All things equal...Mobil 1 versus pennzoil

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Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: irv
Not up here it isn't, and unlike you guys Stateside, our only choices are 4.4 ltr jugs of Mobil compared to 5 ltr jugs of Pennzoil.

Pricing is by luck and geography, even up here. Look at when Partsource or CT has the special on 4.4+1 L packages for M1. That's almost unbeatable. The difference between the best sale price on M1, PP, Castrol black bottle, and VSP probably would amortise out to $2 over a year's oil changes, if that. Also, it seems the 4.4 L jugs are on their way out.

Look at the distributor side of things in Canada. Imperial Oil seems to do a better job at pricing HDEOs when you buy direct, whereas Shell does a bit better with PCMOs.


You mean this $65.99 deal for one average 4.4 ltr jug plus another 1 ltr bottle where they throw in a T shirt?
http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/mobil-1-synthetic-motor-oil-4-4l-1l-bonus-0999420p.html#srp

No thanks, I'll stick with a 5 ltr jug of Pennzoil for $35 dollars.
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http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/pennzoil-platinum-syntheticengine-oil-5-l-0289323p.html#srp

Can't wait to see the prices Mobil when the 5 ltr jugs are introduced up here.
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We've had the 5L jugs up here before, can't recall if it was CT or Walmart, but they were there. Regarding the "deal", I think it's like $39.99 or something when it is on sale? Regular price, for all of them, is insane.
 
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: irv
Most on here know my personal thoughts with regards to Mobil oils so I won't get into all the reasons for that other than to say I think Mobil oils are overrated and overpriced.

Will your engine grenade using Mobil oils, I highly doubt it, but I honestly believe many oils exist out there, including Pennzoil, my oil of choice, that are not only cheaper to purchase, but are also a better product.







Well you blew that promise right off the bat and continue to do so.


What promise was that? I have added nothing new to what I wrote above.


Originally Posted By: 4WD
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: irv
Most on here know my personal thoughts with regards to Mobil oils so I won't get into all the reasons for that other than to say I think Mobil oils are overrated and overpriced.

Will your engine grenade using Mobil oils, I highly doubt it, but I honestly believe many oils exist out there, including Pennzoil, my oil of choice, that are not only cheaper to purchase, but are also a better product.







Well you blew that promise right off the bat and continue to do so.




I’ll add to that … Irv and two others on this site sound like nothing more than hacks every time the name Mobil comes up …
Not one ml of objectivity … no real knowledge … Bless OverKill and those who try to reason nicer than I will …
Why not move to Atlanta and work for CNN? They like consistent attacks on a single subject …

Do you feel smarter than so many here with this endless nonsense … ain’t working …


Sorry if my opinion bothers you so much, 4wd. It seems on here, with a few, if you give unfavorable reviews/opinions of something, it gets a bunch of panties in a knot, but yet some are allowed to spew their opinions even if themselves have nothing that can backup or prove otherwise to what is being said.

Also, I have noticed when having opinion or having a different viewpoint on things than someone else's, one can be labeled a hater if that goes against anyone else's narrative. You not find that odd?

How is what I wrote above answering the OP's question with my personal take on things so offensive to you?

Color me wrong, but I thought that is what this site was for? So people could come on here and share their experiences/reasons with regards to many things?

Personally, if I was you, 4wd, seeing how upsetting my posts are to you, I would just refrain from replying to them?

It's not my intent to get a bunch of panties in a knot just by giving my opinion, but I see some are pretty sensitive on here when certain brands of oil are discussed.
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Last edited:
Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: irv
Most on here know my personal thoughts with regards to Mobil oils so I won't get into all the reasons for that other than to say I think Mobil oils are overrated and overpriced.

Will your engine grenade using Mobil oils, I highly doubt it, but I honestly believe many oils exist out there, including Pennzoil, my oil of choice, that are not only cheaper to purchase, but are also a better product.







Well you blew that promise right off the bat and continue to do so.


What promise was that? I have added nothing new to what I wrote above.


Originally Posted By: 4WD
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: irv
Most on here know my personal thoughts with regards to Mobil oils so I won't get into all the reasons for that other than to say I think Mobil oils are overrated and overpriced.

Will your engine grenade using Mobil oils, I highly doubt it, but I honestly believe many oils exist out there, including Pennzoil, my oil of choice, that are not only cheaper to purchase, but are also a better product.







Well you blew that promise right off the bat and continue to do so.




I’ll add to that … Irv and two others on this site sound like nothing more than hacks every time the name Mobil comes up …
Not one ml of objectivity … no real knowledge … Bless OverKill and those who try to reason nicer than I will …
Why not move to Atlanta and work for CNN? They like consistent attacks on a single subject …

Do you feel smarter than so many here with this endless nonsense … ain’t working …


Sorry if my opinion bothers you so much, 4wd. It seems on here, with a few, if you give unfavorable reviews/opinions of something, it gets a bunch of panties in a knot, but yet some are allowed to spew their opinions even if themselves have nothing that can backup or prove otherwise to what is being said.

Also, I have noticed when having opinion or having a different viewpoint on things than someone else's, one can be labeled a hater if that goes against anyone else's narrative. You not find that odd?

How is what I wrote above answering the OP's question with my personal take on things so offensive to you?

Color me wrong, but I thought that is what this site was for? So people could come on here and share their experiences/reasons with regards to many things?

Personally, if I was you, 4wd, seeing how upsetting my posts are to you, I would just refrain from replying to them?

It's not my intent to get a bunch of panties in a knot just by giving my opinion, but I see some are pretty sensitive on here when certain brands of oil are discussed.
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LOL Irv you hit the nail on the head.
 
Not really … he’ll be back tomorrow with this same stuff …

Love it if you like … Again, I use both of these products and several more … this one only OR you are stupid products business looks way too much like the smoking tire garbage in the banner …and I buy that brand too … not exclusively …
What I have in common with you … is looking for several trustworthy brands when the time is right …
 
Code:
Rank BOQI DV-35 NOACK Date purchased Oil



1 81.9 4,316 9.90 2018/01/25 Genuine Nissan Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 Motor Oil

2 80.4 5,122 8.50 Amsoil PDS AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil 0W-20 (ASM)

3 78.2 4,182 10.70 2017/03/06 Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 dexos1

4 66.1 4,102 12.90 2018/01/24 Genuine Toyota Synthetic SAE 0W-20 (2015 formula)

5 59.0 5,929 10.00 2018/03/12 SuperTech High Mileage Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 Motor Oil

6 57.8 5,884 10.30 2017/03/06 Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic with PurePlus™ Technology SAE 0W-20 dexos1

7 54.9 5,958 10.70 2014/02/06 Quaker State Synthetic API SN, ILSAC GF-5, SAE 0W-20 motor oil

8 54.0 5,448 11.90 2015/04/01 Beck/Arnley Premium OE Fully Synthetic SAE 0W-20

9 54.0 5,949 10.90 2018/03/12 Royal Purple Synthetic Oil SAE 0W-20 High Performance Motor Oil

10 53.0 5,006 13.20 2015/12/28 SuperS SuperSyn Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20

11 51.9 5,819 11.60 2017/03/06 Valvoline Full Synthetic SYNPower SAE 0W-20 dexos1

12 51.7 5,642 12.00 2018/01/24 ACDelco Synthetic SAE 0W-20

13 51.2 5,342 12.80 2017/12/09 Honda Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 Motor Oil

14 49.8 5,537 12.70 2015/12/28 Castrol Edge Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 dexos1

15 49.5 5,996 11.80 2017/03/07 O'Reilly SAE 0W-20 Full Synthetic dexos1 Motor Oil

16 48.6 5,451 13.20 2014/08/14 Castrol Edge Synthetic Motor Oil API SN, ILSAC GF-5, SAE 0W-20 motor oil

18 47.6 5,658 13.00 2015/07/27 STARFIRE SAE 0W-20 Full Synthetic dexos1

19 47.2 5,657 13.10 2014/02/07 Pronto Supreme API SN, ILSAC GF-5, SAE 0W-20 motor oil

20 47.2 4,981 14.90 2014/08/25 Starfire Motor Oil API SN, ILSAC GF-5, SAE 0W-20 motor oil

21 46.2 5,786 13.10 2015/12/28 ProLine Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 dexos1

22 44.9 5,647 13.80 2017/12/09 i-Sint XL 4AM Synthetic Engine Oil SAE 0W-20

23 43.5 6,138 13.10 2017/03/06 STP SYN Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 dexos1

24 43.1 5,723 14.20 2016/01/25 AMSOIL Synthetic OE SAE 0W-20 Motor Oil

25 41.8 5,814 14.40 2014/02/07 MAG1 API SN, ILSAC GF-5, SAE 0W-20 motor oil

26 39.7 6,163 14.30 2014/08/11 Federated Motor Oil API SN, ILSAC GF-5, SAE 0W-20 motor oil

My take:

* Need xW-30 only for racing or towing, go with 0W-20 otherwise for everyday driving
* 0W-20 usually has better base oil than 5W-20 because of harder-to-simultaneously meet NOACK and CCS specs
* Most 0W-20's have excellent base oil except for some no-name brands
* Genuine Nissan has the best base oil (GTL), very cheap on eBay, but lacks moly and Mg (it's non-dexos1-Gen-2)
* TGMO (2015 formula) is great, has 800 ppm moly, but formula changed again in 2017
* Super Tech High-Mileage is also mostly GTL, better than Pennzoil Platinum, and it's by far the cheapest, is dexos1 Gen 2, and has no shortcomings
* M1 is near the top of for base-oil quality, but it tends to contain ester, which tends to increase wear (iron count) because of additive fighting for the surfaces, M1 EP and AP probably have even more ester, which is even more concern; however, some here will strongly defend esters in M1
* Pennzoil Platinum "PurePlus" GTL-containing oil was easily beaten by three-other no-ad GTL-containing oils, meaning the latter oils may have more or better GTL
* Formulas keep changing, especially with the API base-oil interchangeability guidelines, meaning no guarantee of consistency
* Any oil that meets the latest specs (SN PLUS and dexos1 Gen 2) will do just fine; #1 Genuine Nissan sells for $3.80 and #5 Super Tech High-Mileage sells for $3.30
* Oil-Club Russia verified that TGMO (2015) is GTL (but not strongly distinguished from VHVI Group III) through FTIR, which verified the conclusion by the BOQI calculation, showing the validity of the latter method

Note: Older formulations of the same oil were removed from the lest.

List of 0W-20 oils by base-oil-quality index (BOQI): 2018
 
Originally Posted By: irv
You mean this $65.99 deal for one average 4.4 ltr jug plus another 1 ltr bottle where they throw in a T shirt?

No, not that fiasco. I said a special, not a fiasco.
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At least once a year, they do the 4.4+1 L (no shirt) for just under $30, last time I remember seeing it. In fact, I almost bought a bunch because I was running low on Delvac 1, but not low enough to have bothered, but it worked out to be actually a hair cheaper than Delvac 1 from the distributor. Canadian Tire and Partsource do on occasion have that mess you pointed out, and sometimes do the same thing with Castrol. When Partsource does it at the low price, it's sometimes only for three days or a week out of their month long special. I believe they did it somewhere over the Christmas season and sometime in the spring. Spring 2017 was the one I looked long and hard at.

I'm a nutcase about container sizes, and 4.4 L and 4.4 L + 1 L are both kind of obnoxious when it comes to my sump size. 4 L Delvac 1 containers weren't exactly a picnic either. My American Rotella 3.785 L containers are a bit of a pain, but Shell sent me a total amount that divides up very nicely, with no leftovers in the end, and the Canadian size is 5 L, which is just about perfect.

Now, in answer to your original question, and with things not being exactly equal, and that being the point, I have (and will) by based upon container size. As it stands right now, the Pennzoil and Quaker State 5 litre (or 4.73 L WM specials) are conveniently sized. If I had a 4.4 L or 4.5 L sump with no oil consumption, both Imperial Oil and Wakefield market containers that size. Now, why Wakefield has black bottle Castrol in 5 L jugs and gold bottle Castrol in 4.4 L jugs, I'll never know.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
* Genuine Nissan has the best base oil (GTL), very cheap on eBay, but lacks moly and Mg (it's non-dexos1-Gen-2)

For the sake of interest, not even sure it exists up here. Mobil simply provides service fill for all Infiniti/Nissan dealers, using actual Mobil branded product. How long the Renault Group will continue down the path with Mobil is another matter altogether.
 
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Originally Posted By: irv
Good luck, 2015PSD, he's got logic backing this up.
Prove me wrong.
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Unfortunately for you there far too much anecdotal evidence that speaks to what you are trying to say--that constantly changing oil brands causes increased wear. In your case, you need to prove that you are right, not that everyone else is wrong.

As I said the military changes oil brands with every contract and they are harder on and run their equipment far longer than any of us. Combine that with the BITOG faithful who do the same without increased wear and the anecdotal evidence continues. How are you measuring that increased wear anyway?

Show me the data supporting your conclusion and I will be happy to say I am wrong.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
* Genuine Nissan has the best base oil (GTL), very cheap on eBay, but lacks moly and Mg (it's non-dexos1-Gen-2)

For the sake of interest, not even sure it exists up here. Mobil simply provides service fill for all Infiniti/Nissan dealers, using actual Mobil branded product. How long the Renault Group will continue down the path with Mobil is another matter altogether.

Of course, Genuine Nissan Motor Oil is made by ExxonMobil.

I just looked up the Mobil Super Synthetic 0W-20 MSDS: Very similar to Nissan Genuine Motor Oil, except 50 - 60% GTL claimed vs. 60 - 70% claimed, respectively.

Now, given how unreliable these MSDS's are and having the flexibility of changing the base oil on the run while conforming to the API base-oil interchangeability guidelines, Mobil Super Synthetic and Nissan Genuine can be more or less the same oil, especially with the add packs being similar (no moly but titanium).

Then, the formulations keep changing every year...

Nevertheless, it's great that GTL is now finding its way into the budget oils, making them outperform the performance oils.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Nevertheless, it's great that GTL is now finding its way into the budget oils, making them outperform the performance oils.
Based upon what and using what test criteria?
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan

I just looked up the Mobil Super Synthetic 0W-20 MSDS: Very similar to Nissan Genuine Motor Oil, except 50 - 60% GTL claimed vs. 60 - 70% claimed, respectively.

Now, given how unreliable these MSDS's are and having the flexibility of changing the base oil on the run while conforming to the API base-oil interchangeability guidelines, Mobil Super Synthetic and Nissan Genuine can be more or less the same oil, especially with the add packs being similar (no moly but titanium).


So it's the differences that make them more likely to be the same.

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Nevertheless, it's great that GTL is now finding its way into the budget oils, making them outperform the performance oils.


Outperform in what way ?
API, SAE and OEM performance testing ?

or BOQI ?

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
* Pennzoil Platinum "PurePlus" GTL-containing oil was easily beaten by three-other no-ad GTL-containing oils, meaning the latter oils may have more or better GTL


I take this to mean that the oils were basestock blends sans additive pack...
 
Originally Posted By: BTLew81
Deciding between these two lines for my new accord 2.0t. Either in 0w20, 5w30, or the mobil1 are 0w30. Probably stepping up to a 30. All things equal, is there any advantage either holds? Both dexos gen 2, which I want.

Thanks in advance.


All things being equal, they'll be exactly the same. You would notice differences in performance if there were differences between the fluids but if all things are equal there can be no differences..
 
All things being equal? Here's a certifiable genuine reason for my preference...

-Mobil1 uses aluminum seals (big plus for me)
-SOPUS? Nope

The oils themselves are terrific from both companies.
 
My $.02

I realize that sound levels may not be good indicators of anything important, but i base my oil selection on how the engine sounds and whether it uses oil.

Penn and Mobil oils will meet your engine requirements, so pick a brand and try it. Note how your engine sounds right after the OC (at startup and at temp), as well as about 3-4k later. Note whether the engine uses any oil during the OCI. After 5k miles try the other brand. Note the same things for this oil. Use a dB meter if you want to be more objective, but I dont bother. At that point you can decide between Penn or Mobil, or try another brand. My results are below.

Cadillac (5w30)
Mobil 1 and Royal Purple worked fine but Pennzoil Platinum made it run quieter than RP or Mobil. Used a lot of oil for all three brands. PennPlat High Mileage dramatically reduced oil consumption (from 1 qt/1k to .5 qt/3k). Therefore, PPHM is the best oil I have tried in this car, based on qualitative sound levels and oil consumption.

Odyssey (0w20)
Pennzoil Platinum and Valvoline syn+Maxlife were quieter than Mobil 1 or Royal Purple. This engine did not use any oil with any of these brands. Therefore, PennPlat and Valv syn HM are the best i have tried in this car, based on qualitative sound levels.
 
Originally Posted By: RyanY
My $.02

I realize that sound levels may not be good indicators of anything important, but i base my oil selection on how the engine sounds and whether it uses oil.

Penn and Mobil oils will meet your engine requirements, so pick a brand and try it. Note how your engine sounds right after the OC (at startup and at temp), as well as about 3-4k later. Note whether the engine uses any oil during the OCI. After 5k miles try the other brand. Note the same things for this oil. Use a dB meter if you want to be more objective, but I dont bother. At that point you can decide between Penn or Mobil, or try another brand. My results are below.

Cadillac (5w30)
Mobil 1 and Royal Purple worked fine but Pennzoil Platinum made it run quieter than RP or Mobil. Used a lot of oil for all three brands. PennPlat High Mileage dramatically reduced oil consumption (from 1 qt/1k to .5 qt/3k). Therefore, PPHM is the best oil I have tried in this car, based on qualitative sound levels and oil consumption.

Odyssey (0w20)
Pennzoil Platinum and Valvoline syn+Maxlife were quieter than Mobil 1 or Royal Purple. This engine did not use any oil with any of these brands. Therefore, PennPlat and Valv syn HM are the best i have tried in this car, based on qualitative sound levels.


I found the same thing, Ryan, when I switched to Pennzoil. Of course, from a few on here, I've been told I have rocks in my head but those were my findings nonetheless.

I also found, when researching UOAs and VOAs, the the majority of UOAs I read where Mobil oils were being used had, on average higher wear metals in their UOAs compared to Pennzoil.

I don't know about you, but it just makes sense to me. Quieter running engine = lower wear metal counts and noisier running engines = increased/higher wear metal counts?

I know some on here say wear metal counts mean nothing but I find it humorous, when reading UOAs from various companies, all comment on wear metal levels whether good or bad. I wonder why that is if they don't mean anything?
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Also, since I am just hack/hater, supposedly, and not being one to get into all the data, info, scientific whatever, which is inconclusive and unreliable most times it seems, these are just the things I go by/use when making my oil purchase decisions.
 
Originally Posted By: wemay
All things being equal? Here's a certifiable genuine reason for my preference...

-Mobil1 uses aluminum seals (big plus for me)
-SOPUS? Nope

The oils themselves are terrific from both companies.




Good point. I will not buy a oil without a seal. Too many two legged varmints out there.
 
Originally Posted By: irv
I know some on here say wear metal counts mean nothing but I find it humorous, when reading UOAs from various companies, all comment on wear metal levels whether good or bad. I wonder why that is if they don't mean anything?
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Definitely not beating you up, but consider this--when you dump the factory fill is there not lots of metal that sparkles in the sunlight? I have to think that you would agree, but have you seen the UOAs for FF?

No way the PPM count is high enough to reflect the count of metal that is in the oil. Why? Most of the metal is outside the range a UOA can capture (either smaller or larger). This is one if the main reasons that UOAs cannot be used to predict wear. I personally have not seen higher wear metals using M1 versus Pennzoil. Look for my UOAs on my 2010 FX4 and you will see what I mean. Of course, YMMV!
 
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