Unfinished Basement / Garage Insulation

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gathermewool

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I just typed out a long post with tons of info and questions...that was just lost when Chrome glitched!

I want to replace the 6" unfaced batts of Fiber Glass insulation with R-30 RockWool. The FG is very loose (falling down in places - easy fix, I know). I would also like to do some sealing (spray foam, etc.)

Location: Ceiling (floor joists) of unfinished basement and garage (for now)

Size: ~550 ft^2 each

Garage Joists: Wood 2X8, 12" span

Basement Joists: Wood 2X8, 16" span

Sale: Lowe's has R-30 RockWool on-sale for:

1. 20% off 10 batts
2. 10% off (gift cards I just purchased - $270 for $300 worth)
-----Won't show up in the below final cost, but since I'll be using the GC's, it can be assumed 10% off
3. 10% off (mil discount)

Total for 10 batts R30 RockWool: $334.77

Thoughts?

Advice?

Recommendations?
 
How is water/moisture intrusion in the basement? I've been very leery of finished basements. Water tends to want to get in, and if not done right, water can get trapped.

Same for the garage. Can it breath properly? Was vapor barrier installed, or will it be installed as part of this?
 
My only experience with rock-wool is loose blown & I hate it . Is it a better insulation than fiberglass ?
 
I've got RW faced bats in my 60 year old house. I see no difference than using FG with the same facing.
 
Are your floor joists "open web" or "I" joists? I-joists are easier to friction fit rockwool batts. Basically when insulating a floor you don't want to allow easy pathways for air. Penetrations in the floor from HVAC, electrical and plumbing make it almost impossible.


Alternative: Insulate your basement walls. It should require less material and you can do it a variety of ways.


Basement walls:
-Rigid foam adhered against wall followed by framing with batt/loose fill and drywall (fire barrier for code compliance with regards to rigid foam).

-Drainage matt against wall followed by framing and open cell spray foam.

- If not intending to finish the basement and it has a dirt floor just lay out a 20 mil vapor barrier across the floor halfway up the wall then spray walls with closed cell spray foam.
 
I've been seeing in new construction homes with unfinished basements this strange insulation encased in plastic that looks like giant blankets. Looks efficient. Don't have any personal experience with it but it looks like a viable answer to your application in the basement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzLgy3V9png
 
Originally Posted By: supton
How is water/moisture intrusion in the basement? I've been very leery of finished basements. Water tends to want to get in, and if not done right, water can get trapped.

Same for the garage. Can it breath properly? Was vapor barrier installed, or will it be installed as part of this?


Basement:
I have a 70 pint/day dehumidifier in the finished and unfinished portion of the basement. Even on the rainiest, muggiest days it might fill the tank and auto-shutoff every day.

Garage:
No dehumidifier, but I've got two windows that stay cracked during warm weather (shut when it's cold). I figured that this was better than putting a dehumidifier in a potentially very leaky garage.

Neither:
Have water intrusion issues. We've only had a couple of moderate downpours and not water was visually evident anywhere.

Vapor Barrier:
During the inspection we had to re-mediate white, inactive mold found on the drywall in the laundry-room/pantry.
-----The contractor found that the existing vapor barrier was backwards, though I didn't know enough to get more details at the time. I'm guessing that means I can assume that the rest of the finished basement might be done incorrectly, too, if at all.

Additional Notes:
It's a raised ranch-style. The grade on one side drains toward and then around the house on one corner
-----One side of our basement is underground (upstairs is about even with ground level, then gradually lowers so that the garage window on this side is exposed, with a couple of feet to spare beneath it.
-----The other side is walk-out; there is a door on the finished and another on the unfinished portion (as well as a third where the garage is)


Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I've got RW faced bats in my 60 year old house. I see no difference than using FG with the same facing.


I'm in the beginning to middle stages of my research (for me, that's not necessarily close to finished) and it seems that you get a much better R-Value with RW, as compared to FG.

What do you mean, you see no difference? Are you saying that RW and FG will perform identically? If you've had RW for 60 years, what are you basing this on?

Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Are your floor joists "open web" or "I" joists? I-joists are easier to friction fit rockwool batts. Basically when insulating a floor you don't want to allow easy pathways for air. Penetrations in the floor from HVAC, electrical and plumbing make it almost impossible.


Alternative: Insulate your basement walls. It should require less material and you can do it a variety of ways.


Basement walls:
-Rigid foam adhered against wall followed by framing with batt/loose fill and drywall (fire barrier for code compliance with regards to rigid foam).

-Drainage matt against wall followed by framing and open cell spray foam.

- If not intending to finish the basement and it has a dirt floor just lay out a 20 mil vapor barrier across the floor halfway up the wall then spray walls with closed cell spray foam.


I-joists, I think. Basement is concrete - no dirt.

Luckily, no central HVAC (i.e., baseboard electric and window A/C units). I sealed up a few gaps that were exposed, but I have not moved or removed any of the existing FG insulations to check even 95% of the remaining potential leaky spots.


Alternative: This might make the most sense. I don't know how much we'll use our wood stove, since it's beneath the family room, with a single cast-iron vent/duct between the basement and 1st floor family room, but far away from the bedrooms; however, insulating the basement thoroughly might help allow more heat to reach the other side of the basement instead of leaching out.

As it was, the previous owners left the finished-to-unfinished door shut and spent their winters sitting in small chairs down in the basement, next to the stove. We won't be using the space similarly.

We don't intend to finish the unfinished portion - it's the perfect size for storage. Would it be best in this case to remove the all insulation on the floorboards and put up just blue closed-cell foam boards or leave the basement walls alone and beef up the floor joist insulation?

Originally Posted By: sloinker
I've been seeing in new construction homes with unfinished basements this strange insulation encased in plastic that looks like giant blankets. Looks efficient. Don't have any personal experience with it but it looks like a viable answer to your application in the basement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzLgy3V9png


I've come across this while looking around, but don't know anything about it. Maybe someone will chime in!

Thanks for sharing!
 
RW is nicer to cut, install, etc than FG. Highly recommend.

We did this sort of thing - floor joists in the cold section of our home (reduced radiator size for aesthetics when redoing space). I can’t say it hurt, but I don’t know it helped a ton.
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: supton
How is water/moisture intrusion in the basement? I've been very leery of finished basements. Water tends to want to get in, and if not done right, water can get trapped.

Same for the garage. Can it breath properly? Was vapor barrier installed, or will it be installed as part of this?


Basement:
I have a 70 pint/day dehumidifier in the finished and unfinished portion of the basement. Even on the rainiest, muggiest days it might fill the tank and auto-shutoff every day.

Garage:
No dehumidifier, but I've got two windows that stay cracked during warm weather (shut when it's cold). I figured that this was better than putting a dehumidifier in a potentially very leaky garage.

Neither:
Have water intrusion issues. We've only had a couple of moderate downpours and not water was visually evident anywhere.

Vapor Barrier:
During the inspection we had to re-mediate white, inactive mold found on the drywall in the laundry-room/pantry.
-----The contractor found that the existing vapor barrier was backwards, though I didn't know enough to get more details at the time. I'm guessing that means I can assume that the rest of the finished basement might be done incorrectly, too, if at all.

Additional Notes:
It's a raised ranch-style. The grade on one side drains toward and then around the house on one corner
-----One side of our basement is underground (upstairs is about even with ground level, then gradually lowers so that the garage window on this side is exposed, with a couple of feet to spare beneath it.
-----The other side is walk-out; there is a door on the finished and another on the unfinished portion (as well as a third where the garage is)


Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I've got RW faced bats in my 60 year old house. I see no difference than using FG with the same facing.


I'm in the beginning to middle stages of my research (for me, that's not necessarily close to finished) and it seems that you get a much better R-Value with RW, as compared to FG.

What do you mean, you see no difference? Are you saying that RW and FG will perform identically? If you've had RW for 60 years, what are you basing this on?

Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Are your floor joists "open web" or "I" joists? I-joists are easier to friction fit rockwool batts. Basically when insulating a floor you don't want to allow easy pathways for air. Penetrations in the floor from HVAC, electrical and plumbing make it almost impossible.


Alternative: Insulate your basement walls. It should require less material and you can do it a variety of ways.


Basement walls:
-Rigid foam adhered against wall followed by framing with batt/loose fill and drywall (fire barrier for code compliance with regards to rigid foam).

-Drainage matt against wall followed by framing and open cell spray foam.

- If not intending to finish the basement and it has a dirt floor just lay out a 20 mil vapor barrier across the floor halfway up the wall then spray walls with closed cell spray foam.


I-joists, I think. Basement is concrete - no dirt.

Luckily, no central HVAC (i.e., baseboard electric and window A/C units). I sealed up a few gaps that were exposed, but I have not moved or removed any of the existing FG insulations to check even 95% of the remaining potential leaky spots.


Alternative: This might make the most sense. I don't know how much we'll use our wood stove, since it's beneath the family room, with a single cast-iron vent/duct between the basement and 1st floor family room, but far away from the bedrooms; however, insulating the basement thoroughly might help allow more heat to reach the other side of the basement instead of leaching out.

As it was, the previous owners left the finished-to-unfinished door shut and spent their winters sitting in small chairs down in the basement, next to the stove. We won't be using the space similarly.

We don't intend to finish the unfinished portion - it's the perfect size for storage. Would it be best in this case to remove the all insulation on the floorboards and put up just blue closed-cell foam boards or leave the basement walls alone and beef up the floor joist insulation?

Originally Posted By: sloinker
I've been seeing in new construction homes with unfinished basements this strange insulation encased in plastic that looks like giant blankets. Looks efficient. Don't have any personal experience with it but it looks like a viable answer to your application in the basement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzLgy3V9png


I've come across this while looking around, but don't know anything about it. Maybe someone will chime in!

Thanks for sharing!



Post a question at Greenbuilding Advisor. There are a ton of tradespeople with decades of experience on this sort of thing.
 
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