It may end up hurting the gear on the distributor or cam though, by wearing it out faster. We both agree there's no benefit, but there are a few disadvantages. One specific to the SBF is the liquorice-sticking of the oil pump driveshaft if it isn't the hardened ARP one.
And yeah, given it appears to be on the relief now and subsequently dumping whatever volume it can't force through the engine out it, it'll just be able to get more unnecessary volume through the engine and put a bit less of it through the relief with a thinner oil. Not an improvement, LOL
Yep, xW-20 might reduce the stress on the pump just a little bit even if it stays in relief with the thinner oil. If someone put a HV pump in it, I'd sure hope they also beefed up the pump's drive shaft.
It may end up hurting the gear on the distributor or cam though, by wearing it out faster. We both agree there's no benefit, but there are a few disadvantages. One specific to the SBF is the liquorice-sticking of the oil pump driveshaft if it isn't the hardened ARP one.
And yeah, given it appears to be on the relief now and subsequently dumping whatever volume it can't force through the engine out it, it'll just be able to get more unnecessary volume through the engine and put a bit less of it through the relief with a thinner oil. Not an improvement, LOL
Yep, xW-20 might reduce the stress on the pump just a little bit even if it stays in relief with the thinner oil. If someone put a HV pump in it, I'd sure hope they also beefed up the pump's drive shaft.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
It may end up hurting the gear on the distributor or cam though, by wearing it out faster. We both agree there's no benefit, but there are a few disadvantages. One specific to the SBF is the liquorice-sticking of the oil pump driveshaft if it isn't the hardened ARP one.
And yeah, given it appears to be on the relief now and subsequently dumping whatever volume it can't force through the engine out it, it'll just be able to get more unnecessary volume through the engine and put a bit less of it through the relief with a thinner oil. Not an improvement, LOL
Yep, xW-20 might reduce the stress on the pump just a little bit even if it stays in relief with the thinner oil. If someone put a HV pump in it, I'd sure hope they also beefed up the pump's drive shaft.
Unfortunately, I know of many cases where that hasn't happened
And yeah, about the only benefit I can see here is that a lighter oil might stress the shaft a bit less. Ultimately, if this is confirmed to be the case, a stock pump should be swapped in.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
It may end up hurting the gear on the distributor or cam though, by wearing it out faster. We both agree there's no benefit, but there are a few disadvantages. One specific to the SBF is the liquorice-sticking of the oil pump driveshaft if it isn't the hardened ARP one.
And yeah, given it appears to be on the relief now and subsequently dumping whatever volume it can't force through the engine out it, it'll just be able to get more unnecessary volume through the engine and put a bit less of it through the relief with a thinner oil. Not an improvement, LOL
Yep, xW-20 might reduce the stress on the pump just a little bit even if it stays in relief with the thinner oil. If someone put a HV pump in it, I'd sure hope they also beefed up the pump's drive shaft.
Unfortunately, I know of many cases where that hasn't happened
And yeah, about the only benefit I can see here is that a lighter oil might stress the shaft a bit less. Ultimately, if this is confirmed to be the case, a stock pump should be swapped in.
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