Originally Posted By: MaximaGuy
Having said that WS is a crappy fluid because we have a lot of craaap on this forum.
Folks from all walks of life chime in their mindless nonsense based on hersay.
T-IV and WS are good fluids designed by thousands of mechanical and fluid engineers, RL/Amsoil cannot reenginer their knowledge to create a wonder soup.
You are on your own if you screw around in fluid & coolant & plugs.
WS is a crappy ATF, cheap sub-standard base stocks. It is a semi-synthetic. Group 2 and 3's have no place as a main base oil in an ATF fluid unless Grandma is driving it. Non turbo car engine oil is fine too if you don't want to start your car in 25-30 below weather here in Minnesota, where group 3's pour like thick honey in the cold winter mornings.
Also I don't go for the "by the manual" and "you think you are a better engineer then Toyota's" Dogma on auto forums. You get guys who think they are car mechanics and they post 3,000 posts and you find out they have never picked up a wrench in their life. And Amsoil and Redline is so far superior then WS clearly just by what basestocks they use, plus they have an aggressive add-pack, because they can. Toyota's WS ATF oil has all and more profit taken out of it and it's cheaper price, then Amsoil or Redline get on their oils. So you can't help but get a cheap oil. I found that out with our Rav 4 that was a lease return from a woman in Upstate New York. No soccer mom hauling, no hitch and in show room condition rear half like nothing was used or put in there since new. I drained the crap WS and it was burn't big time at 21,400 miles. I have done many Audi ATF flushes and this is right up there with some of my high mileage drain I did, But at 21,000 I was astonished how beat up this oil was. I got sick it smelled so bad, a clear sign it was cooked. So the women must of been a 2,000 lbs women to beat the crap out of this crap WS? I of course added an external ATF cooler and gee, spent an extra $70 more putting in Redline vs the crap WS. Gee, just a deal breaker there when the Rav4 is a $28,000 crossover. That is two tankfuls of gas, a deal breaker for quality ATF. An ATF that can actually take some heat without degrading.
Just because an OEM uses an oil doesn't mean SQUAT. Example: our group of Atlas Copco rotary screw air compressors that I have under my belt at work. We were burning up the OEM PAO ($550 for 5 gallons = $30 a Qt) in the first 800 hours of the 8,000 hour spec for the PAO. It was a "varnish creating machine" OEM said run the crap out of it, they thought I was nuts. Oil analysis said we had an major varnishing issue, MPC test showed a problem. Again your nuts, our engineers tested this oil, ((ME->"here we go")) "SO you think you know more then our engineers who spent hours testing our (ME->[censored]) oil?" I said "apparently I do know more "Or I then re worded it. I am ALLOWED to say their findings, where they can't" SO this OEM has their machines and my best interest in line. Nope. It's just all about profit, no machinery/customer best interest involved here. I started hunting for after market oil companies and found Summit Industrial Products a group 3, 4, and 5 industrial oil company. A Freudenberg/Kluber company.
They pushed me to a PAO with a small amount Ester oil and it came back hammered too. The VP said you are over thinking it, run the crap out of it. But all my testing said, nope, I am not over thinking it. Here and many other places I have found that no one cares about your stuff, even if they have to warranty it. It is always good enough, when clearly it is not. I then had to push to deny his "run the crap out of it" and go with their group 5 POE oil that solved out problems of the world's largest rotary screw air compressor company crap OEM oil that " their engineer's" think is good enough,and YOU would think it is good enough because their enginneer's said so.
I got a small "sign" saying "good job" from the local service manager on finding out their oil was crap, even though they fought me tooth an nail, like I was the problem and "why would the world's leading rotary screw air compressor company use [censored] oil?" When CLEARLY they do. I have ZERO varnishing now, that cripples these machines mid/long term. I can Now go 12,000 hrs if I wanted to, but choose to go 8,000 on this oil because their POE oil costs me $300 a 5 gallon pail. Through my research I have worked with 3 different oil enginner's and picked their brains on oil. So sorry, I have some idea that spending $70 more for an group 4 or group 5 oil then crap WS oil on a $28,000 crossover where the manufacture chose crap oil out of shear profit. Then at least dump the crap WS and pay the same price and use a full group 3 MaxLife ATF, and then you can have $70 more for 2 tankfuls of gas and have a ok ATF in your trans other then the crap WS semi-synthetic profit robber Toyota uses it for. Wink.
Also add the fact that also work with the "Godfather" of the Allison transmission, as my oil analysis company and have talked over many times ATF fluids and cocktailing type F into the mix. He is also one of my consultants I worked closely with. There is almost no risk when using high end quality ATFs that are approved for said manufacture.
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