IS there any advantage to using a SN+ oil over an SN in a DI non turbo engine? Ed
SN+ for Non Turbo?
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Since all Valvoline oils meet it, it's probably worth doing if the price is the same
wemay
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SN Plus is strictly to protect TGDi against LSPI. It offers no benefit or disadvantage for GDi.
Originally Posted By: Afton Chemical
What is different about API SN PLUS?
ILSAC have asked the industry to define this new category to provide pre-ignition protection for their latest TGDI designs by introducing the Ford LSPI test, under development for inclusion in GF-6, with a maximum limit of 5 pre-ignition events. This proposed pre-ignition limit is in line with the anticipated performance demands of the GF-6 category, but would need to be demonstrated in a registered test according to the requirements of the industry code. All other performance requirements within GF-5 PLUS are the same as current GF-5.
Originally Posted By: Afton Chemical
What is different about API SN PLUS?
ILSAC have asked the industry to define this new category to provide pre-ignition protection for their latest TGDI designs by introducing the Ford LSPI test, under development for inclusion in GF-6, with a maximum limit of 5 pre-ignition events. This proposed pre-ignition limit is in line with the anticipated performance demands of the GF-6 category, but would need to be demonstrated in a registered test according to the requirements of the industry code. All other performance requirements within GF-5 PLUS are the same as current GF-5.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
But SN Plus adds nothing to that end. It only addresses LSPI.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
LSPI is an abnormal combustion event in which the fuel-air mixture ignites before intended in the combination chamber, not on the valves or pistons themselves.
Here's a good link:
https://www.infineuminsight.com/insight/jun-2017/lspi-and-lubricant-auto-ignition
The rampant formulation changes have concentrated primarily on the reduction of Ca and Sodium additives. Increasing Moly and Mag as the solution. I haven't read where reducing deposits by whatever means, was part of reducing LSPI events. Although Noack percentages do seem to be lowering. Anything is possible i guess.
Here's a good link:
https://www.infineuminsight.com/insight/jun-2017/lspi-and-lubricant-auto-ignition
The rampant formulation changes have concentrated primarily on the reduction of Ca and Sodium additives. Increasing Moly and Mag as the solution. I haven't read where reducing deposits by whatever means, was part of reducing LSPI events. Although Noack percentages do seem to be lowering. Anything is possible i guess.
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https://www.oronite.com/products/lspi.asp
According to this article, one theory is that deposits can cause LSPI.
Quote:
Several theories exist to explain the mechanism of LSPI. One theory is centered on an oil droplet entering the combustion chamber from a crevice between the piston and cylinder wall. In this mechanism, the oil droplet mixes with fuel and auto-ignites. A second theory focuses on deposits as the ignition source for LSPI. Evidence has been shown for both mechanisms, and they are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
According to this article, one theory is that deposits can cause LSPI.
Quote:
Several theories exist to explain the mechanism of LSPI. One theory is centered on an oil droplet entering the combustion chamber from a crevice between the piston and cylinder wall. In this mechanism, the oil droplet mixes with fuel and auto-ignites. A second theory focuses on deposits as the ignition source for LSPI. Evidence has been shown for both mechanisms, and they are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
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wemay
Site Donor 2023
Yes, i did read where it was a theory as well. But as i just edited in my last post, the resulting reformulations (after many of these papers were published) have done nothing to reduce deposits. They targeted Calcium and Sodium reductions as droplets of these additives appeared to be the main pre-ignitors in the combination chamber. But also as i mentioned before...your opinion is as valid as mine. Anything is possible.
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Originally Posted By: wemay
Yes, i did read where it was a theory as well. But as i just edited in my last post, the resulting reformulations have done nothing to reduce deposits. They targeted Calcium and Sodium reductions as droplets of these additives appeared to be the main pre-ignitors in the combination chamber. But also as i mentioned before...your opinion is as valid as mine. Anything is possible.
Which is why in my GDI cars, I am running d1 G2 oils. Not taking any chances.
Yes, i did read where it was a theory as well. But as i just edited in my last post, the resulting reformulations have done nothing to reduce deposits. They targeted Calcium and Sodium reductions as droplets of these additives appeared to be the main pre-ignitors in the combination chamber. But also as i mentioned before...your opinion is as valid as mine. Anything is possible.
Which is why in my GDI cars, I am running d1 G2 oils. Not taking any chances.
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So SN+ oils have more moly? I wonder what the moly level is in PP SN+?
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Yup! dexos1Gen2 is a great choice. You can be assured the Noack is at most, 13% and usually much lower. d1G2 also assures the oil passed more stringent valvetrain wear tests to go along with TGDi protection, unlike the one-trick-pony SN Plus.
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Originally Posted By: wemay
Yup! dexos1Gen2 is a great choice. You can be assured the Noack is at most, 13% and usually much lower. d1G2 also assures the oil passed more stringent valvetrain wear tests to go along with TGDi protection, unlike the one-trick-pony SN Plus.
So SN is better than SN+?
Yup! dexos1Gen2 is a great choice. You can be assured the Noack is at most, 13% and usually much lower. d1G2 also assures the oil passed more stringent valvetrain wear tests to go along with TGDi protection, unlike the one-trick-pony SN Plus.
So SN is better than SN+?
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
So SN+ oils have more moly? I wonder what the moly level is in PP SN+?
Not necessarily. The oils that didn't use moly but instead relied on a sodium pkg have added moly and dropped sodium. PP always used moly, so additional moly might not be necessary. What all these oils seem to have done is drastically lowered Calcium and increased Magnesium.
So SN+ oils have more moly? I wonder what the moly level is in PP SN+?
Not necessarily. The oils that didn't use moly but instead relied on a sodium pkg have added moly and dropped sodium. PP always used moly, so additional moly might not be necessary. What all these oils seem to have done is drastically lowered Calcium and increased Magnesium.
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wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: wemay
Yup! dexos1Gen2 is a great choice. You can be assured the Noack is at most, 13% and usually much lower. d1G2 also assures the oil passed more stringent valvetrain wear tests to go along with TGDi protection, unlike the one-trick-pony SN Plus.
So SN is better than SN+?
SN Plus is a one-trick-pony when compared to d1G2 not SN. The only improvement SN Plus made over SN is protection against LSPI. Other than that, its just like any other SN oil. d1G2 adds more tests.
So, if you drive a Turbo Di vehicle, you're better off using an SN Plus oil versus just SN. If its a naturally aspirated vehicle, it won't make a difference.
As of right now, you will notice, other than Valvoline who state all their oils meet SN Plus, only blends and syns meet it.
Originally Posted By: wemay
Yup! dexos1Gen2 is a great choice. You can be assured the Noack is at most, 13% and usually much lower. d1G2 also assures the oil passed more stringent valvetrain wear tests to go along with TGDi protection, unlike the one-trick-pony SN Plus.
So SN is better than SN+?
SN Plus is a one-trick-pony when compared to d1G2 not SN. The only improvement SN Plus made over SN is protection against LSPI. Other than that, its just like any other SN oil. d1G2 adds more tests.
So, if you drive a Turbo Di vehicle, you're better off using an SN Plus oil versus just SN. If its a naturally aspirated vehicle, it won't make a difference.
As of right now, you will notice, other than Valvoline who state all their oils meet SN Plus, only blends and syns meet it.
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