Terrible luck with motorcycle chain longevity.

[SZR48207]

On my Triumph Tiger 800 I can't seem to get much life out of the chain drive system. Approx 4k miles ago I put on a new chain and sprocket set from JT Sprockets. Per factory guidelines I kept the chain tension at around 15mm slack and religiously lubed the chain. I avoided using solvents to clean the chain as I have read how this can seep past the x-rings and cause issues. Most cleanings were done using the little bit of solvent present in the lube and a few paper towels.

But here we are 4k miles later and I am seeing the "red dust of death" on the chain that indicates roller failure.

I typically ride in dry conditions and usually on paved roads. Once in a blue moon I'll hit up a gravel road but I don't do anything serious in the dirt.

I am thinking I'll buy a DID or AFAM chain and sprocket set in case the JT stuff just wasn't up to par, but I don't understand what I'm doing wrong.

During the life of this current chain I noticed that it seemed to "stretch" quite often and I would have to readjust the slack. Could my weight be an issue? It seems like most bikes are designed around a rider who weighs around 160lb but I'm over 200lb when loaded with gear.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

 

[jeff78]

Not familiar with the 'red dust of death' - do you mean rust? That's the only reddish dust I've ever seen on a chain.

4K miles is ridiculously short lived so it might just be the chain itself. Hadn't even realized JT Sprockets made chains and I would wonder if the quality is up to par. I use DID chains and they typically last me ~20K miles of street riding, give or take, on a bike with similar power and torque to yours.

Chain 'stretch' is caused by bushing and pin wear. Maybe the grease behind the O-rings (X-rings) isn't very good, or there isn't enough of it.

I'd spend a bit more for a quality chain. Even if it costs twice as much, it's well worth it if it lasts four to five times longer.


Edit note - how much has the chain actually stretched? It's not unusual for a new chain to stretch a bit and require a couple of adjustments earlier on in its life (you could consider it 'breaking in'), and then settle down a bit and not require adjustment for a while. Then more frequent adjustments again towards the end of its useful life. The manufacturer will generally have a maximum 'stretch' limit which is taken by measuring the length of the chain across a specified number of links. For example, the service manual for my bike with its 525 chain says the limit for 15 links is 239.3mm.

 

[SZR48207]

Hi Jeff

Yup it's red "dust" that coats the links of the chain, but there is no actual rust on the chain.

This isn't my pic, but it's an example. (mine isn't this bad yet)

Not sure on the actual stretch measurement, but I will see if I can use a caliper to measure it tomorrow.

 

[AlaskaMike]

What are you using for chain lube? Maybe you could consider a Scottoiler?

Hard to say--I've never seen anything like that. Even here in Alaska my bikes have never seen any rust in the chain or sprockets, no matter how much I ride in the rain. And I've abused mine pretty badly.

 

[ZeeOSix]

What's the manual say the chain slack should be? 15 mm seems kind of tight - could be wearing the chain faster. Every street bike I've ever had I go with 25 mm (1 inch) of slack and lube when the rollers start looking dry, and the chain hardly needs adjusting after initial break-in.

 

[SZR48207]

I've tried all sorts of lube. Most of the time it was Maxima chain wax or DuPont teflon, but I've also used motor oil or gear oil on occasion.

The factory manual says slack is 15-25mm, so I was always in that range when I adjusted the tensioners.

 

[carviewsonic]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
What's the manual say the chain slack should be? 15 mm seems kind of tight - could be wearing the chain faster. Every street bike I've ever had I go with 25 mm (1 inch) of slack and lube when the rollers start looking dry, and the chain hardly needs adjusting after initial break-in.


My thoughts as well.. I think the chain is being run too tight. The slack should be just that, with very little tension in that 15mm, rather than hard or firm to deflect. I also ran 25mm slack on my CBX chain, and got about 24k miles out of a chain and sprockets set. That was a heavy bike with decent power (in it's day), so not friendly to chains.

 

[02SE]

15mm sounds tight to me too. On the loose side is better than too tight. I've seen lots of short life-span chains, and damaged countershaft bearings and seals, and some wheel bearings, from chains run too tight. I run all three of my high-powered streetbikes towards the loose end at around 30mm of slack, with the chain at it's tightest. Which is usually with my weight compressing the rear suspension.

Of course different bikes have different chain geometry, so I'd try running the chain slack on the loose end of Triumph's specs, and see how that feels, and how the chains last.

On my dirtbikes I run the chains looser still, and never skimp on chain maintenance.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

Since you have changed sprockets and used an aftermarket brand, I would check to insure that the two sprockets are absolutely properly in line with each other.

Agree with the "looser better than tighter" approach to chain slack.

Try measuring slack with a rider on the bike (a buddy who weights about the same as you) loading up the suspension. See if that changes anything.

Agree with the "buy a known good brand of chain" advice.

Not sure what chain lube you are using, or how you are applying it.

Use a product specifically made for lubricating motorcycle chains from a known good manufacturer.
If O-ring chain, use a lube specifically made for O-ring motorcycle chains.
Lube O-ring chains when warm (go for a ride first).
Use a compressor or a can of computer compressed air to clean the chain on the bike. Its easier if you can rotate the back wheel.
Buy a clean 10~20mm (2~4/5") artists paint brush and use that to work the lube into the chain.
Wipe with a clean rag to remove excess.
Go for a low speed ride to get remaining loose lube to whip off the chain.
Give it another wipe with your rag.

Go riding. Repeat lube every 500 miles or so, or as directed by your bike manual or the lube product you choose.

 

[NGRhodes]

Can this be anything other than poor chain quality?

A quick google shows Tiger 800 to have 15mm to 25mm chain deflection.

 

[Panos]

15mm slack is tight as [censored]. The chain must be seriously noisy in operation and suffering.
I also recommend the use of oil only for lubrication.I ve had excellent results with monograde gear oil (cheap and not smelly). My cbr chain is lubricated from day one with gear oil only, and had to adjust the slack only once in 20.000km and is still in pristine condition, but the slack is set at 30mm or more.
My ninja has 47.000kms with an Adam xsr , lubed for the first about 15000kms with castrol chain oil spray and after that with gear oil only.

 

[Ducked]

If its rusty thats fairly clear indication that it isn't being lubricated enough. The one in that picture (not yours I know) looks very dry. Mis-alignment or excess tension will increase the wear.

The muck on my chains (non-O-ring, so more demanding of lubrication, but there's still potentially unlubricated metal-metal contact and wear between sprockets and rollers in an o-ring chain) has always looked iron-filing black.

I use oil, which is the Honda, and the general engineering recommendation in this application. Never tried specialist lubes and am sceptical of them, but chainsaw oil with tackifiers might have something going for it.

Scott-oiler is pricy, but there are various cheaper alternatives.

 

[Cujet]

O ring and X ring chains contain their own lubricant. Any externally applied lube does not lube the pins. The pins wear fairly slowly on quality chains. The external rollers do need some form of lube. I like the Bel-Ray super clean lube, as it does not attract dirt.

As always, avoid Chinese products.

DID has been producing quality motorcycle chains forever. And they make the chain with the highest tensile strength. Their super street ZVM X chain is the best money can buy.

 

[LoneRanger]

Too tight + sprocket alignment is my guess.

 

[beanoil]

I swear by the Scottoiler.
I always ran mine with 2 stroke lube, and had it on the lowest setting.
DID chains are very good quality, I always went for the proven o-ring style.
Maxima Chain Wax, dump that garbage.

 

[Chris142]

Make sure that you are adjusting it correctly. My stuff needs the suspension compressed so that the swing arm is in line with the frame. Then you adjust it to xxxmm of slop.

Also only use o-ring chains and don't lube them till the o-rings get sticky.

 

[Panzerman]

If your replacing the chain everytime you see " Red Death", there's your problem.
I don't think it's getting enough lube and I only replace the chains when I run out of adjustment.
I very seen sprockets wear faster than chains.
I think you're dwelling too much on the rust.
Oil it up and adjust as required, change when your out of adjustment.

 

[ccs368]

Abnormal chain wear strongly suggests that your motorcycle isn't set up ideally and perhaps reasons causing accelerated wear. You did touch upon it you mentioned 200# loaded with gear.

First of all you need to dial in both your front and rear sag with you on board. I won't get into details about it as there're so many articles on how to perform correctly. When properly set up it may feel very odd than what you're use to and may have to retrain your riding style to adapt to the new settings. For example, maybe you like the rear plush all this time and my thoughts is with you on board...there could be more than 2+ inches of rear sag. Why do we care?

Well what's happening is you've taken up a majority of the rear travel and the bike isn't even moving yet. When this happens, the chain slack is being consumed as the swingarm articulates through the pivot during riding. The problem their lies the effects of chain tension and mechanical wear thus ultimate failure of the rollers and spewing of the factory lubrication behind the seals when absorbing bumps over time. I guess in your case 4K worth of time.

The total up and down slack as measured from the center (i.e. between the counter sprocket and the rear sprocket) should be close to 1.25-1.50 inches (31-38mm). Check your Triumph manual to verify. 15mm is awfully tight. Now with you on board, have a friend check the slack and verify if chain still has sufficient movement. Have friend push up to see if the chain touches underneath the swingarm where the guards are. If yes, then it's a tad sloppy and can be tightened up. If no, then your very close to ideal chain slack. Now that you are leaning towards replacing driveline...you may need to check the condition of your counter sprocket teeth because if those teeth have incurred abnormal wear too, this will destroy a new chain regardless of what you adjust to. Also I agree with above posters that steel rear sprocket is better suited for normal street life. You're not trying to save weight or trying to create bling with an aluminum sprocket, right?

I have owned and infrequently replaced my motorcycles chains and don't really lube on a scheduled basis but have always gotten over 20K miles with no issues.

Best of luck.

 

[SZR48207]

Pic of the red dust from my chain. You can see how it's isolated to that pair of links, while the surrounding links look OK.

There were 2 additional link pairs that seemed to exhibit a similar issue, although to a lesser degree.

So I now wonder if this was just bad QC? With this being an x-ring chain, those rollers are sealed, so it's not like I neglected to put lube into those rollers (past the rings). And if 3 pairs of links have already worn to the point of blowing out rust, then this could also contribute to "stretch".

 

[NGRhodes]

What lube have you been using on the chain ?