Timing chain or belt ?

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Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Too bad there's no Gates Racing TB for this application.

The Gates Racing/RPM series belts are probably stronger than OE and might be a good choice if you're unlucky enough to have a stupid timing belt but lucky enough to have a Gates Racing belt available.

Looking at the Rock Auto listings for this Sonic, it appears the Enginetech belt is a reboxed Mitsuboshi. They make good belts. The Aisin kit also includes the Mitsuboshi TB.


If you magnify the photo , it does say Mitsuboshi and Made in U. S. A. . I am surprised

Thanks , :)
 
Both Gates and Dayco have been quietly outsourcing components to China for quite some time now. You might be okay with rubber stuff (belts, hoses and the like), but anything else would be a near certainty to be a Chinese clone.

I took a gamble on a Chinese made Gates water pump for my Pacifica when I did the timing belt recently. We'll see how it holds up-- getting to the water pump is fairly easy on this car, so only mild frustration and inconvenience if it doesn't last.
 
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
If it's a 2015 vehicle, I can't imagine you are anywhere close to the timing belt change interval which is usually in the neighborhood of 100k miles. How many miles are on it?
I don't know about the OP's car but I have a 2015 Altima here with 140k on it.
When I had my TDI I was doing at least 32k/year. It had a 100k rated belt but it was later derated to 90 or maybe 80k. Interference motor too.

I seem to have a slow leak on my 5S-FE and I suspect it's because I skimped and didn't do the crank/cam seals. Oops. Might have been low miles but plenty of age. Not looking forward to doing all the work all over again. Such is life, some gambles don't pay out.
 
Originally Posted By: 92saturnsl2
Both Gates and Dayco have been quietly outsourcing components to China for quite some time now. You might be okay with rubber stuff (belts, hoses and the like), but anything else would be a near certainty to be a Chinese clone.

I took a gamble on a Chinese made Gates water pump for my Pacifica when I did the timing belt recently. We'll see how it holds up-- getting to the water pump is fairly easy on this car, so only mild frustration and inconvenience if it doesn't last.


Thing is , if I bought AC Delco , it may be made in China also ? :-(
 
Originally Posted By: 92saturnsl2
Both Gates and Dayco have been quietly outsourcing components to China for quite some time now. You might be okay with rubber stuff (belts, hoses and the like), but anything else would be a near certainty to be a Chinese clone.

I took a gamble on a Chinese made Gates water pump for my Pacifica when I did the timing belt recently. We'll see how it holds up-- getting to the water pump is fairly easy on this car, so only mild frustration and inconvenience if it doesn't last.

For what it's worth (I know it's not the same engine nor the same pump) but the Gates Chinese water pump I once put on my Accord failed about a year after I installed it (leaking out the weep hole). When I bought an Aisin replacement the visual quality difference between the two pumps couln't be more striking.

Also once I got a Gates timing belt for my Sienna and it was nothing like the Mitsuboshi OEM belt. It was much thicker and wouldn't stay wrapped around the pulleys easily as I was trying to install it. More annoying was that the timing marks were slightly off and after about four tries to get it on properly I finally figured that out. I took it back to NAPA and got an OEM belt which lined up perfectly.

With a timing belt job there's no way I want to do it twice. As has already been mentioned the tensioner and idler pulley are just as important as the belt and the water pump (if you're installing that). No way I'm putting on cheap Chinese pulleys in that application. Those things get hot since they are generally directly bolted to the head or block, and if they fail they are taking everything else with them when they go.
 
Originally Posted By: WylieCoyote
Belts - I call them timebombs. It should be illegal to use them on interference engines.

Belts are perfectly fine and have many advantages over chains. Replace them and all related parts when called for and you'll never have any issues.
 
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted By: WylieCoyote
Belts - I call them timebombs. It should be illegal to use them on interference engines.

Belts are perfectly fine and have many advantages over chains. Replace them and all related parts when called for and you'll never have any issues.


Mitsubishi replaced the belt & pump on my '94 Eclipse. 20,000 miles later I traded it in, and the Nissan dealership called me about a week later to ask if my belt had a warranty. They'd sold it to a woman, and the belt broke the next day.

My parents sold their '85 Accord to our family dentist's son. It had about 65,000 miles on it. He left for college, and the belt broke at highway speed. Destroyed the top end.

I for one am glad they've been largely phased out.
 
[/quote]
Belts are perfectly fine and have many advantages over chains. Replace them and all related parts when called for and you'll never have any issues. [/quote]

That makes perfect sense , EXCEPT , it assumes the general population has something between their ears !

Consider the number of people that rarely , if ever , change the oil / filter .

Expecting those people to have a timing belt replaced when the owner's manual indicates , is too great a leap of faith . :-(
 
Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
Consider the number of people that rarely , if ever , change the oil / filter .

Expecting those people to have a timing belt replaced when the owner's manual indicates , is too great a leap of faith . :-(

Then those people will likewise have issues with a timing chain, I don't know of a better way to ruin one than that.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn

Then those people will likewise have issues with a timing chain, I don't know of a better way to ruin one than that.

I think it's easier to ruin a timing chain than a belt - neglecting OCIs will almost always do them in. It's not just with "problem child" engines like the Ford 4.0L OHC Cologne V6, older Mercedes V8s or the Nissan VQ3x V6s(those also are known for leaky oil gallery gaskets too). Any engine with a timing chain and a chain tensioner that's operated by engine oil pressure will have problems if simple maintenance is neglected.

But then again, there are countless Toyota 18/20/22Rs and Nissan KA24E/KA24DEs that have been thrashed and they still run, if not noisy.
 
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The arguments in favor of belts made sense, until manufacturers decided to make them so labor-intensive to replace.
 
On just about every modern V6 its an 1100 dollar job to do all the parts and pieces and the water pump " while you are in there".

Ill deal with the shearing oil that chains and sprockets create with better oil and slightly more frequent OCI's vs this cost every 60-100K.

There is a vibration penalty - and Ill pay it.

Chain rigs dont run silky smooth like belt rigs - they are good - see the nissan Vk's - but not the butter smooth at higher RPM the belt rigs are like say the late Honda J series.

UD
 
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A TB on an interference motor is a critical component as are the rollers & tensioner. On the sled, that includes the water pump as it's spun by the TB. I check ALL OF THESE everytime I replace the belt. Last time one of the rollers was shot (OEM) leading to the belt mistracking.

That was close.....
 
on the 1.8L its called for at 97500miles and the severe service schedule still says 97500 miles.

I'm surprised they dont list a time interval..

Some might take 20 years to go that long.....
 
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Originally Posted By: UncleDave
On just about every modern V6 its an 1100 dollar job to do all the parts and pieces and the water pump " while you are in there".

Ill deal with the shearing oil that chains and sprockets create with better oil and slightly more frequent OCI's vs this cost every 60-100K.

There is a vibration penalty - and Ill pay it.

Chain rigs dont run silky smooth like belt rigs - they are good - see the nissan Vk's - but not the butter smooth at higher RPM the belt rigs are like say the late Honda J series.

UD


Buying parts from RockAuto.com , looks like the parts to replace the Timing Belt and associated parts ( not including water / coolant pump ) are going to be less than $ 200 , DIY . This is every 97,500 miles .

A hassle , but not a huge cost for the number of miles involved .

I am pretty sure our Buick 3.8l is a chain drive , push rod engine . Anyone know if there is a recommended service interval for the chain & sprockets ?
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
on the 1.8L its called for at 97500miles and the severe service schedule still says 97500 miles.

I'm surprised they don't list a time interval..

Some might take 20 years to go that long.....


I am thinking severe service would be a lead footed teenager with a manual transmission .

I am anold man and drive like one .
 
Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
On just about every modern V6 its an 1100 dollar job to do all the parts and pieces and the water pump " while you are in there".

Ill deal with the shearing oil that chains and sprockets create with better oil and slightly more frequent OCI's vs this cost every 60-100K.

There is a vibration penalty - and Ill pay it.

Chain rigs dont run silky smooth like belt rigs - they are good - see the nissan Vk's - but not the butter smooth at higher RPM the belt rigs are like say the late Honda J series.

UD


Buying parts from RockAuto.com , looks like the parts to replace the Timing Belt and associated parts ( not including water / coolant pump ) are going to be less than $ 200 , DIY . This is every 97,500 miles .

A hassle , but not a huge cost for the number of miles involved .

I am pretty sure our Buick 3.8l is a chain drive , push rod engine . Anyone know if there is a recommended service interval for the chain & sprockets ?


There is the parts component of a job and I will only use OEM parts inside my engines not the "Chin-C" stuff I see come from Rock auto.

Then there is the labor component. I4's are comparatively easy. I won't do a V6 myself where I will a 4.

UD
 
The sad thing is , you buy genuine GM parts & when you receive them , the label may say Made in China ! :-(

Eric O of South Main Auto has a video of him rebuilding a transfer case & he goes to the trouble and delay of ordering GM parts . They arrive and at least some say Made in China .

He responds , " I could have gotten Chinese parts , days ago , at Advance Auto Parts . " .

When I was a youth , aftermarket parts were all Made in USA . Never a thought about it . Now , some of the reman stuff was not as good as new . But that was slightly different and at least they were reman in the USA .
 
Whomever does the TB change, always verify the cam timing is not a tooth-off. I experienced this after paying a trusted indy. The get up and go got up and went, particularly when climbing hills. I thought it had to do with the Summer heat. Drove it like that for years as I didn't think this was possible on an interference motor. It is. Once retimed, the fun & MPG was back.
 
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