Oil recommendations: 335d - DPF, EGR, SCR, Urea delete.

[slipstream444]

I recently deleted the DPF, Catalyst, EGRs and urea injection from my 2011 BMW 335d, and have the JR 2.8 tune. The car produces significantly more torque and horsepower, and I think it’s prudent to start using a new oil that is not compromised by emissions control longevity considerations. I understand the idea behind using an oil formulated with low sulfated ash with regard to protecting DPFs and catalyst systems, but I’m no longer constrained by those considerations and am more concerned with wear protection, sludge prevention, deposit control and the care and cooling of turbo bearings. From what I’ve read, the LL01 and LL04 specifications are the compromise of wear protection, reduction of sulfated ash combustion byproducts while still claiming extended drain intervals (on paper at least).

A lot of people in the forums are running Rotella T6 in similarly modified 335ds and X5 35ds - but the specs read more like it’s an old big truck synthetic engine oil, not a modern automotive Diesel engine oil. Not that T6 is a bad oil, because it’s not - however, I’m looking for better and more application appropriate options. While it’s great to see what others are running - I would greatly appreciate rationale and logic behind any recommendations. Thank you.

 

[CleverUserName]

Yes there is a compromise between a mid or low saps C3 oil, however some people on here think low saps aren’t inferior. My opinion and experience is different and I wouldn’t run any emissions system friendly oil in a diesel ever again.

Do you plan on using a 30 or 40 wt oil? I see you’re in Florida so winter rating isn’t a factor.

 

[Garak]

I'd not see a problem with an A3/B4, either. SA will be higher than an E7, E9 lubricant.

 

[dnewton3]

I ask this: How are you going to recognize "better"? For that matter, how do you even define "better"?

Is it lower wear metals? It should be. But to know is something is "better", you have to have an idea of your baseline starting point. Do you have any UOAs to show how the engine is running now? Without these, you'll have not one shred of real proof that any alternate lube is "better" (or worse) for your application.

First, run a few UOAs with the appropriate lube as spec'd by the OEM. Then, try some other brands/grades and UOA them as well. Compare/contrast the data to known averages, and keep in mind that variation is present in ANY process. Therefore, you can reasonably assess if the lubes are "normal" or "better" with macro data. You could do it with micro data, but you (and me, and most any other BITOGer here) don't have the time/money/patience to use that methodology, so macro data is the quick way to delineate choices.

Don't be like nearly everyone else here; don't bench race your way into the jug of lube.
Think about what you're doing, and then prove that you can make the right choice.

 

[Donald]

Use T6 and worry about other things in life. It will work well for your vehicle.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: slipstream444
I recently deleted the DPF, Catalyst, EGRs and urea injection from my 2011 BMW 335d, and have the JR 2.8 tune. The car produces significantly more torque and horsepower, and I think it’s prudent to start using a new oil that is not compromised by emissions control longevity considerations. I understand the idea behind using an oil formulated with low sulfated ash with regard to protecting DPFs and catalyst systems, but I’m no longer constrained by those considerations and am more concerned with wear protection, sludge prevention, deposit control and the care and cooling of turbo bearings. From what I’ve read, the LL01 and LL04 specifications are the compromise of wear protection, reduction of sulfated ash combustion byproducts while still claiming extended drain intervals (on paper at least).

A lot of people in the forums are running Rotella T6 in similarly modified 335ds and X5 35ds - but the specs read more like it’s an old big truck synthetic engine oil, not a modern automotive Diesel engine oil. Not that T6 is a bad oil, because it’s not - however, I’m looking for better and more application appropriate options. While it’s great to see what others are running - I would greatly appreciate rationale and logic behind any recommendations. Thank you.


LL04 oil is not "compromised" due to the OE emissions equipment. That being said you could use LL01 but you'll never know the difference. I would not use a 40w in that engine. There's simply no reason to as it'll just make the engine work a little harder and run a little hotter.

The very fact that you're running ULSD has more to do with the SAPS level of LL04 than anything else.

 

[loneryder]

Did you remove the DPF? EGR?

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted By: loneryder
Did you remove the DPF? EGR?

It's literally the title of the thread.

OP, run a 5W-40 HDEO for 5k changes and you'll do well.

 

[loneryder]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: loneryder
Did you remove the DPF? EGR?

It's literally the title of the thread.

OP, run a 5W-40 HDEO for 5k changes and you'll do well.


Delete and remove don't have the same meaning to me. You can delete something in the software with out physically removing it.

 

[m37charlie]

I have a deleted X35d . I am using up my D1 LE 5w30. After that I have 7 qt of M1 0w40. After that I will use D1SHC 5w40, I have about 150L of that.
Personally I think LL04 oil is compromised, I had some very low TBNs and high Fe numbers on UOAs which improved on the D1 LE even before deleting. Everything got much better after.

 

[1JZ_E46]

LL-01 will really only achieve longer drain intervals compared to LL-04. Both oils must pass exactly the same test sequence. That being said, LL-01 is easier to find stateside, so I would just use that. SAE grade doesn’t really matter. They are all right around 3.6 HTHS.

 

[slipstream444]

Well I thought my original post was detailed enough to highlight what I was asking for. By “better” I am asking for application specific recommendations. I believe I covered the application in detail as well. Clearly I am looking for an oil with chemistry unencumbered by emission control considerations, that will provide “better” wear protection, primary cooling, extended turbo life, deposit control, temp stability, etc. over the LL04 oil BMW dictates.
The car already suffered a premature failure of the large turbo (bearing) in part due to oil coking. I took the car to the dealership and always had the oil changed well before it was due (5,000-6,000 miles max) while it was under the CPO extended warranty - and let the car idle for 30-60 seconds before shutting it down. The turbo failure happened after the CPO warranty expired.

Now that the car produces approximately 400bhp and 600 lb ft of torque - it needs a “better” oil.

 

[1JZ_E46]

I wish you well in your search of “better” oil, whatever that may be. Euro manufacturer approvals are the toughest in the industry. If you want all out protection, your next step would be a racing specific oil with little detergents. Asking for “better” will get you nothing but opinions and heresay. Specs and approvals are all that we can concretely point at to say if an oil is “better” than another. Btw, your car sounds like a blast to drive. Never been in a fast Euro diesel car.

 

[Audios]

T6 or M1 5/40 TDT would be my choice for easily accessible off the shelf quality oils. Take off the plastic engine covers also, a lot of the gasser guys see a huge drop in head temps, almost 25 degrees in some cases.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: slipstream444
Well I thought my original post was detailed enough to highlight what I was asking for. By “better” I am asking for application specific recommendations. I believe I covered the application in detail as well. Clearly I am looking for an oil with chemistry unencumbered by emission control considerations, that will provide “better” wear protection, primary cooling, extended turbo life, deposit control, temp stability, etc. over the LL04 oil BMW dictates.
The car already suffered a premature failure of the large turbo (bearing) in part due to oil coking. I took the car to the dealership and always had the oil changed well before it was due (5,000-6,000 miles max) while it was under the CPO extended warranty - and let the car idle for 30-60 seconds before shutting it down. The turbo failure happened after the CPO warranty expired.

Now that the car produces approximately 400bhp and 600 lb ft of torque - it needs a “better” oil.

No it does not need better oil.
BMW LL04 oils are used on M57 with three turbos in X5 50d, 750d and 550d in Europe and on new quad turbo engines. On top of that, thousands of taxi drivers who made 400-500k in city driving will tell you that LL04 is good. Actually Castrol makes specific LL04 for European market that is far superior then any Euro oil we get here (0W30).
However, if you want more HTHS due to faster spooling turbos, use Castrol 0W40 LL01. LL01 is not emission compromise, it is ACEA A3/B3 B4.
Take into consideration that HTHS difference between Mobil1 5W30 ESP and Castrol 0W40 is around 6%. Considering you are in Pensacola I would use Castrol 0W40. Or you can use Mobil1 5W30 ESP, you will still be perfectly fine. Take into consideration that with thicker oil your engine temperature also goes up.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Audios
T6 or M1 5/40 TDT would be my choice for easily accessible off the shelf quality oils. Take off the plastic engine covers also, a lot of the gasser guys see a huge drop in head temps, almost 25 degrees in some cases.

On M57 plastic cover is not an issue and it is diesel. It dissipates heat much better. On M57 sound sponge under that cover can short circuit injector number 5 if there is a lot of moisture in it.
I would under all circumstances leave plastic cover as partition above engine on BMW is known to break and allow water to get to injectors. Plastic cover can mitigate that sometimes.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: slipstream444
Well I thought my original post was detailed enough to highlight what I was asking for. By “better” I am asking for application specific recommendations. I believe I covered the application in detail as well. Clearly I am looking for an oil with chemistry unencumbered by emission control considerations, that will provide “better” wear protection, primary cooling, extended turbo life, deposit control, temp stability, etc. over the LL04 oil BMW dictates.
The car already suffered a premature failure of the large turbo (bearing) in part due to oil coking. I took the car to the dealership and always had the oil changed well before it was due (5,000-6,000 miles max) while it was under the CPO extended warranty - and let the car idle for 30-60 seconds before shutting it down. The turbo failure happened after the CPO warranty expired.

Now that the car produces approximately 400bhp and 600 lb ft of torque - it needs a “better” oil.

What is other part? If it is "in part" than what is other reason?
As far as I know failure of large turbo on M57 is due to actuator that is sealed with turbo and whole assembly has to be replaced. If it is sludge etc. in your M57, trust me dealership did not use LL04, especially 5W30 TPT as that oil is really, really good.

 

[slipstream444]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by slipstream444
Well I thought my original post was detailed enough to highlight what I was asking for. By �better� I am asking for application specific recommendations. I believe I covered the application in detail as well. Clearly I am looking for an oil with chemistry unencumbered by emission control considerations, that will provide �better� wear protection, primary cooling, extended turbo life, deposit control, temp stability, etc. over the LL04 oil BMW dictates.
The car already suffered a premature failure of the large turbo (bearing) in part due to oil coking. I took the car to the dealership and always had the oil changed well before it was due (5,000-6,000 miles max) while it was under the CPO extended warranty - and let the car idle for 30-60 seconds before shutting it down. The turbo failure happened after the CPO warranty expired.

Now that the car produces approximately 400bhp and 600 lb ft of torque - it needs a �better� oil.

What is other part? If it is "in part" than what is other reason?
As far as I know failure of large turbo on M57 is due to actuator that is sealed with turbo and whole assembly has to be replaced. If it is sludge etc. in your M57, trust me dealership did not use LL04, especially 5W30 TPT as that oil is really, really good.


I dont know why you bothered to post, other than to read your own words. It's one of the things I find annoying about many forums: people who feel the need to chime in for no functional purpose other than to try to make themselves feel superior. It's the same with those who feel the need to correct grammar and/or spelling. Very annoying. This inevitably is accompanied by a total lack of anything that might contribute to the discussion or question posed. Congrats on that.

To answer your hollow inquiry: if I felt I needed to include the "other part", or if the "other part" added to or amplified my original question - I would have included it. As for your "really, really good" professional critique of the oil I wish to replace - perhaps you can expand with a little more specificity as to why you believe this to be true (actually support your argument)... or do we just "trust you" on that too?
Lastly - your claim that the dealership used the wrong oil is just as empty as the rest of your post. I personally know the mechanics/techs who worked on my car and watched them source and install the oil in person. It was the specified LL04 oil, every time - "trust me".

I would greatly appreciate it if you would refrain from posting unless you have something to legitimately contribute. That would be great. Thanks

 

[slipstream444]

I hate to have to be that way - but it's frustrating having to sift through people posting to reflect on themselves and actual information that answers the question I posed here. That's what these forums are for - right?

I was hoping that there were at least few people who might know if there are still specific additive package requirements needed for this engine even after all the emissions equipment has been removed from the car, whether those requirements were based on bearing metallurgy, combustion byproducts specific to a higher revving Diesel engine, engine seal chemistry - or whatever. Furthermore, what oil specifications would encompass theses requirements - and then which oils meet these requirements while helping protect this engine from the higher loads (due to the increased output over stock) - more effectively than the LL04 OEM oil.

And one last point to the subject of my previous post: there is a BMW maintenance bulletin for this engine specifically addressing premature turbo failure related to oil line coking.

 

[CleverUserName]

Originally Posted by slipstream444
I hate to have to be that way - but it's frustrating having to sift through people posting to reflect on themselves and actual information that answers the question I posed here. That's what these forums are for - right?

I was hoping that there were at least few people who might know if there are still specific additive package requirements needed for this engine even after all the emissions equipment has been removed from the car, whether those requirements were based on bearing metallurgy, combustion byproducts specific to a higher revving Diesel engine, engine seal chemistry - or whatever. Furthermore, what oil specifications would encompass theses requirements - and then which oils meet these requirements while helping protect this engine from the higher loads (due to the increased output over stock) - more effectively than the LL04 OEM oil.

And one last point to the subject of my previous post: there is a BMW maintenance bulletin for this engine specifically addressing premature turbo failure related to oil line coking.


Any oil with a higher Ester content and flashpoint, usually > 250c will resist coking better than most other synthetics.

I assume you want a 40wt diesel oil. You never answered my question regarding 30 or 40 wt in a previous post. A 40 wt will resist shear and heat better in extreme conditions, however it may not be necessary if your oil temps stay under control.

High Ester base oils typically have a density of ~ 0.9 and higher HTHS than other bases. Some Ester based 30 wts will actually have the HTHS of a 40 wt.

Redline 5w40, 15w40, and 5w30
Renewable lubricants CJ-4 HD SAE 30, 5w40 or 15w40
Rowe 0w40
Amsoil 0w40