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Philosophy of UOA's? #4843840
08/18/18 02:56 PM
08/18/18 02:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 20
West Side
ThugStyle Offline OP
ThugStyle  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 20
West Side
Hi
Just so we are all clear, what is the purpose of UOA's?
Some have said that they only use them to see if coolant or fuel (or something else) gets into the oil so that they can address any malfunctions. I think I saw an interview of two men from Shell/Pennzoil who said this much at some kind of race event for their car. The guy interviewing appeared to be an average Joe with a YouTube channel. I tried to find the link but could not. He was asking about seeing this and that metal % in the oil, and the two guys were like, "No, we don't really use it that way, we look for coolant or fuel to be in there so we can go fix any leaks."

If you think I'm lying about this, I guess you can use twitter or phone to contact Pennzoil.

So can someone explain why people turn to them for anything other than what those two guys described? And how exactly would you justify doing so?

It seems to me that UOA's would not really be accurate for metal present anyways because the heavier parts fall to the bottom of the oil, so you may get a higher or lower reading for something depending on if the oil sat for a while or not before collecting a sample. Like using the ladle at Souplantation to dig deep in the soup container.

Re: Philosophy of UOA's? [Re: ThugStyle] #4843853
08/18/18 03:03 PM
08/18/18 03:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,729
North Carolina
rooflessVW Offline
rooflessVW  Offline
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,729
North Carolina
People here use UOAs as tea leaves, and imagine you can them to divine the differences between oils and filters.

Really they're just a way to track trends. Establish a baseline and you'll know what is normal; when something is outside of normal it should prompt you to investigate, whether it be fuel, coolant trace, silicon, or wear metals.


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: Philosophy of UOA's? [Re: ThugStyle] #4843959
08/18/18 05:37 PM
08/18/18 05:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,288
Toronna
maxdustington Offline
maxdustington  Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,288
Toronna
1. To see how knackered high mileage, tired FF or old fluids are (fun)
2. You've been getting UOAs since your car was new. You're at 100k miles, all of the sudden silicon/lead/copper/iron/whatever element signals coolant consumption shoots up. You can take action and possibly save something
3. You want to extend OCIs on a specific oil and get a series of UOAs to determine how far you can run x oil.
4. You buy a car and the seller claims it was serviced and you want to find out.


03 Jetta AWP/09A 200k kms
Edge 0W40 + Mann 719/30
Re: Philosophy of UOA's? [Re: ThugStyle] #4843974
08/18/18 06:03 PM
08/18/18 06:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 196
NH
wdn Offline
wdn  Offline
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 196
NH
People fill their cars with oil that costs $1.78 a gallon after rebate, and then spend $28 for a lab test so they can change that oil less frequently.

Re: Philosophy of UOA's? [Re: wdn] #4844002
08/18/18 06:39 PM
08/18/18 06:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,319
texas
Burt Offline
Burt  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,319
texas
Originally Posted By: wdn
People fill their cars with oil that costs $1.78 a gallon after rebate, and then spend $28 for a lab test so they can change that oil less frequently.


Bingo.


2011 RX350 53k miles
2015 Fiesta SFE eco-boost 25k miles
Re: Philosophy of UOA's? [Re: rooflessVW] #4844057
08/18/18 08:09 PM
08/18/18 08:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,015
Virginia
bbhero Offline
bbhero  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,015
Virginia
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
People here use UOAs as tea leaves, and imagine you can them to divine the differences between oils and filters.

Really they're just a way to track trends. Establish a baseline and you'll know what is normal; when something is outside of normal it should prompt you to investigate, whether it be fuel, coolant trace, silicon, or wear metals.


^^^^^^^
Great post here. Summarised perfectly.


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Quaker State High Mileage 5w30 Purolator Boss 14610
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: Philosophy of UOA's? [Re: Burt] #4844058
08/18/18 08:10 PM
08/18/18 08:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,288
Toronna
maxdustington Offline
maxdustington  Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,288
Toronna
Originally Posted By: Burt
Originally Posted By: wdn
People fill their cars with oil that costs $1.78 a gallon after rebate, and then spend $28 for a lab test so they can change that oil less frequently.


Bingo.


Those are not the types who get UOAs. It usually tends to be people who are using specific oils for some reason: people who want long OCIs or people who track their cars enough to worry about blowing them up. The rebate hunters just want to find some cheap filters so they can do an OCI for $10 or less.


03 Jetta AWP/09A 200k kms
Edge 0W40 + Mann 719/30
Re: Philosophy of UOA's? [Re: ThugStyle] #4844077
08/18/18 08:36 PM
08/18/18 08:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 201
A Highway Near You
PiperOne Offline
PiperOne  Offline
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 201
A Highway Near You
I use them commercially. Tells me what's going on inside the engine (wear contaminants etc) and how well the oil is holding up (TBN,TAN,nitration and oxidation, plus viscosity retention). Money well spent ($17 each plus $5 for TAN testing every other sample).

For the average Joe who is following the OEM recommended service interval with a decent oil, I'd say they are a waste.


HDEO in Diesel Engines. No spark plugs here.
Re: Philosophy of UOA's? [Re: ThugStyle] #4844089
08/18/18 08:44 PM
08/18/18 08:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Florida
DONWATERS Offline
DONWATERS  Offline
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Florida
Most big rig fleets use them to tell when they need an oil change. Much cheaper than changing oil that still has life left. Larger shops do it on site.

Re: Philosophy of UOA's? [Re: ThugStyle] #4844148
08/18/18 09:47 PM
08/18/18 09:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 367
Washington, USA
Onug Offline
Onug  Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 367
Washington, USA
For me, honestly, theyíre for fun. I classify my level of Geek on this forum as a hobby so the wife doesnít ask why Iím getting another UOA for a vehicle Iíll never keep long enough to really leverage the historical data.

Having said that, there is a lot of great data here thatís ďboringĒ because plenty of people have paid for and posted UOAs that donít show anything exciting. A few UOAs or cut-open used oil filters for the same brand/oil gives a clue whatís possible, while a larger sample size is a true trend and more valuable.

Last edited by Onug; 08/18/18 09:50 PM.

2016 F-150 3.5L Ecoboost
Current Oil: Castrol Magnatec 5W-30 and Fram Ultra filter
Re: Philosophy of UOA's? [Re: wdn] #4844151
08/18/18 09:53 PM
08/18/18 09:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,986
Texas
4WD Offline
4WD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,986
Texas
Originally Posted By: wdn
People fill their cars with oil that costs $1.78 a gallon after rebate, and then spend $28 for a lab test so they can change that oil less frequently.


Awesome! LoL Ö

Re: Philosophy of UOA's? [Re: ThugStyle] #4844182
08/18/18 11:36 PM
08/18/18 11:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 193
N.A.
Onetor Offline
Onetor  Offline
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 193
N.A.
Imagine, we are paying these labs to track our data and sell it. The best studies are done by the customers that pay in the real world. UOA establishes a baseline and are fun!

Racing teams do not use them. They do physical measurements.

According to Dave at Redline, they are not accurate. I would ask Molekule?

I believe that you need hundreds of them for accuracy for statistical analysis.

Re: Philosophy of UOA's? [Re: wdn] #4844228
08/19/18 03:51 AM
08/19/18 03:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 566
West Ma.
rollinpete Offline
rollinpete  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 566
West Ma.
spank
Originally Posted By: wdn
People fill their cars with oil that costs $1.78 a gallon after rebate, and then spend $28 for a lab test so they can change that oil less frequently.


crackmeup


Pete.
97 Ford Expl.Sport 4.0 ohv 4wd 5spddrive184k miles
Last Change;
Penn. Plat. HM. 5w30
Fram xg8a, Fram CA8141

I like my oil (slippery).

Re: Philosophy of UOA's? [Re: Onetor] #4844995
08/19/18 11:25 PM
08/19/18 11:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 67
Long Isle ...
KnicksGiants Offline
KnicksGiants  Offline
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 67
Long Isle ...
Originally Posted By: Onetor
Imagine, we are paying these labs to track our data and sell it. The best studies are done by the customers that pay in the real world. UOA establishes a baseline and are fun!

Racing teams do not use them. They do physical measurements.

According to Dave at Redline, they are not accurate. I would ask Molekule?

I believe that you need hundreds of them for accuracy for statistical analysis.


Wouldn't they have everyone ever who did it,in data base

Re: Philosophy of UOA's? [Re: ThugStyle] #4845037
08/20/18 12:48 AM
08/20/18 12:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 696
Sask, Canada
BrianF Offline
BrianF  Offline
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 696
Sask, Canada
Much more of a benefit for the large vehicles/equipment. Look at the sump size for the large 4wd tractors or other farm equipment. Much easier to sample oil, test it, know its serviceability then to drain out gallons upon gallons of oil without knowing a thing.

I think it is a great idea and even down to the smallest scale I am working on. Numbers, data and facts are king. Its great to put it to the bench racing crowd that cheer on the Amsoil every 3000 miles, I need 5w40 for those Florida cold starts on my diesel, because it makes me sleep better and cheap insurance.


2006 Trailblazer LT. Castrol Edge with Fram Ultra.
2017 Ram 3500 SLT Megacab. Duron SHP 10w30 with Hastings LF608.
1993 GMC 1500. It has oil and still runs
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