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Re: All things equal...Mobil 1 versus pennzoil [Re: BTLew81] #4838662
08/13/18 01:00 AM
08/13/18 01:00 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 553
Toronto, Canada
HKPolice Offline
HKPolice  Offline

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 553
Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: irv


Good luck, 2015PSD, he's got logic backing this up. crackmeup


Prove me wrong. crackmeup coffee

Re: All things equal...Mobil 1 versus pennzoil [Re: BTLew81] #4838668
08/13/18 01:31 AM
08/13/18 01:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,442
Los Angeles, California
Gokhan Offline
Gokhan  Offline

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,442
Los Angeles, California
Code:
Rank	BOQI	DV-35	NOACK	Date purchased	Oil

1	81.9	4,316	9.90	2018/01/25	Genuine Nissan Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 Motor Oil
2	80.4	5,122	8.50	Amsoil PDS	AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil 0W-20 (ASM)
3	78.2	4,182	10.70	2017/03/06	Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 dexos1
4	66.1	4,102	12.90	2018/01/24	Genuine Toyota Synthetic SAE 0W-20 (2015 formula)
5	59.0	5,929	10.00	2018/03/12	SuperTech High Mileage Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 Motor Oil
6	57.8	5,884	10.30	2017/03/06	Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic with PurePlus™ Technology SAE 0W-20 dexos1
7	54.9	5,958	10.70	2014/02/06	Quaker State Synthetic API SN, ILSAC GF-5, SAE 0W-20 motor oil
8	54.0	5,448	11.90	2015/04/01	Beck/Arnley Premium OE Fully Synthetic SAE 0W-20
9	54.0	5,949	10.90	2018/03/12	Royal Purple Synthetic Oil SAE 0W-20 High Performance Motor Oil
10	53.0	5,006	13.20	2015/12/28	SuperS SuperSyn Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20
11	51.9	5,819	11.60	2017/03/06	Valvoline Full Synthetic SYNPower SAE 0W-20 dexos1
12	51.7	5,642	12.00	2018/01/24	ACDelco Synthetic SAE 0W-20
13	51.2	5,342	12.80	2017/12/09	Honda Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 Motor Oil
14	49.8	5,537	12.70	2015/12/28	Castrol Edge Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 dexos1
15	49.5	5,996	11.80	2017/03/07	O'Reilly SAE 0W-20 Full Synthetic dexos1 Motor Oil
16	48.6	5,451	13.20	2014/08/14	Castrol Edge Synthetic Motor Oil API SN, ILSAC GF-5, SAE 0W-20 motor oil
18	47.6	5,658	13.00	2015/07/27	STARFIRE SAE 0W-20 Full Synthetic dexos1
19	47.2	5,657	13.10	2014/02/07	Pronto Supreme API SN, ILSAC GF-5, SAE 0W-20 motor oil
20	47.2	4,981	14.90	2014/08/25	Starfire Motor Oil API SN, ILSAC GF-5, SAE 0W-20 motor oil
21	46.2	5,786	13.10	2015/12/28	ProLine Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 dexos1
22	44.9	5,647	13.80	2017/12/09	i-Sint XL 4AM Synthetic Engine Oil SAE 0W-20
23	43.5	6,138	13.10	2017/03/06	STP SYN Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 dexos1
24	43.1	5,723	14.20	2016/01/25	AMSOIL Synthetic OE SAE 0W-20 Motor Oil
25	41.8	5,814	14.40	2014/02/07	MAG1 API SN, ILSAC GF-5, SAE 0W-20 motor oil
26	39.7	6,163	14.30	2014/08/11	Federated Motor Oil API SN, ILSAC GF-5, SAE 0W-20 motor oil

My take:

* Need xW-30 only for racing or towing, go with 0W-20 otherwise for everyday driving
* 0W-20 usually has better base oil than 5W-20 because of harder-to-simultaneously meet NOACK and CCS specs
* Most 0W-20's have excellent base oil except for some no-name brands
* Genuine Nissan has the best base oil (GTL), very cheap on eBay, but lacks moly and Mg (it's non-dexos1-Gen-2)
* TGMO (2015 formula) is great, has 800 ppm moly, but formula changed again in 2017
* Super Tech High-Mileage is also mostly GTL, better than Pennzoil Platinum, and it's by far the cheapest, is dexos1 Gen 2, and has no shortcomings
* M1 is near the top of for base-oil quality, but it tends to contain ester, which tends to increase wear (iron count) because of additive fighting for the surfaces, M1 EP and AP probably have even more ester, which is even more concern; however, some here will strongly defend esters in M1
* Pennzoil Platinum "PurePlus" GTL-containing oil was easily beaten by three-other no-ad GTL-containing oils, meaning the latter oils may have more or better GTL
* Formulas keep changing, especially with the API base-oil interchangeability guidelines, meaning no guarantee of consistency
* Any oil that meets the latest specs (SN PLUS and dexos1 Gen 2) will do just fine; #1 Genuine Nissan sells for $3.80 and #5 Super Tech High-Mileage sells for $3.30
* Oil-Club Russia verified that TGMO (2015) is GTL (but not strongly distinguished from VHVI Group III) through FTIR, which verified the conclusion by the BOQI calculation, showing the validity of the latter method

Note: Older formulations of the same oil were removed from the lest.

List of 0W-20 oils by base-oil-quality index (BOQI): 2018


1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 276,000 M
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20 SN PLUS (PAO-and-AN-based)
Fram Ultra XG3600 filter (full synthetic), 90430-12031 drain gasket (rubber on aluminum)
Re: All things equal...Mobil 1 versus pennzoil [Re: irv] #4838670
08/13/18 01:35 AM
08/13/18 01:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 27,776
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 27,776
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: irv
You mean this $65.99 deal for one average 4.4 ltr jug plus another 1 ltr bottle where they throw in a T shirt?

No, not that fiasco. I said a special, not a fiasco. wink At least once a year, they do the 4.4+1 L (no shirt) for just under $30, last time I remember seeing it. In fact, I almost bought a bunch because I was running low on Delvac 1, but not low enough to have bothered, but it worked out to be actually a hair cheaper than Delvac 1 from the distributor. Canadian Tire and Partsource do on occasion have that mess you pointed out, and sometimes do the same thing with Castrol. When Partsource does it at the low price, it's sometimes only for three days or a week out of their month long special. I believe they did it somewhere over the Christmas season and sometime in the spring. Spring 2017 was the one I looked long and hard at.

I'm a nutcase about container sizes, and 4.4 L and 4.4 L + 1 L are both kind of obnoxious when it comes to my sump size. 4 L Delvac 1 containers weren't exactly a picnic either. My American Rotella 3.785 L containers are a bit of a pain, but Shell sent me a total amount that divides up very nicely, with no leftovers in the end, and the Canadian size is 5 L, which is just about perfect.

Now, in answer to your original question, and with things not being exactly equal, and that being the point, I have (and will) by based upon container size. As it stands right now, the Pennzoil and Quaker State 5 litre (or 4.73 L WM specials) are conveniently sized. If I had a 4.4 L or 4.5 L sump with no oil consumption, both Imperial Oil and Wakefield market containers that size. Now, why Wakefield has black bottle Castrol in 5 L jugs and gold bottle Castrol in 4.4 L jugs, I'll never know.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: All things equal...Mobil 1 versus pennzoil [Re: Gokhan] #4838672
08/13/18 01:38 AM
08/13/18 01:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 27,776
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 27,776
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
* Genuine Nissan has the best base oil (GTL), very cheap on eBay, but lacks moly and Mg (it's non-dexos1-Gen-2)

For the sake of interest, not even sure it exists up here. Mobil simply provides service fill for all Infiniti/Nissan dealers, using actual Mobil branded product. How long the Renault Group will continue down the path with Mobil is another matter altogether.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: All things equal...Mobil 1 versus pennzoil [Re: HKPolice] #4838690
08/13/18 02:33 AM
08/13/18 02:33 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,852
Houston, TX
2015_PSD Offline
2015_PSD  Offline

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,852
Houston, TX
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Originally Posted By: irv
Good luck, 2015PSD, he's got logic backing this up.
Prove me wrong. crackmeup coffee
Unfortunately for you there far too much anecdotal evidence that speaks to what you are trying to say--that constantly changing oil brands causes increased wear. In your case, you need to prove that you are right, not that everyone else is wrong.

As I said the military changes oil brands with every contract and they are harder on and run their equipment far longer than any of us. Combine that with the BITOG faithful who do the same without increased wear and the anecdotal evidence continues. How are you measuring that increased wear anyway?

Show me the data supporting your conclusion and I will be happy to say I am wrong.


2018 Mercedes Benz AMG GLC43 3.0L Bi-Turbo [Castrol Edge 0W-40 & MB (Purflux) filter]
2018 Mercedes Benz C300 2.0L Turbo [Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40 & Mann filter]
Re: All things equal...Mobil 1 versus pennzoil [Re: Garak] #4838691
08/13/18 02:40 AM
08/13/18 02:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,442
Los Angeles, California
Gokhan Offline
Gokhan  Offline

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,442
Los Angeles, California
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
* Genuine Nissan has the best base oil (GTL), very cheap on eBay, but lacks moly and Mg (it's non-dexos1-Gen-2)

For the sake of interest, not even sure it exists up here. Mobil simply provides service fill for all Infiniti/Nissan dealers, using actual Mobil branded product. How long the Renault Group will continue down the path with Mobil is another matter altogether.

Of course, Genuine Nissan Motor Oil is made by ExxonMobil.

I just looked up the Mobil Super Synthetic 0W-20 MSDS: Very similar to Nissan Genuine Motor Oil, except 50 - 60% GTL claimed vs. 60 - 70% claimed, respectively.

Now, given how unreliable these MSDS's are and having the flexibility of changing the base oil on the run while conforming to the API base-oil interchangeability guidelines, Mobil Super Synthetic and Nissan Genuine can be more or less the same oil, especially with the add packs being similar (no moly but titanium).

Then, the formulations keep changing every year...

Nevertheless, it's great that GTL is now finding its way into the budget oils, making them outperform the performance oils.


1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 276,000 M
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20 SN PLUS (PAO-and-AN-based)
Fram Ultra XG3600 filter (full synthetic), 90430-12031 drain gasket (rubber on aluminum)
Re: All things equal...Mobil 1 versus pennzoil [Re: Gokhan] #4838692
08/13/18 02:47 AM
08/13/18 02:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,852
Houston, TX
2015_PSD Offline
2015_PSD  Offline

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,852
Houston, TX
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Nevertheless, it's great that GTL is now finding its way into the budget oils, making them outperform the performance oils.
Based upon what and using what test criteria?


2018 Mercedes Benz AMG GLC43 3.0L Bi-Turbo [Castrol Edge 0W-40 & MB (Purflux) filter]
2018 Mercedes Benz C300 2.0L Turbo [Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40 & Mann filter]
Re: All things equal...Mobil 1 versus pennzoil [Re: Gokhan] #4838699
08/13/18 03:58 AM
08/13/18 03:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,181
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,181
'Stralia
Originally Posted By: Gokhan

I just looked up the Mobil Super Synthetic 0W-20 MSDS: Very similar to Nissan Genuine Motor Oil, except 50 - 60% GTL claimed vs. 60 - 70% claimed, respectively.

Now, given how unreliable these MSDS's are and having the flexibility of changing the base oil on the run while conforming to the API base-oil interchangeability guidelines, Mobil Super Synthetic and Nissan Genuine can be more or less the same oil, especially with the add packs being similar (no moly but titanium).


So it's the differences that make them more likely to be the same.

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Nevertheless, it's great that GTL is now finding its way into the budget oils, making them outperform the performance oils.


Outperform in what way ?
API, SAE and OEM performance testing ?

or BOQI ?

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
* Pennzoil Platinum "PurePlus" GTL-containing oil was easily beaten by three-other no-ad GTL-containing oils, meaning the latter oils may have more or better GTL


I take this to mean that the oils were basestock blends sans additive pack...

Re: All things equal...Mobil 1 versus pennzoil [Re: BTLew81] #4838707
08/13/18 04:19 AM
08/13/18 04:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,999
Manchester, England
Olas Offline
Olas  Offline

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,999
Manchester, England
Originally Posted By: BTLew81
Deciding between these two lines for my new accord 2.0t. Either in 0w20, 5w30, or the mobil1 are 0w30. Probably stepping up to a 30. All things equal, is there any advantage either holds? Both dexos gen 2, which I want.

Thanks in advance.


All things being equal, they'll be exactly the same. You would notice differences in performance if there were differences between the fluids but if all things are equal there can be no differences..


Cable ties should hold it
Re: All things equal...Mobil 1 versus pennzoil [Re: Gokhan] #4838725
08/13/18 05:03 AM
08/13/18 05:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 27,776
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 27,776
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Of course, Genuine Nissan Motor Oil is made by ExxonMobil.

Yes, but I'm not sure how long that will last.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: All things equal...Mobil 1 versus pennzoil [Re: BTLew81] #4838743
08/13/18 05:59 AM
08/13/18 05:59 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,935
Kendall, FL
wemay Online happy
wemay  Online Happy

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,935
Kendall, FL
All things being equal? Here's a certifiable genuine reason for my preference...

-Mobil1 uses aluminum seals (big plus for me)
-SOPUS? Nope

The oils themselves are terrific from both companies.


2018 KIA Sportage LX 2.4 AWD:
Now:QSAD 5W-20, PH9688
Next: VSB 5W-30, COS3593A

2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T:
Now: PP 5W-30, OE
Next: M1HM 10W-30, PH9688
Re: All things equal...Mobil 1 versus pennzoil [Re: BTLew81] #4838744
08/13/18 06:00 AM
08/13/18 06:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 408
The low country, SC
RyanY Online content
RyanY  Online Content

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 408
The low country, SC
My $.02

I realize that sound levels may not be good indicators of anything important, but i base my oil selection on how the engine sounds and whether it uses oil.

Penn and Mobil oils will meet your engine requirements, so pick a brand and try it. Note how your engine sounds right after the OC (at startup and at temp), as well as about 3-4k later. Note whether the engine uses any oil during the OCI. After 5k miles try the other brand. Note the same things for this oil. Use a dB meter if you want to be more objective, but I dont bother. At that point you can decide between Penn or Mobil, or try another brand. My results are below.

Cadillac (5w30)
Mobil 1 and Royal Purple worked fine but Pennzoil Platinum made it run quieter than RP or Mobil. Used a lot of oil for all three brands. PennPlat High Mileage dramatically reduced oil consumption (from 1 qt/1k to .5 qt/3k). Therefore, PPHM is the best oil I have tried in this car, based on qualitative sound levels and oil consumption.

Odyssey (0w20)
Pennzoil Platinum and Valvoline syn+Maxlife were quieter than Mobil 1 or Royal Purple. This engine did not use any oil with any of these brands. Therefore, PennPlat and Valv syn HM are the best i have tried in this car, based on qualitative sound levels.


2007 Cadillac CTS 3.6L >123k miles (Valvoline synthetic HM + ACDelco PF2129G; Maxlife ATF)

2012 Honda Odyssey EX-L >99k miles (Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 + STP XL; Pennzoil Platinum LV ATF)
Re: All things equal...Mobil 1 versus pennzoil [Re: RyanY] #4838841
08/13/18 09:01 AM
08/13/18 09:01 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,957
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
irv Offline
irv  Offline

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,957
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Originally Posted By: RyanY
My $.02

I realize that sound levels may not be good indicators of anything important, but i base my oil selection on how the engine sounds and whether it uses oil.

Penn and Mobil oils will meet your engine requirements, so pick a brand and try it. Note how your engine sounds right after the OC (at startup and at temp), as well as about 3-4k later. Note whether the engine uses any oil during the OCI. After 5k miles try the other brand. Note the same things for this oil. Use a dB meter if you want to be more objective, but I dont bother. At that point you can decide between Penn or Mobil, or try another brand. My results are below.

Cadillac (5w30)
Mobil 1 and Royal Purple worked fine but Pennzoil Platinum made it run quieter than RP or Mobil. Used a lot of oil for all three brands. PennPlat High Mileage dramatically reduced oil consumption (from 1 qt/1k to .5 qt/3k). Therefore, PPHM is the best oil I have tried in this car, based on qualitative sound levels and oil consumption.

Odyssey (0w20)
Pennzoil Platinum and Valvoline syn+Maxlife were quieter than Mobil 1 or Royal Purple. This engine did not use any oil with any of these brands. Therefore, PennPlat and Valv syn HM are the best i have tried in this car, based on qualitative sound levels.


I found the same thing, Ryan, when I switched to Pennzoil. Of course, from a few on here, I've been told I have rocks in my head but those were my findings nonetheless.

I also found, when researching UOAs and VOAs, the the majority of UOAs I read where Mobil oils were being used had, on average higher wear metals in their UOAs compared to Pennzoil.

I don't know about you, but it just makes sense to me. Quieter running engine = lower wear metal counts and noisier running engines = increased/higher wear metal counts?

I know some on here say wear metal counts mean nothing but I find it humorous, when reading UOAs from various companies, all comment on wear metal levels whether good or bad. I wonder why that is if they don't mean anything? shrug

Also, since I am just hack/hater, supposedly, and not being one to get into all the data, info, scientific whatever, which is inconclusive and unreliable most times it seems, these are just the things I go by/use when making my oil purchase decisions.


2017 Chevy Impala 3.6 L.
2013 Ram 5.7 L Hemi Bighorn QC 4x4
2008 Chevy Malibu 2.4 L Ecotec
Pennzoil Platinum and/or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum in all 3.
Re: All things equal...Mobil 1 versus pennzoil [Re: wemay] #4838846
08/13/18 09:11 AM
08/13/18 09:11 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 10,017
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 10,017
...
Originally Posted By: wemay
All things being equal? Here's a certifiable genuine reason for my preference...

-Mobil1 uses aluminum seals (big plus for me)
-SOPUS? Nope

The oils themselves are terrific from both companies.




Good point. I will not buy a oil without a seal. Too many two legged varmints out there.


2017 Mazda CX5
Havoline Pro DS 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: All things equal...Mobil 1 versus pennzoil [Re: irv] #4838847
08/13/18 09:11 AM
08/13/18 09:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,852
Houston, TX
2015_PSD Offline
2015_PSD  Offline

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,852
Houston, TX
Originally Posted By: irv
I know some on here say wear metal counts mean nothing but I find it humorous, when reading UOAs from various companies, all comment on wear metal levels whether good or bad. I wonder why that is if they don't mean anything? shrug
Definitely not beating you up, but consider this--when you dump the factory fill is there not lots of metal that sparkles in the sunlight? I have to think that you would agree, but have you seen the UOAs for FF?

No way the PPM count is high enough to reflect the count of metal that is in the oil. Why? Most of the metal is outside the range a UOA can capture (either smaller or larger). This is one if the main reasons that UOAs cannot be used to predict wear. I personally have not seen higher wear metals using M1 versus Pennzoil. Look for my UOAs on my 2010 FX4 and you will see what I mean. Of course, YMMV!


2018 Mercedes Benz AMG GLC43 3.0L Bi-Turbo [Castrol Edge 0W-40 & MB (Purflux) filter]
2018 Mercedes Benz C300 2.0L Turbo [Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40 & Mann filter]
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